Syrian Reformers Increasingly Agree that EU-Syrian Association Agreement Should be Signed

A consensus has been developing among Syria opposition and reform leaders that the EU-Syria Association Agreement that has been on hold since 2004 should be signed. They believe that Syria’s economic opening will lead to greater social liberalism and openness as well. This is the path that the West has pursued with success in China and in Asia more generally. Many argue that intimidation has not worked, so why not try engagement.

The EU-Syrian Association Agreement would encourage various forms of cooperation between the EU and Syria, in particular it would ease tariffs to promote foreign trade and boost investment in industry, tourism and Syria’s financial institutions. But it would also open up cooperation in the arts and less obviously economic spheres of society. Greater economic growth and the expansion of elites and a middle class can only help push forward reform, just at it will surely pull down the walls of mistrust and fear that divide Europe and Syria. Syria’s opposition leaders, disappointed by the failures of the Bush years, are ready for a new strategy of change – one that is not based on intimidation and threats but on the pressure that comes from cooperation, friendship and mutual interest built of positive reinforcement.

In 2004 the progress of the Association Agreement came to a halt when language pertaining to weapons of mass destruction was added to the draft agreement. The Hariri murder in February 2005 gave the coup de grace to the process. Recent understandings between Syria and Lebanon have revived the urgency of getting the agreement back on track. In December 2008 an amended draft of the agreement was initialed, but it remains to be signed by all members of the EU.

Supporters of the process point to the efforts Syria has made in cooperating with European countries to work out a compromise on Lebanon that has permitted the election of a president, the smooth unfolding of parliamentary elections a few weeks ago with no Syrian interference, and a steady increase in Iraqi stability which has been accompanied by a decline in the numbers of recorded infiltrators making their way across the Syrian-Iraqi border.

Syria has also been helping the West in Palestine and looking for openings for itself to negotiate a final peace with Israel. Damascus has pushed for understanding between the PLO and Hamas in Palestine. Only today Abbas was in Damascus to discuss Palestinian unity with President  Assad.

Much of this progress between Syria and the West has come about because of President Sarkozy’s bold initiative in breaking with his predecessor’s policy of isolating Syria a year ago. The Doha agreement of May 21, 2008, in which Sarkozy played a key role, was a watershed. Damascus responded positively to promises of cooperation and the political paralysis which had characterized Lebanese affairs for three years ended. Almost immediately Syria and Israel announced the resumption of peace negotiations with Turkey acting as a mediator. President Obama has capitalized on this spirit of compromise which has convinced authorities in Damascus that change can be real. President Assad is eager to push forward with cooperation.

EU External Relations Commissioner Benita Ferrero-Waldner stated last week during a visit to Syria that the EU-Syria association agreement, which was initialed on 14 December 2008, will be signed in the current year. Mr Dardari said that the agreement was due to be signed in the first half of 2009, but the signatures have not all come in yet. It would be a shame if new restrictive language is added at the last minute that could derail the final signing of the agreement. It is time for a new way forward.

Comments (146)


Chris said:

An EU-Syria association agreement has been discussed, with few results, for years. Given the track record of Syria being able to clinch an agreement with the EU, I don’t expect much to result. In 2004, the EU came close to implementing an association agreement with Syria, but in the end it didn’t happen. Seeing as not much has changed in Syria since then, I wouldn’t be too confident that the EU will determine that it ought to improve its relations with Syria at this point.

At the end of the Josh’s piece we get what is becoming vintage Bashar. The dictator in Damascus uses events outside Syria and completely unrelated to the crimes perpetrated by the regime to justify its repression. Here’s our case in poin, ““ Talking about values has no credibility any more. And after what happened in Gaza they have no right [to criticise us] at all.”

June 20th, 2009, 8:33 pm

 

Amir in Tel Aviv said:

“…Respectable and intelligent people of SYRIA,

These nights and days, a pivotal moment in our history is taking place. People ask each other: “what should we do?, which way should we go?”.

Read the rest here:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/06/mousavis-latest-statement-i-followed-them.html
.

June 20th, 2009, 9:53 pm

 

Majid said:

I’m sure Norman will not keep silent for long while someone insults the intelligence of the people of Syria. Are you listening, Norman?

June 21st, 2009, 12:06 am

 

norman said:

Majid,

Look who is insulting us , The Zionist,

((( wa iza atatka Mazamaty min nakisn hya dalil ala ini kamilon .))

That is the closest i can write.

you should be there to defend me and us , at least that is what i expected from you.

June 21st, 2009, 1:58 am

 

norman said:

Majid and others , this is for you,

ANALYSIS / Assad no longer stands in his father’s shadow

By Yoav Stern, Haaretz Correspondent

Tags: Hafez Assad, Syria

There are large billboards on the road leading to Damascus from the Jordanian border. Once they featured portraits of former Syrian president Hafez Assad. Even after his death, he continued to exist on the billboards, alongside his two sons, Basil (who died before him) and Bashar, who was appointed president in his place. Today Bashar alone is on the billboards. The new “lion of Damascus” no longer stands in anyone’s shadow.

This month marks the ninth anniversary of Hafez Assad’s death. Next month will mark nine years of Bashar’s tenure. A different Syria and a different Assad. The young man (34 years old at the time) who lacked confidence and experience has become an experienced president with tested ability to overcome crises and even to be strengthened by them. The Ibn Khaldun Center for Development Studies in Cairo recently awarded him the title of “the most popular leader” in the Middle East.

Prof. David Lesch, a Middle Eastern scholar at Trinity University in San Antonio, Texas and the author of “The New Lion of Damascus: Bashar al-Assad and Modern Syria,” visited here last week. At the Moshe Dayan Center for Middle Eastern and African Studies at Tel Aviv University he related an incident he witnessed at the Damascus Opera House (which is named after Bashar’s father). At the end of the performance Bashar and his wife Asma held a reception. They stood in the large square outside, and the audience leaving the hall found itself facing the presidential couple. To help the audience overcome their embarrassment, the ushers took action and simply pushed those present toward the couple. A handshake, a smile, a glance, a short conversation. It’s important for their image.
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Lesch sees this incident as an example of the way in which Bashar Assad establishes his rule in Damascus. No longer is there the distance his father favored, no more residence in the military ivory tower. The president and his wife are said to go out, by private car, to eat in a restaurant or a cafe. That did, in fact, happen once or twice, far less often than the Syrians tend to talk about.

In an interview with Haaretz Lesch said Assad had “clearly evolved as a leader. When I first met with him in 2004, he was still a bit unsure. He was not totally in control domestically.”

At the time, said Lesch, Assad had limited knowledge of the Arab-Israeli conflict and lacked basic information about U.S. foreign policy. Meetings with him were held in the presence of advisers and interpreters, who made sure he would not blurt out anything stupid. Now during meetings with interviewers, Assad sits by himself, relaxed.

The turning point that Lesch saw was the election of 2007, when he was “re-elected’ in a referendum. The word “elected” does not quite fit the procedure in which the citizens of Syria can say “yes” or “no” to the continued tenure of the president. To ensure the outcome, the answer is written in sight of everyone in the room where the ballot box is located.

In those days Assad was recovering from two major crises: the murder of Lebanese prime minister Rafik Hariri and the Second Lebanon War. Hariri’s murder forced the Syrians to withdraw its forces from Lebanon. A Syrian friend of Lesch told him: “We lost Beirut at the time, but we gained Damascus,” because as a result of the crisis, Assad strengthened his hold in the corridors of power and ousted those who did not accept his policy. A year later, in 2006, Syria turned out to be one of the big winners of the Second Lebanon War. Assad was euphoric. His tough policy, his opposition to the American occupation in Iraq and the price he had paid for that in international isolation – all increased his popularity. In Damascus, people took to the city squares and cheered their president.

The 2007 elections were accompanied by demonstrations of support organized by the regime, and yet, said Lesch, they contained a degree of authenticity. Assad went out on the balcony of the modest house that serves as the presidential residence, pointed to families who were standing in the street and cheering him and hosted them for a few minutes on his balcony.

“I met with him just after he was elected,” said Lesch, “and for the first time I really saw in him this level of self-satisfaction that I hadn’t seen before. He has always been very modest and humble, self-deprecating even. This time he was … in a cathartic expression of gratification that the people really liked him.”

The meetings with Assad also provided Lesch with a rare glimpse into the manner in which the regime is run. “It is very interesting to see him work around the system,” said Lesch. Assad once said to him, for example: “You know, I’ve signed 1,000 decrees, only four were implemented. Many times I have to work around the system to get anything done.”

Assad is aware of the corruption and the opposition to change,” and according to Lesch “it’s very frustrating for him over the years to get any kind of serious reform.” He knows that changes that go too far are liable to lose him the support of those who benefit from the corruption and from the existing situation. Lesch said that once, in a conversation about a project in which he is involved in Syria, “Bashar leaned over to me and said, ‘How can we do this? We need to implement this. How do we get around these groups?'”

Assad is leading a policy of rapprochement with Israel, and Lesch said that “since it was the first time [he was] doing this, he cannot afford to fail. He has made his decision and he has an array of people around him who agree with him in terms of the idea of the negotiations with Israel. This is still a strategic choice. But there are elements who do not agree with this. This indicates to me that Bashar feels he has one shot at this, and he’d better get it right or he’ll be forced to retrench from this foreign policy path he’d like to follow.”

That’s why, said Lesch, the president will agree to direct talks with Israel only if there is a good chance they will succeed.

Lesch described the atmosphere in Damascus as “sour.” U.S. President Barack Obama did not mention Syria in his policy speech in Cairo. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu asked only to visit Damascus. In the wake of the speech, the Syrian press agency issued an official statement to the effect that Syria saw it as proof of “an absence of genuine Israeli desire to make peace in the region.”

The West is still suspicious of the Syrian regime. The transfer of weapons to Hezbollah continues, and Hamas receives refuge in Damascus. Iran is a strategic ally. Is Bashar secretly promoting a nuclear program? Bashar denies it, Lesch doesn’t know.

He quotes Assad as saying “that would be monumentally stupid for the Syrians to do, to develop a nuclear capability … history is full of regimes who made monumentally stupid decisions.”

When it comes to internal Syrian affairs Assad projects greater confidence. He is not paying a price for imprisoning human rights activists, there is no real threat to his regime and the opposition in exile is of no real importance. In the area of foreign relations he has not succeeded in totally breaking out of the isolation imposed on him years ago. He just went with his wife to the Republic of Georgia and earlier visited Qatar and France. His schedule is fuller than in the past, and he entertains many diplomats and foreign ministers who come to Damascus. But that is not enough. Assad is disturbed mainly by the continued coldness of the U.S. administration.

June 21st, 2009, 2:27 am

 

majid said:

I knew you wouldn’t disappoint me and others, Norman.

Is this what you wanted to say?

واذا اتتك مذمّتي من ناقصٍ
فهي دليل على انّي كامل

I couldn’t say it any better. But I’ll render it to English:

“If I were to be insulted by he who is a known fool,
then that is a proof of my wisdom.”

June 21st, 2009, 3:25 am

 

norman said:

Majid,

Yes , The Arabic version is more beautiful,
Thank you.

June 21st, 2009, 3:30 am

 

Shami said:

Her name was Neda.

June 21st, 2009, 3:57 am

 

offended said:

Dear Norman, the actual like is:

و إذا أتتك مذمتي من ناقص ……. فهي الشهادة لي بأني كامل

June 21st, 2009, 5:05 am

 

norman said:

Offended ,

you are absolutely right , i remember it as you wrote it.

June 21st, 2009, 5:17 am

 
 

ghassan said:

What is the opinion of Syrians on what is going on in Iran?

Do you think that if the green revolution was successful, other countries will not be immune when the government declares that 99.9% voted for the current president?

June 21st, 2009, 10:04 am

 

VexedLevantine said:

wasn’t it speculated that once Iraq falls, there would be a domino effect in the region?
Real change has to come from within not from events taking place in Iran, Iraq or Mogadishu. If the green revolution survives, Assad will probably congratulate Mousavi.

June 21st, 2009, 10:34 am

 

t_desco said:

Draw offer rejected?

Rafsanjani’s daughter, other relatives arrested in Iran
DPA

BTW, did Larijani really refer to “a majority of Iranians” (“a majority of people are of the opinion that the actual election results are different than what was officially announced.”) in his comments or just to “a majority of those protesting” (“We must separate those who have burnt people’s shops in the streets and harmed the police and Basij forces, who are the guardians of the country, from the critics of the election results.”)?

June 21st, 2009, 11:20 am

 

Shami said:

T DESCO ,i’m near to believe that the rupture is now a fact.
Musawi is more and more defiant and nearly called Khamainei a liar ,has he really reverted as the famous filmmaker Mohsen Makhmalbaf believes ?
This revolution inside Iran would have positive outcome on the people of the region,for this reason Israel seems to be the strongest supporter of Khamainei and this is not the first paradox of its kind.

June 21st, 2009, 11:29 am

 

norman said:

Where Syria stands,

Syria says Iran elections internal affair

2009-06-21 12:19:02 –

DAMASCUS, Syria (AP) – Iran’s regional ally Syria says the Persian country’s disputed elections were an internal affair.
The state-run Al-Thawra newspaper also says it would very difficult if not impossible to «break» the Iranian regime. Sunday’s editorial in Al-Thawra marked the first Syrian comment to the political upheaval in Iran.
Key Arab nations have so far kept silent on developments in Iran, seemingly reluctant to antagonize the powerful nation that sponsors militant groups like Hezbollah and Hamas.
Al-Thawra described Iran as a cornerstone in the region’s security and said the elections were «democratic» regardless of the outcome.
Iran has been wracked by violence since President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was declared winner of the June 12 election.

June 21st, 2009, 12:50 pm

 

Akbar Palace said:

He quotes Assad as saying “that would be monumentally stupid for the Syrians to do, to develop a nuclear capability … history is full of regimes who made monumentally stupid decisions.”

I wish you guys could find some other hebrew news outlet to quote from. As you can see from the quote above, they’re just a step above “comic book” level.

June 21st, 2009, 2:05 pm

 

norman said:

This is equal rights in Israel.

Print | Close this window

Israel Druze protest against “state discrimination”
Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:06am EDT
JERUSALEM, June 21 (Reuters) – Several hundred Druze demonstrators clashed with police outside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s office during a protest on Sunday against what they said was state discrimination against their community.

Demonstrators hurled eggs, sticks and bottles at riot police. Police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld said two policemen and several protesters were injured in the violence.

Druze community leaders say that state funding for their villages falls short of allocations for Jewish communities in Israel. A statement issued by Netanyahu’s office said he later met with some of the protest leaders.

Druze men are conscripted into Israel’s military and the native Arabic speakers are a prominent force in the paramilitary border police, often at the front line of confrontations with Palestinians. The Druze religion is an offshoot of Islam.

“Our soldiers serve at the front but there’s no state support at home” read one of the placards.

More than 100,000 Druze live in Israel and another 18,000 live in the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights, territory captured from Syria in the 1967 Middle East war. (Writing by Ori Lewis; Editing by Louise Ireland)

© Thomson Reuters 2009. All rights reserved. Users may download and print extracts of content from this website for their own personal and non-commercial use only. Republication or redistribution of Thomson Reuters content, including by framing or similar means, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Thomson Reuters. Thomson Reuters and its logo are registered trademarks or trademarks of the Thomson Reuters group of companies around the world.

Thomson Reuters journalists are subject to an Editorial Handbook which requires fair presentation and disclosure of relevant interests.

June 21st, 2009, 3:04 pm

 

majedkhaldoun said:

What is happening in Iran will sure weaken the Iranian regime,Syria is ally of Iran, what kind of effect this will have on Syria?
Should all arabic regimes be afraid of people anger,all dictators fear one thing,demonstrations demanding freedom,is this a result of Obama speech,if it is, it would be a stroke of genuis by Obama.
The Arab through out history are known to be passive.we will just watch,wait for others to determine our fate.

June 21st, 2009, 4:58 pm

 

Amir in Tel Aviv said:

Insult? .. what insult? … why insult?

Why do Arabs always have to feel as they are victims of.. something.?
I was hoping that with E. Said passing, so will the self-orientalism
of his followers.

Insult ( for me ), would have been living under a dictator,
and watching on TV others who call “death to (their) dictator”.
…And do nothing. That is the meaning of ‘Insult’.
.

June 21st, 2009, 5:30 pm

 

norman said:

Amir,

(( Why do Arabs always have to feel as they are victims of.. something.?)))

Because they are semitics , don’t you always remind us that the Jews are the victims on antisemitism ,

They are the same .They both cry and blame everybody else except themselves.

June 21st, 2009, 6:56 pm

 

majid said:

Norman,
You forgot to mention that when a zionist tells an Arab what is in the Arab’s interests then the zionist is insulting the Arab.

The arrogant presumption of an enemy (the zionist) in this case cannot be overlooked, and the presumptuous zionist must be told so in order that he would know exactly where he stands vis-a-vis the Arab, so that next time the zionist would keep his mouth shut.

June 21st, 2009, 7:31 pm

 

Amir in Tel Aviv said:

MAJID,

No.! It isn’t the “Zionist” interest.
The Zionist’s interest would be: Arabs continue to be roles by corrupt
dictators. Because otherwise, entities like MB, Hamas and HZB might
rise ( democratically ), instead of those dictators.
But believe it or not, I’m ready take this chance.

NORMAN,

There’s something in what you say.
The difference is that Jews’s blame splits: 90% self : 10% others.
The Arab’s blame: 100% others : 0% self.
.

June 21st, 2009, 8:10 pm

 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

This place used to harbor commentators of all stripes, backgrounds and opinions before Majid started oppressing and monopolizing discussion here. Interestingly enough people have accepted the shift that happened and simply disappeared from here. Compare the treatment that Majid *doesn’t* receive to that which AIG received, when he voiced opinions that were unpleasant to many here, but conveyed them in a much more respectful manner. I guess we got to see in real-life how alignment with the most radical views (infantile too) happens naturally in the Arab world. Thanks for the demonstration.

June 21st, 2009, 8:54 pm

 

chris said:

Amir,

You wrote:
“The Arab’s blame: 100% others : 0% self.”
This is an interesting point. I’m not sure what the reason is, but I see very little self-criticism in the Arab world. I hear a lot of pride, but little introspection as to what role Arabs themselves have to play in the current state of the Arab world.

June 21st, 2009, 8:55 pm

 

Akbar Palace said:

I hear a lot of pride, but little introspection as to what role Arabs themselves have to play in the current state of the Arab world.

Chris,

Come to think of it, I haven’t seen any Lebanese or Syrian poster constantly put the blame on their own home country for the failure of the Arab-Israeli conflict like Shai does.

June 21st, 2009, 9:30 pm

 

majid said:

An Important Advice on Manners and Ethics to Arab Contributors to this Blog.

At the risk of getting labeled without manners, you should be careful not to antagonize certain zionists who have assigned to themselves the ‘noble’ task of educating you on how to find your way and what to do and where to go after you lost your way in this world (see comment 2).

If you happen to raise your voice and express your displeasure at such pretenders who seem to know your interests better than you do yourself, you may get labeled infantile. So you may do well, dear Arabs, to keep your mouths shut so that the zionist may fulfill his ‘noble’ mission of training you and showing you the intricate benefits of democratic life. In the meantime time, don’t even attempt to mention that Arab land in Palestine is being expropriated to the benefits of this homeless zionist lest you should be labeled a radical (see comment 24).

Let’s look at it from a different point of view. You guys (Arabs) have an old house. The poor homeless zionist is making you an offer to paint and decorate your ‘backward’ house at the cost of you having to go and find another house in order to allow this poor homeless painter to enjoy the fruits of his labor. After all, what is life worth without ‘progress’ and few swirls of paint?

June 21st, 2009, 11:26 pm

 

norman said:

Yossi,

The reason that many are not writing is because you and Shai abandoned the site and put up your own shingle , QN did the same so now the house where all the children used to gather around one TV in the living room , now each has his own TV in his room and inviting freinds over ,so the way i see it , come back and participate in the debate.Where in the world is Alex , I Miss him , i still hope that he is having fun.

About Majid and there are many things I disagree with majid about but there is only one majid and there are Chris, AP , Amir and now you joined in,to tell how racist we are and that we should not try to get our rights , did you see wikipedia , now the Golan is a disputed territory not Syrian Occupied by Israel , what a joke , that people still think of peacfull return of our rights and they are our rights under international law , we just have to fight for them.

As you know we always blame our leaders at least the leaders of our old countries , you all on the other hand blame everything about the lack of progress on you insecurities and the holocaust , we do not elect our leader you do so what is your problem electing only racists who think that Israel is for the Jews only and the rest of the world for the Jews to be equal , sooner or later the Jews around the world will be treated as demanded by the people the way Israel treat it’s non Jewish population , so wake up and move to show the world that Israel really represent the humble Jews that we see in the West because like it or not these Jews in the West are going to be treated as Israel treat others and at that time you should not complain ,but blame your self only.

And yes that is my take.

June 22nd, 2009, 12:14 am

 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

Dear Norman,

Shai and I started our blog because we felt that we were taking over too much of the discussion here. We were also told that instead of engaging the Arab side we were better off engaging the Israelis, especially on the Palestinian issue, and I thought there was a lot of truth to this argument. Consequently I spend a lot of my time commenting in NRG, one of the main news sites in Israel, fighting off all sorts of fascists, but probably not getting anything meaningful achieved anyway.

As much as I disagree with the opinions of Chris, AP and Amir, I don’t remember that they suggested sending all the Muslims to Antarctica, or walling them off from the rest of humanity, which is a theme Majid is returning to every once in a while (with the target sometimes being all Jews and something “just zionists”), without anybody here making a peep.

As far as Israelis insecurities are concerned, blaming it on the holocaust is only half the story. The truth is that Arab behavior has a lot to do with these insecurities. I’m reading Ali Abunimah’s book now about the one-state solution and he notes that in order to advance this idea, the Palestinians must articulate a vision of a shared country, and explain to the Jews how it is possible to construct a mutual future in that country. Well the problem is that they never did articulate such a vision, quite the contrary (except for a few individuals such as Abunimah himself, Sari Nusseibeh and other marginalized academics). And let’s not forget that Syria has had a significant part in annihilationist rhetoric over the years, that how should I put this, hasn’t exactly inspired security. So how about owning up to some of that?

The laws about “Jewish Israel”, however much I object them, are not any different from what you’d find in the Egyptian, Jordanian and Palestinians constitutions. And none of them passed. So maybe congratulate Israel that it is finally starting to behave like it’s part of the neighborhood?

As far as the Jews of the world getting the blame for what Israel does, that wouldn’t surprise me at all, after all the Arab countries kicked out somewhere between half a million to a million Jews as a revenge for Zionism. MERIP has a good coverage of recent attempts to claim Jewish communal rights in Iraq http://www.merip.org/mer/mer248/fischbach.html. It’s interesting to note that there were fatwas issued requiring death to anybody selling to a Jew their previous property, or to a Jew trying to buy back their property. So it’s pretty safe to say that the Arab world hasn’t made much progress in owning up to the catastrophe it has inflicted on Arab Jews. So why do you expect Israelis to be better?

It would be great if you forget for a minute that this criticism comes from an “Israeli”. You should probably know that with my consideration of the one-state solution, I represent maybe 0.001 percent of the Jewish population in Israel. I am also quite removed from the scene, living in the US. And this is what I appreciated in the discussion here, that it was comprised of “technocrats” and ex-pats who were removed from the scene and could analyze the situation without the discussion going immediately to associating people with labels. e.g., I know that a knee jerk reaction would be to tell me “Gaza! So shut up”. Well what if I objected Gaza from the beginning and marched with Palestinians activists through the streets of my American city, decrying Israeli war crimes?! This blog represented an opportunity to examine issues at a less partisan level, let’s keep it this way.

Just my 0.02 Syrian Pound…

June 22nd, 2009, 2:09 am

 

norman said:

yossi,

The Jews who left , did not do that under pressure they did that in spite effort to prevent them from going to Israel, I do not have any objection to real Jews , (( Hebrew )) in going back and living in Israel as i think that my children should have the right to return to Syria one day to be treated as equal , you understand that equal not better and so should the Jews who coming back to live in Palestine , live as equal to the people who stayed and changed their religion to =Christianity and Islam to stay in the land , they should not be treated as second class citizens ,they should be able to build on their land and they should be protected from richer Jewish individuals who try to push them out by buying their land or by denying them the right to build or live where they find fit ,imagine if that is the case in the US and the EU , and Jews can not live in certain areas , the cry for antisemitism will be so loud that can be heard in the Mideast ,

What Israel is doing to the Palestinians is not seen since the Holocaust and the concentration camps of Germany ,

About Syria stand against Israel , Syria has not killed an Israeli since 1974 and how does Israel reward the most quite border , they deny Syria a peace treaty that will secure Israel’s border , what a stupidity , and if you look at the wars between Israel and Syria , Syria never attacked a civilian center in Israel even when Israel attacked Damascus in 1973 ,

If Israel does not return the Golan heights and as you know i belive only force will return the Golan then there will be war and another war and another war untill Israel loses and at that time May God help the Syrians have the wisdom of forgiveness so peace can be achieved .

June 22nd, 2009, 2:42 am

 
 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

Dear Norman,

With respect to your criticism of Israel’s undemocratic treatment of the Palestinians, you must know that I share your concern. I don’t know if Israel is “the worst since Germany”, I haven’t done a comparative study, but I don’t need to know how far high we rank in the list of racist countries is order to make me think about the situation day and night.

Now here is where you either don’t own up to reality or need to do some additional research:

>>> The Jews who left , did not do that under pressure…

My family left Iraq in 52 after mounting economic and social pressure. My grandfather lost most of his business as he was boycotted for being a Jew, and that made things tough already. What finally made them leave was nothing short of a blood libel. A Muslim neighbor, a women, accused my uncle (who was 9 at the time), that he gave her poisoned candy and was trying to incite neighbors to do a little Farhoud. My family was protected by their Armenian neighbors, but that was the last straw and they left after that.

A few days ago I had dinner with someone who’s dad left Syria in 57. He left after repetitive harassment from his neighbors.

The Jews in Morroco left after the government declared that it cannot guarantee their safety and they should better leave.

These are all documented and not hard to know. So Arab societies have committed horrible crimes against their citizens of the Jewish religion, using a process of guilt by association. please, wake up and start owning up where you need to. Otherwise you’re just exemplifying what has been said above about 0% introspection and accountability.

>>> About Syria stand against Israel , Syria has not killed an Israeli since 1974…

You must know my position on peace with Syria, I totally back that and think Israel should return the Golan, and I believe in the sincerity of the Syrian president. But saying that Israel hasn’t killed any Israeli is like saying that Israel has no responsibility for Sabra and Shateela. It’s true that the Syrian army hasn’t engaged in direct fighting against Israel (except for the skirmishes in Lebanon in 82), but Syria has waged war through proxies. I’m not making any moral judgment here, just stating the facts. There is a strong case for Israeli retreat from the Golan anyway, why do you need to augment reality in a manner that portrays Syria in a saintly manner and again exemplifies evading accountability?

June 22nd, 2009, 3:23 am

 

majid said:

One of the most arrogant attitudes of a so-called debater becomes apparent when he addresses an opponent but fails to address the issues that were raised by that opponent. Worse yet is when such a debater claims that his contributions have some value to a debate while his only objective is to put forward half truths and a distorted version of history.
You should compare Norman’s contribution in comment #28 with the next comment #29 presenting itself by its author as a response while it doesn’t address a single issue raised by Norman. One is left with the impression as expressed in this colloquial expression:”by7hkik bilshark bitrid bilgharb.”
This is the height of hypocrisy and arrogance of someone whose only aim is to hijack a discussion for the only purpose of presenting a well known agenda. If you spend the time and go through the pain of reading the useless link this pseudo-intellectual has provided in his comment, you would know that actually he did not intend to speak to Norman besides addressing him on the first of his long and useless comment. His message is clear and more sinister than even the most diehard zionist you may come across. He is equating the voluntary emigration of Arab Jews to Palestine in 1948 and afterwards to FORCED EXPULSION OF MILLIONS OF PALESTINIANS FROM THEIR HOMES FOLLOWED BY THE SYSTEMATIC DESTRUCTION OF THEIR VILLAGES BY INVADING THUGS OF ZIONISM!” It is now presented as a matter of mere shifting of demographics. There are no refugees. No home were destroyed. No land was stolen. Who would want to listen or even participate with such demagogue, expert falsifiers of history? What benefit does an Arab draw from engaging in a futile discussion with their likes?

Do you feel that he answered you Norman? Or did he just use your name to present a propaganda point of view?

I am at a loss however to understand why would a dispossessed people need to articulate a shared future with an invader? Is he serious or is this another attempt to sweep dust under the carpet?

To me, this is the ultimate delusion that a person (or people) would be engaged in after the well known delusion of so-called insecurity that routinely gets blamed on the rest of mankind.

And this is how the ‘poor’ Jews of the Arab World were shifted to Palestine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw1YoU98krA&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY4O9BXtdJs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgZr4Xdw2HU&feature=fvw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLK_x3pVnV0&feature=related

What a joke we’re invited to read by these so-called peace activists of invading thugs?

June 22nd, 2009, 3:33 am

 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

Majid,

Very briefly.

I have never equated the expulsion of the Palestinians to the harassment and tacit or explicit encouragement to leave that the Jewish Arabs were subjected to. There are many whose agenda is to do just that. Not me.

The Palestinians would elect to articulate a shared future with an invader in case they see it desirable to have such a future. (e.g, if they are sick of wars and wish to repeat the South African experience).

Look, I’m at the far fringes of leftist-post-Zionism, was born in Israel, originated from the Middle East (“Greater Syria”). If you can’t tolerate me, and if everybody here are OK with that, then I guess there really isn’t too much to talk about.

June 22nd, 2009, 3:46 am

 

majid said:

Even briefer,
There is no added value to engaging in a hollow debate with your likes whoever you are or wherever you were born.

June 22nd, 2009, 3:55 am

 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

I guess I’ll have to agree with that. Good-bye then. Another casualty of peace signs off.

Alex, let me know when/if you decide to clean house. I’ll be staying away till then.

June 22nd, 2009, 3:59 am

 

Off the Wall said:

Majid

I try not take things personal, but now I will.

You should have looked in the mirror before you wrote about hypocrisy and arrogance.

More than thirteen months ago, Shai chided his fellow Israeli for failing to recognize those willing engage in a productive dialog. and now I find myself in his position. Here is an Arab Jewish brother, who is willing to share a piece of his family’s history with us and who is willing to open bridges to his past, and who does real work, attends and organizes real protests, and talks and writes to real people trying to change the biased policy of his “third” attempt of a country towards better future for all and he gets nothing but contempt from you. I wonder if you know, or are capable of any other emotion.

I no longer care for a second whether some or all of what you say is correct or wrong. Nor do I care to engage with you in what you call discussion. I had chosen to ignore your smug advice to me a week ago, which you wrote in Arabic. But i can no longer ignore it as I see you showing uncalled for contempt to yet another fellow commentator on this site that I cherish as a place for open dialog and debate. Your Arabic advice told me all i needed to know, your language is no different that that of the dictators you proclaim to fight against. It was identical to an advice i heard from Baathists acquittance who did not like my association with kurds, it was identical to advices i heard from salafists who hated my association with Christians, and identical to the advice i got from communists friends, who did not like my association with friends who came from wealthy old families. It was identical to the advice I got from a few when I showed curtsy to a lonely Jewish student in my freshman year in college. It is the advice of those who can not tolerate diversity and those who have no concept of others.

A friend and a distinguished mentor of mine spent his childhood years in a concentration camp. He wrote a small book about his experience, and the lesson that stuck in my mind was his assertion that he has internalized a process by which he could discern collaborators. I guess, having lived in an Arab country, I can discern little and big dictators. And you, Mr. Mysterious Majid, are a little dictator.

June 22nd, 2009, 5:34 am

 

jad said:

Hi Yossi,
You are right that lots of people are away from here, but I would guess it was nothing more than being busy with some other work (that was my case) and it’s nothing to do with some crazy lunatics taking over SC, Arab as well as the Israeli&Americna.
Who cares, really? They were discussing the Lebanese and Iranian elections for a month now out of pure secularism point of view or out of trying to score some point against Syria and its undemocratic system, those two sides don’t give a damn about what people really want or how they can develop or if they want democracy with all its glory or not, that is not on their checklist at all.
Did you read any interesting comment by either AP, Chris, Amir or Majed, that worth answering, replying to or even think about for a sec? I doubt you will find any because they have nothing to share and nothing interesting to give except hatred and discrimination.
Every person here has his own agenda, the subjects they enjoy and like to discuss, they might agree with you one day or disagree the next it depends on their moods and times. Do you seriously care if Majed agree with you or the way he thinks, for him you are a Zionist and Occupier, and above all he believes in religious wars, he is not even trying to understand what you are writing, for him it’s worthless talking to you so why bother even talking to him?
He is as sick as AP&Co. and many people who don’t want to open their eyes to see, they prefer to stay in the dark of their own ideas and their own cells, they don’t want to go out to the sun, they are just sick, they need help. You are who you are they are who they are, so you need to leave it at that unless you want to join their cult and enjoy the dark. Would you?
Norman words were out of his passion and love to Syria and the free world, what he cares about is to see Syria free, advanced and wealthy.
He is as me. fed up of hearing the same repeated peace song over and over without getting the Jolan back, he is as fed up as me of Israeli prime ministers one after the other with their supporters doing tons of crime against innocent people without hearing a word of condemnation from the west world while we have to read lecture every morning about our backward corrupted governments and our lack or ‘democracy’ which should be as important as brining justice.
Norman’s views wasn’t because of your religion or you background or even you in person, It was a reflection of how we the Syrians feel and how much we are frustrated of Israel and its carelessness, its games and terrible human right records when it comes to Palestinians. In short, if you, Shai, Norman, Alex, OTW, Ford Perfect, and many other Syrians and Israelis gave up as easily as you did tonight, we’ve better join that ‘dark room’ cult I was talking about and burry our dreams and hopes for a better and brighter future.
I always mention the story of that Syrian women form Jolan who keeps trying to cross to Syria and the Israeli soldiers keep denying giving her the permit, the BBC reporter was shocked that she didn’t gave up and she will keep trying so he asked her, why you keep trying, her answer was something like “I can’t afford to lose my hope to go back to see home, Syria, otherwise there is no point of me to live”
Yossi,
if a simple Syrian woman under the Israeli occupation can’t afford to lose her hope how can bunch of free educated men afford to gave up. How?
Norman, And that is my take!

June 22nd, 2009, 6:14 am

 

offended said:

Dear Yossi,

This is the first time I’m hearing the story of your family. I’m really really sorry for what they went through. But I’m also glad that you didn’t end up holding grudges.

Peace.

June 22nd, 2009, 6:20 am

 

offended said:

“…your language is no different than that of the dictators you proclaim to fight against.…”

OTW, well-said, brother. Couldn’t agree more with you.

June 22nd, 2009, 6:31 am

 

jad said:

Offended afandi:
Which finger do you want to chose the index or the baby finger?
(try to translated that to children language to understand what I mean)
I was waiting your reply to my email for almost 8months now? WENO?

June 22nd, 2009, 6:40 am

 

t_desco said:

Guardian Council: Over 100% voted in 50 cities, but… there are no problems!

Now one can understand Larijani’s comments from yesterday.

One thing I don’t understand: call me old-fashioned, but why does the opposition not simply call for a general strike?

June 22nd, 2009, 6:50 am

 

offended said:

Dear Jad, apologies man. I’m guilty as charged. Will write today inshallah. : )

June 22nd, 2009, 6:51 am

 

jad said:

Dear Offended,
Glad that you choose the index finger 🙂
No worries I know that you are busy, I was just kidding, beside I exaggerated a little about the time it’s been couple days not 16months as I wrote earlier..
Have a great day my friend.

June 22nd, 2009, 6:57 am

 

Akbar Palace said:

I am at a loss however to understand why would a dispossessed people need to articulate a shared future with an invader?

Majid,

Your statement above is an excellent example of what I call the “typical arab rejectionist”. IMHO, this attitude is all too common in the Arab world and the reason peace has yet to be achieved.

OTW said to Majid:

Your Arabic advice told me all i needed to know, your language is no different that that of the dictators you proclaim to fight against.

I agree with that assessment.

Yossi and OTW,

Thank you for sharing your personal experiences.

You must know my position on peace with Syria, I totally back that and think Israel should return the Golan, and I believe in the sincerity of the Syrian president.

Yossi,

I think the GOI should give back the Golan if the Syrians offer a real peace. But right now, I don’t “believe” the Syrian president like you do. Why do you believe the Syrian president? Why doesn’t the Obama administration believe the Syrian president, but you do?

June 22nd, 2009, 11:05 am

 

Chris said:

There is an interesting conference at Cambridge University on the Jews of the Arab world ( http://www.woolfinstitute.cam.ac.uk/cmjr/conference/ ). It is taking place from June 22-24 under the patronage of Prince El Hassan Bin Talal and supported by the Royal Institute for Interfaith Studies in Amman.

The online flyer notes:
Conference shines new light on Arab Jews

18 June 2009

A major conference, to be opened by Prince Hassan bin Talal of Jordan next week, will shed new light on the underexplored subject of Arab Jews.

The Jews of Arab Culture: 1948-2009 conference, which takes place from 22-24 June, is being co-hosted by the University’s Department of Middle Eastern Studies and the Centre for the Study of Muslim-Jewish Relations of the Woolf Institute of Abrahamic Faiths.
Over the course of the 20th century, Arab Jews came to Israel from Arab countries ranging from Morocco to Iraq and now constitute more than 50% of Israel’s Jewish population. While the study of medieval and early modern Judaeo-Arabic culture and literature is a comparatively well established field in Western academia, the complex identity of the recent influx of Arab Jews to Israel and its impact on the culture of the Middle East has been little studied.

The conference will examine the cultural repercussions of the absorption process of Arab Jews by the State of Israel, the impact this has had on Arab Jewish literature, and the reactions which followed in Palestinian literature.

The conference, which will be held at Westcott House and will include internationally renowned academics, will be accompanied by the screening of various films and a concert of Jewish-Arab music played on the ‘Oud and Violine by Israel-Iraqi musician Yair Dalal, all of which are open to the public.

Professor Yasir Suleiman, Director of the Centre of Middle Eastern and Islamic Studies, said: “Arab Jews have historically been an important part of Arab culture well before the advent of Islam. In Arabia, Spain, Iraq, Egypt, and the Levant Jews have played an important role in creating a culture that belonged to all those for whom Arabic was a native language. The conference will tap into this past to challenge and repair some of the ruptures of the present by showing the richness and diversity of an inclusivist culture that belonged to all the communities that helped create it.”

Gregor Schwarb, Ariane de Rothschild Academic Director of the CMJR, said: “Showing the richness and dynamism of the culture of Jewish Arabs dispels the myth that there is a total divide between Arabs and Jews. In this way, we hope that the conference will contribute towards greater understanding, a spirit of reconciliation and a greater respect of differences”.

Research shows many Arab Jews look with affection and pride on their Arab heritage; others see themselves as “forgotten refugees”, whose cause is akin to that of Palestinian refugees. In a recent open letter, a group of prominent Israeli Jews whose parents came from Arab or Islamic lands wrote that “the culture of the lands of Islam, the culture of the Middle East, and the Arabic culture, are all part of our identity, a part of it that we cannot sever and wouldn’t wish to sever, even if we could.” They added: “The rift between Israel and the Arab and Muslim world cannot be a permanent one, since it splits our identities and our souls.” ( http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/dp/2009061801 )

June 22nd, 2009, 1:06 pm

 

Chris said:

There is a conference on the Jews of Arab Culture taking place at Cambridge University at the moment. It is taking place between June 22-24 under the patronage of Prince El Hassan Bin Talal and supported by the Royal Institute for Interfaith Studies in Amman.

The online flyer ( http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/dp/2009061801 ) notes that:
“Over the course of the 20th century, Arab Jews came to Israel from Arab countries ranging from Morocco to Iraq and now constitute more than 50% of Israel’s Jewish population. While the study of medieval and early modern Judaeo-Arabic culture and literature is a comparatively well established field in Western academia, the complex identity of the recent influx of Arab Jews to Israel and its impact on the culture of the Middle East has been little studied.

The conference will examine the cultural repercussions of the absorption process of Arab Jews by the State of Israel, the impact this has had on Arab Jewish literature, and the reactions which followed in Palestinian literature.”

It looks interesting, but I doubt you will hear of a presentation by an Arab speaker describing the antisemitism that Jews faced in Arab world prior to their flight to Israel. Just a wild guess.

June 22nd, 2009, 1:15 pm

 

majid said:

Wow, quite few people had something to divulge, not the least OTW – interesting morning to wake up into indeed.

I do not want to respond or get into a discussion on such trivial opinions, and that applies to you particularly, OTW. I see only two issues requiring clarification with you. Your so-called asasessment of me as a person is worthless since, I haven’t had the honor to meet you. The other issue is, yes, OTW the RIGHT OF RETURN is sacred to me and if that makes me a dictator according to you, then so be it. But I see now your qualifier: “I no longer care for a second whether some or all of what you say is correct or wrong.” So neither do I care for an even split of a second if anything you say is correct or wrong.

You’re welcome to use me as a subject in any of your comments. However, you’re going way too far by making personal assessments on someone you haven’t met.

June 22nd, 2009, 1:41 pm

 

chris said:

On the topic of Jews being pushed out of Arab countries: There is a conference on the Jews of Arab Culture taking place at Cambridge University at the moment. It is taking place between June 22-24 under the patronage of Prince El Hassan Bin Talal and supported by the Royal Institute for Interfaith Studies in Amman.

The online flyer ( http://www.admin.cam.ac.uk/news/dp/2009061801 ) notes that:
“Over the course of the 20th century, Arab Jews came to Israel from Arab countries ranging from Morocco to Iraq and now constitute more than 50% of Israel’s Jewish population. While the study of medieval and early modern Judaeo-Arabic culture and literature is a comparatively well established field in Western academia, the complex identity of the recent influx of Arab Jews to Israel and its impact on the culture of the Middle East has been little studied.

The conference will examine the cultural repercussions of the absorption process of Arab Jews by the State of Israel, the impact this has had on Arab Jewish literature, and the reactions which followed in Palestinian literature.”

It looks interesting, but I doubt you will hear of a presentation by an Arab speaker describing the antisemitism that Jews faced in Arab world prior to their flight to Israel. Just a wild guess.

June 22nd, 2009, 1:48 pm

 

Nour said:

Believe it or not Majid, I’m with you on this one.

OTW,

I have had a lot of disagreements with opinions expressed by Majid on this site, but I don’t see what was so offensive about his last post. He merely made the rightful argument that to compare between the voluntary departure of Jews from Arab countries to Palestine and the forceful ethnic cleansing of an entire population is ludicrous. I don’t understand why you took so much offense to that post.

June 22nd, 2009, 2:28 pm

 

norman said:

To all of you and to make it clear ,
my mother is a Palestinian who was born in Nazareth and she does not agree that her plight was the same as the Jews leaving Arab countries ,

I do not remember hearing about Massacres in Syria of the Jews , SO give me a break it is not the same , Israel has been occupying Arab land for the last 40 years and we still think that talking is going to get our rights back , that will not happen.

June 22nd, 2009, 3:20 pm

 

Akbar Palace said:

The truth of the matter is the number of Jews who were “kicked-out, pressured, forced, or simply chose to leave” (where have I heard these adjectives before?) Arab countries was approximately equal to the number of Arabs who left Israel in 1948!

The difference, of course, is that the mizrachi and sephardi Jews were eventually absorbed into Israeli society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands

I do not remember hearing about Massacres in Syria of the Jews , SO give me a break it is not the same…

Norman,

I’ll give you a break if you decide to do a little more research. A Google search is pretty easy to do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Syria

June 22nd, 2009, 3:56 pm

 

norman said:

AP ,

This is for you,

Although Jews are occasionally subjected to violence by Palestinian protesters in Syria[citation needed], the government has taken strict protective measures, including arresting assailants and guarding the remaining synagogues[citation needed]. Outside the Joab Ben Zeruyah Synagogue in Aleppo there is even a sign that reads “no dumping trash in front of this holy place of worship”.

According to the U.S. State Department, Jews still have a separate primary school for religious instruction on Judaism and are allowed to teach Hebrew in some schools[citation needed]. About a dozen students still attend the Jewish school, which had 500 students as recently as 1992. Jews are the only minority not allowed to participate in the political system[citation needed]. In addition, “the few remaining Jews are generally barred from government employment and do not have military service obligations.

[edit] References

June 22nd, 2009, 4:21 pm

 

t_desco said:

Of course, if you are not sure that you got more than 50% support in the country, calling for a general strike could prove disastrous.

There is actually a lot in Ahmadinejad’s economic policies that would make him popular, at least in the short term. One report from 2006 even spoke of an approval rating of 70%.

The point is, we really don’t know who won. Only a general strike could show how great the support for Mousavi really is.

June 22nd, 2009, 9:03 pm

 

Amir in Tel Aviv said:

YOSSI,

I do identify with you getting emotional about those issues. BUT,
I don’t think that excluding MAJID, or people who hold the same opinions,
is right.

What we Israelis would regard as ‘peace’ ( secured Israel living
safely among Arabs ) means ‘war’ to some people.
What they would regard as ‘peace’ ( no Israel. “Israelis” swimming
back to Europe ), means war to us.
So far, there’s no middle-way.
So it is essential to hear and to know what those who want the Arab
kind of ‘peace’, have to say.
Ignoring or excluding them isn’t the right way (in my eyes) to deal
with this conflict.
.

June 22nd, 2009, 9:46 pm

 

norman said:

This is to all of you who think like I do that Syria is the key to Mideast peace ,

Yossi , that is why Israel should seek peace with Syria,

Amir,

Why don’t you tell us your vision of peace.that we all can live with ,

Comments are welcomed ,

Time for a Damascus Agreement

By Sami Moubayed, Special to Gulf News
Published: June 22, 2009, 23:04

Over the past 40 years, various Arab politicians took up temporary residence in Damascus, fleeing chaos, mayhem and arrest in their respective countries. Many of them happen to be in top leadership posts in their countries today.

The list includes Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, Hamas leader Khalid Mesha’al, Islamic Jihad chief Ramadan Shallah, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Al Maliki, Iraqi President Jalal Talabani, Kurdistan President Masoud Barzani, Lebanese Parliament Speaker Nabih Berri and Druze leader Walid Junblatt.

Others spent time – either as full-time residents or temporary fugitives – in Iran. This list includes Hezbollah chief Hassan Nasrallah, Abdul Aziz Hakim of the Supreme Iraqi Islamic Council and former Iraqi prime minister Ebrahim Al Ja’afari.

Despite ups and downs in their relationships, all of the above-mentioned see Syria as a ‘second home’ and are open to opinions emanating from that country.

Syria is uniquely positioned to reach out and solve regional problems the way the Saudis and Qataris did with Lebanon in 1990 and 1998, and the way the Saudis and Egyptians have been doing with the Palestinians since 2004.

Palestinian talks since the Hamas seizure of Gaza in 2007 have repeatedly failed. If these talks were held in Syria, results could be achieved.

The Syrians have repeatedly said that they are willing to use their influence to bring about results in Palestinian dialogue. Although they play host to exiled Hamas leaders, the Syrians also have excellent relations with Mahmoud Abbas.

People tend to overlook this fact because relations were so bad with his predecessor, Yasser Arafat. Abbas – a graduate of Damascus University – is certainly closer to the Syrians than Hosni Mubarak ever was to the leadership of Hamas.

Back in 2006, Syria attempted to use its influence to get Hamas to accept a Cabinet of national unity in the Occupied Territories.

That initiative was spearheaded by Mousa Abu Marzouq from Damascus, and had Syria’s fingerprints all over it. After the latest war on Gaza, Syria urged the leadership of Hamas to participate in talks in Cairo, although Mesha’al was furious at the Egyptian stance on Gaza.

Syria, after all, is viewed as the only country that is still committed to Arab nationalism. It is the only Arab country that has not signed a peace treaty with Israel. Its cold war with the Bush administration in 2003-2008 only endeared it to men like Nasrallah and Mesha’al.

Simply put, both Hamas and Hezbollah listen to Syria. The same applies in Iraqi politics. Iraqi Sunnis look to Syria for protection, while Iraqi Shiites do not forget that Syria is the prime ally of Iran, and did them plenty of favours during the Saddam era.

The same also applies to top Kurdish leaders, who had homes in Damascus – and Syrian passports – during the Saddam years. Al Maliki was thrilled, for example, when the Syrians sent an ambassador to Baghdad in 2008, thereby legitimising his leadership in the eyes of Iraqi Sunnis.

It’s one thing when pro-US countries support a US-backed prime minister, but completely different when Syria does so.

Nobody is more aware of the role that Syria can play in settling regional problems than Barack Obama. It is not true that the US president wants to sabotage Syria’s relationship with Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran.

On the contrary, he believes that he can reach out to all of these parties through Damascus. When the Syrians are treated with the respect that they deserve they can help to bring about peace.

After all, it was Syria that helped to secure the release of 15 British sailors taken captive by Iran in 2007. It took a decision by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to arrest the sailors, but the will of Ayatollah Ali Khamenei to set them free. The Syrians are on excellent terms with Khamenei.

The US realises that it needs an Arab heavyweight to bring peace and tranquillity to the region. With all due respect, Qatar, Kuwait, Palestine and Lebanon do not qualify. Iraq is a heavyweight, but it is in pieces, thanks to George W. Bush. Libya is too far from the Middle East.

This leaves the US with three options: Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Syria. Fifty-four years ago, the leaders of all three countries met with Sir Winston Churchill, the Obama of the 1940s.

Churchill said, “We are building a new world, a better world, after this Great War is over. There will be no more room for conflict or strife. We need the cooperation of Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Syria to bring peace and tranquility to the Middle East. While I am assured of the policies of Their Majesties King Farouk and Ibn Saud, I am particularly seeking the cooperation of Syria, because no deal can be struck in this region without Damascus”.

After summits in Ta’if, Makkah and Doha, it is now time for a Damascus Agreement on Iraq, Palestine and Lebanon.

Sami Moubayed is editor-in-chief of Forward Magazine in Syria.

June 23rd, 2009, 12:17 am

 

Akbar Palace said:

Majid,

In Post 39. of June 17, 2009, you said:

Within few months the Mahdi (A.S., MAMHAS) will appear. The story will be over. The demonstrators will just go home with one infallible sign from one of his sacred fingers.

If it isn’t too much trouble, can you give a specific month or prehaps a date when the Mahdi will appear?

How do you know there will be an “infallible sign from one of his sacred fingers”? Did someone tell you this?

June 23rd, 2009, 12:29 am

 

Akbar Palace said:

Sami Moubayed is editor-in-chief of Forward Magazine in Syria.

Norman,

Is Forward Magazine a mouth-piece of the Syrian government? What happens if Sami Moubayed writes something the Baathist government doesn’t like?

June 23rd, 2009, 12:43 am

 

norman said:

If both the Israeli and the Palestinians think this way , peace could be achieved,

Chaim Gans / Palestinians were made to pay an unfair price

By Chaim Gans

Tags: Partition Resolution

One of the favorite tacks taken by Israeli spokesmen, in attempting to justify the price that the Palestinians paid for the realization of Zionism, is to place full responsibility for that price on the Palestinians themselves. Their refusal to accept the Partition Plan of 1947 is the main anchor for this argument. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu could not, of course, resist reiterating it in his Bar-Ilan address.

But repeating this claim cannot promote peace, as it expresses a complete unwillingness by Israelis to recognize the heavy price paid by the Palestinians for the realization of Zionism. In his Cairo speech United States President Barack Obama cogently expressed the need to recognize that price.

I am speaking about the price paid by the Palestinians not only for the patently unjust elements of Zionism (the expulsion of 1948, the inequality between Jews and Arabs in Israel and the ongoing torment of Palestinians in the form of the settlements); I am speaking about the price paid for its just elements: the establishment of a Jewish state in the Land of Israel.
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The Zionist movement based its justification of the aspiration to establish such a state on the right of every nation to self-determination, on the Jews’ historical connection to the land of Israel and, as the tipping point, the persecution of the Jews in the 19th and 20th centuries. It is clear from the components of this justification that it was not the Palestinians who should have paid the full price for the realization of this aspiration.

Since the justification speaks of the right of the Jews, like all other nations, to self-determination, then all nations and not only the Palestinians should have shared the cost for realizing that right. And since we are speaking of a right that is justified in being realized in the Land of Israel because of the persecution of the Jews in Europe, then the relevant European nations should have incurred the lion’s share of its price. The United Nations Partition Plan did not give expression to this. Therefore, while the Partition Plan was just in principle, the Palestinians, who were the only ones being asked to pay the price of the creation of the Jewish state, had justification for opposing it.

In other words, the Palestinians were morally justified in objecting to the partition resolution despite its justice, not because of its injustice. And we were justified in accepting the partition resolution despite the justice of the Palestinians’ opposition, not because of its injustice.

The constant reiteration of the fact of the Palestinians’ refusal to accept the Partition Plan, in an effort to make them responsible for the completely unfair costs we extract from them for the conflict, is to close our eyes to the great injustices that we are carrying out. Instead of understanding Zionism in a manner that includes recognition for the justice of the Palestinians’ opposition, even to its just elements, we deny the right of this opposition so as to create many unjust elements for Zionism.

In my opinion, only an understanding of the justice of Zionism that includes a recognition of the right of the Palestinian objection, and only Palestinian recognition of the justice of their opposition to Zionism that also includes a recognition of its justified elements, can lead to a stable resolution of the conflict.

An insistence by either party on only its own right, out of a total unwillingless to also see the justice of the other side, will perpetuate the conflict or cause its resolution to be an imposed and unstable one.

There is an impression that Obama expressed an understanding of this in his Cairo speech. Netanyahu did just the opposite.

Chaim Gans’ book “A Just Zionism: On the Morality of the Jewish State,” was published last year by Oxford University Press

June 23rd, 2009, 12:45 am

 

norman said:

AP ,

I believe that Moubayed writes from England so he is independent from the Syrian government , and i believe he writes critical articles of the Syrian government some time .

June 23rd, 2009, 12:50 am

 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

Norman, you said:

To all of you and to make it clear ,
my mother is a Palestinian who was born in Nazareth and she does not agree that her plight was the same as the Jews leaving Arab countries ,
I do not remember hearing about Massacres in Syria of the Jews , SO give me a break it is not the same ,

For some reason you didn’t read or chose to ignore what I wrote:

I have never equated the expulsion of the Palestinians to the harassment and tacit or explicit encouragement to leave that the Jewish Arabs were subjected to. There are many whose agenda is to do just that. Not me.

There is no connection between restoring justice to your family and restoring justice to my family. Whomever committed crimes against your family, needs to answer to you. Whomever committed crimes against my family, needs to answer to me. I am capable of owning up to what was done by the army of the country I’m a citizen of, in 48, e.g. I can require my government to solve the Palestinian refugee problem, thus settling your claim to restitution for your mother’s case. You, for some reason, are not capable of recognizing what Arab countries did to their Jewish citizenry starting from the 40’s through the time when these communities were all practically gone, even though most of the events that transpired are not at all disputed.

These two wrongs do not cancel out each other, not because they are not of the same magnitude (this is irrelevant), but because they involve unrelated actors. Israel is the entity that has to solve the Palestinian refugee problem, but Israel is not a side to the dispute between Jews from Arab countries and these countries. The rights of the Iraqi Jews do not belong to Israel. They belong to the Iraqi Jews, individually and as a community that lived in that country for thousands of years. What transpired between the Iraqi Jews and their country has nothing whatsoever to do with the Palestinians and Israel.

What I have been comparing is your ability to take responsibility vs. mine, in the context of the discussion about the ability to introspect and accept responsibility. But maybe this is not a fair comparison, because there are many Arabs who do take responsibility to the screw-up with the Jewish population, and there are also many Israelis who do not take responsibility for ’48 war crimes.

I hope this will prevent further confusion.

June 23rd, 2009, 2:17 am

 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

Jad, OTW and Offended,

I really appreciate your support, it means a whole world to me.

June 23rd, 2009, 2:24 am

 

jad said:

Dear Norman,
Thank you for posting Mr. Moubayed’s article, I agree with you, Syria is the main key for stability and peace in the middle east.
I just wish that the Syrian government deals with our domestic problems and try to solve them the same attitude and awarness they do and plan the international ones.
And that is my take on your take!

Yossi,
I did understand your point from your first reply to Norman, I have no idea why it was distorted or misunderstood later on and I’m glad that you made your point more clear so it will not be misinterpret later. Thank you.

June 23rd, 2009, 2:26 am

 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

Offended,

The people who were cruel to my family in Iraq and Poland are all dead or at the end of their lives. To the extent that their societies, run by their children, are open to recognizing their ancestors’ mistakes and offer a sincere apology, I will bear no grudge and will look forward to close any rifts that were opened during the turbulent 20’th century. If I find that they are mentally stuck in the 40’s, then it’s a totally different ball game.

June 23rd, 2009, 2:30 am

 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

Amir,

Come to my blog, I wanted to ask you about Alon Hilo’s new novel.

June 23rd, 2009, 2:32 am

 

norman said:

Yossi,
You said :

(( There is no connection between restoring justice to your family and restoring justice to my family. Whomever committed crimes against your family, needs to answer to you. Whomever committed crimes against my family, needs to answer to me. I am capable of owning up to what was done by the army of the country I’m a citizen of, in 48, e.g. I can require my government to solve the Palestinian refugee problem, thus settling your claim to restitution for your mother’s case. You, for some reason, are not capable of recognizing what Arab countries did to their Jewish citizenry starting from the 40’s through the time when these communities were all practically gone, even though most of the events that transpired are not at all disputed )))

That is exactly the problem in the Mideast , you and others only want revenge for what was done to them , for your information my mother does not want anything , she just want her family that was left in Nazareth to have equal rights and for the Palestinians that being starved and imprisoned in Gaza and the West bank to have their rights for self determination , is that too much to ask , sorry I forgot they are not Jewish in you Democratic Jewish state where only Jews have equal rights ,

About the Arab Jews , i believe they should be as in Syria welcome to come back and have equal rights and get their properties back as they are allowed to do in Syria where their properties are still empty ,

Now can you say the same thing about the Arab population that were expelled with the establishment of Israel , I doubt that , there is no place for the original people of the land in the new Israel ,

Apparently you and many of your countrymen belive that only dead Palestinians are good Palestinians , we saw what Israel did in Gaza , I just hope that Israel will get back what it gives , good or bad ,

I hope above will make it clear who stand for peace and who stand for domination , I leave it to your intelligence to figure it out .

June 23rd, 2009, 3:12 am

 

Amir in Tel Aviv said:

YOSSI,

If you meant ‘Dejani’s Estate’ by A. Hilu, didn’t read it yet.
.

June 23rd, 2009, 6:04 am

 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

Norman,

Your words are harsh and I do not deserve them, about good Palestinians being dead Palestinians. I have no problem with any person living anywhere as long as they are committed to building a country and being constructive members of society and respecting all its citizens. As I told you in the first post, if there was a Palestinian leader of the stature of MLK or Mandela who would explain to all how we could all live in the same country, then maybe Israelis would not see the right-of-return as synonymous with inviting them to swim back to Europe. When the Palestinians will have their Mandela, then, I hope, the Israelis will have their de Klerk.

And honestly, personally, I’m not looking for revenge, all I’m looking for is apology and recognition. And it’s not because I’m so sensitive as it is because a path for a future goes through a recognition of the past. I would be glad to get a $1000 50-year bond from the Iraqi government as compensation for lost property, because that would both be a recognition of my loss as well as simultaneously demonstrating that I believe in the future of that country and I’m ready to be a shareholder. But if other people are looking for more substantive compensation, I can’t fault them for that (especially if they are poor refugees who really need the aid).

June 23rd, 2009, 6:35 am

 

t_desco said:

Saudis Tried to Pin Khobar Bombing on Iran
by Gareth Porter, June 23, 2009

Immediately after the blast, more than 125 agents from the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) were ordered to the site to sift for clues and begin the investigation of who was responsible. But when two U.S. embassy officers arrived at the scene of the devastation early the next morning, they found a bulldozer beginning to dig up the entire crime scene. (…)

U.S. intelligence then intercepted communications from the highest levels of the Saudi government, including interior minister Prince Nayef, to the governor and other officials of Eastern Province instructing them to go through the motions of cooperating with U.S. officials on their investigation but to obstruct it at every turn.

That was the beginning of what interviews with more than a dozen sources familiar with the investigation and other information now available reveal was a systematic effort by the Saudis to obstruct any U.S. investigation of the bombing and to deceive the United States about who was responsible for the bombing.

The Saudi regime steered the FBI investigation toward Iran and its Saudi Shi’ite allies with the apparent intention of keeping U.S. officials away from a trail of evidence that would have led to Osama bin Laden and a complex set of ties between the regime and the Saudi terrorist organizer. (…)
(Inter Press Service, June 23, 2009)

(my emphasis)

I wonder what this could mean for other international investigations…

June 23rd, 2009, 8:20 am

 

t_desco said:

Good:

Mousavi planning a “general strike”

Mir Hossein Mousavi, the runner up in the official results of the Iranian presidential election on 12 June is believed to be in the process of organising a general strike. (…)

On his Facebook page Mr Mousavi posted a message saying, “We are working on a general strike plan. Please help us with your ideas if you have expertise on this issue.”
(International Business Times, 23 June 2009)

If they manage to paralyze the whole country (and not just North Tehran), that would obviously be a clear indication that the opposition won the election.

June 23rd, 2009, 9:22 am

 

majedkhaldoun said:

“I would be glad to get a $1000 50-year bond from the Iraqi government as compensation for lost property,”
This explains the whole thing, they are after money.he is typical jew.

June 23rd, 2009, 10:58 am

 

Akbar Palace said:

I believe that Moubayed writes from England so he is independent from the Syrian government , and i believe he writes critical articles of the Syrian government some time.

Norman,

Thanks. I looked up Forward Magazine, and the comments suggest it IS a mouthpiece of the Syrian Government. I’ve never read it, so I can’t render an opinion. But I find it hard to believe that this periodical could ever be very critical of the regime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_Magazine

Also, I noticed an interesting reference (11) that gives an example of how Professor Josh also seems to toe the Syrian Government line in some of his writings. I’m not surprised to find it.

http://beirut2bayside.blogspot.com/2008/07/landis-gets-memo-from-imad-moustapha.html

June 23rd, 2009, 11:33 am

 

Akbar Palace said:

Yossi,

As a “typical Jew”, what do you plan to do with your lavish 50-year bond (which you have yet to receive)? The Palestinians have received millions from the Zionist Entity/Project and billions from the rest of the world and they’re still dirt poor. Perhaps you can invest your hypothetical bond a little more carefully.

June 23rd, 2009, 11:41 am

 

norman said:

Majidkhaldon,

That was uncalled for,

Yossi ,

Just expect what you give ,
Israel has the upper hand and you elect your leaders and i do not see apologies coming toward the Palestinians , so if you want the Palestinians to recognize the right of the Jews of return ,then Israel should recognize the right of the Palestinians to live as equal.

June 23rd, 2009, 11:59 am

 

t_desco said:

Conservative revolutions surely make strange bedfellows: middle-class backed liberal reformists aligned with… the most corrupt elements of the religious establishment against hardline, socially conservative… populists backed by the poor.

(Note: “liberal” here means relatively liberal, of course.)

June 23rd, 2009, 12:03 pm

 

Akbar Palace said:

Norman, et al,

Just a few more things for you to consider (see links below). You don’t hear a lot about it, but some claim there was a “Jewish Nakba”, and, as I alluded to yesterday, it was not smaller in size to the Palestinian dispossession:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/jewref.html

http://www.mideasttruth.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9119

June 23rd, 2009, 12:53 pm

 

Chris said:

If anyone doubts that there was a Jewish nakba, just look what has happened to every other minority in Arab countries.

June 23rd, 2009, 1:15 pm

 

norman said:

AP ,

i do not know if you know that the Israeli secret service bombed Jewish sites to entice the Jews into moving to Palestine .

June 23rd, 2009, 1:25 pm

 

norman said:

Syria frees Lebanese convicts: report
1 hour ago

DAMASCUS (AFP) — Syria has freed 23 Lebanese prisoners convicted of crimes including drug trafficking and smuggling, the head of a Syrian human rights group said on Tuesday.

Ammar Qorabi, chairman of the National Organisation for Human Rights in Syria (NOHRS), told AFP that 16 of the “common law criminals” were freed by special amnesty while the rest had completed their jail terms.

“Most of the freed prisoners did not complete their sentences but were pardoned,” Qorabi said, adding that one of the ex-detainees had been sentenced to death while another was serving a life sentence.

He did not give further details.

Families of Lebanese prisoners held in Syria have been demanding for years their release, as well as a probe into the fate of hundreds of their kin who went missing during Syria’s domination over Lebanon.

Syria pulled out its troops from Lebanon in April 2005, under international pressure two months after the assassination in a massive Beirut bombing of Lebanese ex-premier Rafiq Hariri.

Last October, Lebanon and Syria agreed to establish diplomatic ties after decades of strained relations between the two neighbours.

Copyright © 2009 AFP. All rights reserved. More »

June 23rd, 2009, 1:56 pm

 

Akbar Palace said:

i do not know if you know that the Israeli secret service bombed Jewish sites to entice the Jews into moving to Palestine .

Norman,

I try to keep an open mind. I think an open mind is extremely important. Please post whatever links you can find (from reputable news sources) showing what “Jewish sites” the Mossad “bombed”. Whatever the Mossad did to “Jewish sites” would be virtually negligible compared to whatever sites were destroyed by non-Jews.

AP

June 23rd, 2009, 1:58 pm

 

Nour said:

Chris,

You are making blanket, categorical statements without understanding the history and the social development of the region. The people of this region have been divided and fragmented due to the loss of national identity, which resulted from successive occupations leading to the developmental stagnancy of society. As a result internal quarrels arose as each group wanted to either assert its control or separate into its own enclave. Such a stage of internal conflict has been a reality at some point in the history of just about every nation on earth.

But this has nothing to do with Jews from all over the world being implanted in Palestine for the sole purpose of expelling its indigenous inhabitants in order to create there a state of their own. What took place in Palestine was a deliberate, concerted campaign of ethnic cleansing by Jewish Zionist invaders in order to “cleanse” the land from the unwanted race and make room for the “pure” race. You are supporting an inherently racist ideology and its resultant crimes against humanity.

June 23rd, 2009, 2:39 pm

 

jad said:

“Syria frees Lebanese convicts”
Instead of freeing 23 Lebanese criminals, shouldn’t they free the Syrian intellectuals instead?!
Caring about the Iraqi drought so they are going to give them more water and our farmers a box of food! they are doing the same thing to Jordan sending them more water as if Syria with a huge water resources and there is no drought there, the irony is that the government is doing a water monitoring on syrian cities and in Damascus ( except Almalki of course)they are getting water for only 9 hrs a day!
Caring about lebanese electricity shortage and sending them support while they cut the electricity on our own Syrian cities!
“Sell” cheaper to Egypt and Yemen our wheat and have to import it for our own people!
Letting people destroy the environment and polluting air, water and earth by using sewage water for watering food is OK and no one is arrested for that?
Polluting the water of the Sin (the name of the river) basin by the government building itself is OK!
The crimes rates tripled in one year and that is OK!
The prices multiplied 10 times while the minimum wages still as low as $120 is OK!
Creating a public unrest and separate citizens according to their religion, treating Syrian women like retarded and letting kids getting married in a lovely proposed status law is still accepted and we hear nothing about from the government is very OK!

In conclusion for our smart government ‘words’ are more dangerous than crime committed against all of us, our children, our land water and air..how low is too low for that government?

June 23rd, 2009, 3:06 pm

 

norman said:

Yossi,AP, Chris ,Amir,

learn from this , it will be better for all people in the Mideast.

Chaim Gans / Palestinians were made to pay an unfair price

By Chaim Gans

Tags: Partition Resolution

One of the favorite tacks taken by Israeli spokesmen, in attempting to justify the price that the Palestinians paid for the realization of Zionism, is to place full responsibility for that price on the Palestinians themselves. Their refusal to accept the Partition Plan of 1947 is the main anchor for this argument. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu could not, of course, resist reiterating it in his Bar-Ilan address.

But repeating this claim cannot promote peace, as it expresses a complete unwillingness by Israelis to recognize the heavy price paid by the Palestinians for the realization of Zionism. In his Cairo speech United States President Barack Obama cogently expressed the need to recognize that price.

I am speaking about the price paid by the Palestinians not only for the patently unjust elements of Zionism (the expulsion of 1948, the inequality between Jews and Arabs in Israel and the ongoing torment of Palestinians in the form of the settlements); I am speaking about the price paid for its just elements: the establishment of a Jewish state in the Land of Israel.
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The Zionist movement based its justification of the aspiration to establish such a state on the right of every nation to self-determination, on the Jews’ historical connection to the land of Israel and, as the tipping point, the persecution of the Jews in the 19th and 20th centuries. It is clear from the components of this justification that it was not the Palestinians who should have paid the full price for the realization of this aspiration.

Since the justification speaks of the right of the Jews, like all other nations, to self-determination, then all nations and not only the Palestinians should have shared the cost for realizing that right. And since we are speaking of a right that is justified in being realized in the Land of Israel because of the persecution of the Jews in Europe, then the relevant European nations should have incurred the lion’s share of its price. The United Nations Partition Plan did not give expression to this. Therefore, while the Partition Plan was just in principle, the Palestinians, who were the only ones being asked to pay the price of the creation of the Jewish state, had justification for opposing it.

In other words, the Palestinians were morally justified in objecting to the partition resolution despite its justice, not because of its injustice. And we were justified in accepting the partition resolution despite the justice of the Palestinians’ opposition, not because of its injustice.

The constant reiteration of the fact of the Palestinians’ refusal to accept the Partition Plan, in an effort to make them responsible for the completely unfair costs we extract from them for the conflict, is to close our eyes to the great injustices that we are carrying out. Instead of understanding Zionism in a manner that includes recognition for the justice of the Palestinians’ opposition, even to its just elements, we deny the right of this opposition so as to create many unjust elements for Zionism.

In my opinion, only an understanding of the justice of Zionism that includes a recognition of the right of the Palestinian objection, and only Palestinian recognition of the justice of their opposition to Zionism that also includes a recognition of its justified elements, can lead to a stable resolution of the conflict.

An insistence by either party on only its own right, out of a total unwillingless to also see the justice of the other side, will perpetuate the conflict or cause its resolution to be an imposed and unstable one.

There is an impression that Obama expressed an understanding of this in his Cairo speech. Netanyahu did just the opposite.

Chaim Gans’ book “A Just Zionism: On the Morality of the Jewish State,” was published last year by Oxford University Press

June 23rd, 2009, 12:45 am

June 23rd, 2009, 3:07 pm

 

majid said:

Norman,
You have made some excellent comments in this thread and pehaps more than anyone else. However, your best comment so far is number 48. The more you emphasize that theme, I believe, the sooner you will achieve what you’re looking for.

June 23rd, 2009, 3:20 pm

 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

Majedkhaldoun,

Go get a brain, please. Or a time machine to take you back to the 7th century where you belong.

June 23rd, 2009, 3:23 pm

 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

Norman, AP,

Norman is correct, the exodus from some Arab countries (Iraq in particular) was planned and encouraged by Israel and the Mossad, working in cahoots with the Iraqi government. It was a cynical betrayal of both their countries of the past and their countries of the future.

(But those were the 40’s, and such things were not anything unordinary at the time.)

June 23rd, 2009, 3:30 pm

 

Akbar Palace said:

Norman is correct, the exodus from some Arab countries (Iraq in particular) was planned and encouraged by Israel and the Mossad…

Yossi,

Except that Norman didn’t accused the Mossad for what they “planned” or “encouraged”. Planning and encouraging immigration to Israel is nothing abnormal. Just ask the Ethiopian and Yemeni Jews.

Quoting from Norman, he said that the Mossad “bombed Jewish sites to entice the Jews into moving to Palestine”.

June 23rd, 2009, 4:24 pm

 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

AP,

Norman is probably correct about that, but it’s still unclear who exactly ordered the bombings in Iraq. One thing is for sure: the Jews didn’t want to leave and the only thing that got them “convinced” was the application of violence. So if the Mossad wanted to “encourage” them to leave, the only effective way to do that was through violence. I bet that the bombings were done together by the Mossad and the Iraqi government, they both wanted the Jews out.

June 23rd, 2009, 4:43 pm

 

Akbar Palace said:

Norman is probably correct about that, but it’s still unclear…

Yossi,

First you said “Norman is correct”. It had a rather “factual” connotation to it. Now you say “Norman is probably correct”.

Are we again “moving the bar’? My sources say Norman is not correct.

http://jewishrefugees.blogspot.com/2006/04/iraqi-muslims-threw-1951-synagogue.html

In the wake of all the misfortunes that have beset the Jews across the Middle East (and Europe), I think we’ve stumbled on another “strawman”.

http://jewishrefugees.blogspot.com/

June 23rd, 2009, 5:07 pm

 

norman said:

Ap, Yossi,

Look in Egypt in the fifties,

June 23rd, 2009, 6:04 pm

 

Nour said:

Jad,

Whenever there are political considerations superseding fundamental issues, we are going to remain where we are. Our loss of national identity is the source of all these problems, and if national consciousness is achieved we will be on our way to building and strengthening our nation once again.

Our lack of national consciousness caused us to lose very important land rich in water resources to foreign entities and resulted in the division and fragmentation of the nation, such that our efforts were divided causing the dissipation of our national energies. Were we to become aware of our national unity, and act accordingly, you would see that the entire Syrian nation would benefit from the richness of its resources, the fertility of its land, and the brilliance of its people. Instead, we have a divided nation where our natural resources are dispersed here and there, therefore making it impossible for us to benefit from them collectively; we have bankrupt ideological and other divisive and fragmentary movements taking over our entities without understanding how to properly run a country; and we have a nation easily susceptible and vulnerable to foreign designs and agenda due to our divisions and hatred for each other.

I repeat that nothing will be solved except through true national consciousness. We can debate and argue partial political events from now until eternity, but if we do not address our fundamental issues, which begins with our awareness of our national identity and the unity of our society, we will continue to be weak and divided, unable to realize our vast potential. Knowledge and awareness are the key to our advancement. This is why Antoun Saadeh stated that “society is knowledge and knowledge is power.”

June 23rd, 2009, 6:13 pm

 

jad said:

Norman this is for you:

Something for AP to chew on a little!

Following are just a few of the many massacres committed by Jewish-Zionist terrorists, notably by the Zionist Hagana, Irgun and Stern Gang groups.

1. King David Hotel, July 22, 1946.
2. Sharafat, Feb. 7, 1951.
3. Deir Yassin, April 10, 1948.
4. Falameh, April 2, 1951.
5. Naseruddine, April 14, 1948.
6. Quibya, Oct. 14, 1953.
7. Carmel, April 20, 1948.
8. Nahalin, March, 28, 1954.
9. Al-Qabu, May 1, 1948.
10. Gaza, Feb. 28, 1955.
11. Beit Kiras, May 3, 1948.
12. Khan Yunis, May 31, 1955.
13. Beitkhoury, May 5, 1948.
14. Khan Yunis Again, Aug. 31, 1955
15. Az-Zaytoun, May 6, 1948.
16. Tiberia, Dec. 11, 1955.
17. Wadi Araba, May 13, 1950.
18. As-Sabha, Nov. 2, 1955.
19. Gaza Again, April 5, 1956.
20. Houssan, Sept. 25, 1956.
21. Rafa, Aug. 16, 1956.
22. Qalqilyah, Oct. 10, 1956.
23. Ar-Rahwa, Sept. 12, 1956.
24. Kafr Kassem, Oct. 29, 1956.
25. Gharandal, Sept. 13, 1956.
26. Gaza Strip, Nov. 1956.
26. Gaza Strip, Nov. 1956.

Not to forget Lavon affair:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair
and Israel honors Egyptian spies 50 years after fiasco Wed., March 30, 2005

After half a century of reticence and recrimination, Israel on Wednesday honored nine Egyptian Jews recruited as agents-provocateur in what became one of the worst intelligence bungles in the country’s history. Israel was at war with Egypt when it hatched a plan in 1954 to ruin its rapprochement with the United States and Britain by firebombing sites frequented by foreigners in Cairo and Alexandria.

June 23rd, 2009, 6:54 pm

 

jad said:

Nour,
I agree with you that until we have a national identity and we feel that everything we do should benefit our nation nothing will move forward.
However, until the whole region become one if it will ever do, Syria as the country we know right now should be working on developing itself on every level possible and we have to raise the bar and the expectation other wise we will end up going lower and lower on all levels.
The law must be forced and people should learn that doing any crime against your country Land and Citizens should not be forgiven anymore.

June 23rd, 2009, 7:05 pm

 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

That’s right Jad and Norman. The Lavon affair demonstrates the things the Mossad was willing to do in the 50’s to get their job done, and that’s what makes me suspect that it was no different in Iraq. The official truth in the Lavon case was only published in 2005, it will probably take a while longer for the truth in the Iraqi bombing cases to come out, as it is much more controversial (the targets were Jewish institutions, not American or British).

Those were very difficult times and Nuri Said had has back against the wall. Everybody makes mistakes when they are under immense pressure. We should all be aware of that. And while it’s not always possible to undo mistakes, it is definitely healthy to face the past and apologize to those who were the victims of unstoppable forces.

June 23rd, 2009, 7:23 pm

 

Peter H said:

Nour,

I usually don’t agree with Chris, but I think he has a point about non-Arab minorities. There’s definitely an intolerance towards non-Arab groups like Berbers, Kurds & Copts that have tried to assert their distinct cultural & political identities. I hope, in your quest to rediscover Syrian national consciousness, you’ll work to build a pluralistic society that will acknowledge & respect Syria’s cultural & religious diversity.

June 23rd, 2009, 7:28 pm

 

jad said:

Yossi,
What is the Iraqi bombing case, I don’t know it, could you please tell us about.
Thank you

June 23rd, 2009, 8:47 pm

 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

Jad,

Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Jews

You can skip to the section “Modern Iraq (1918 to the present)”.

June 23rd, 2009, 9:59 pm

 

jad said:

Thank you Yossi.
The fact that the Jewish Syrian community didn’t go through the same level of physical discrimination and abuse as described in the link you sent (they went through some citizenship discrimination though) make us less aware as Syrians (Muslims & Christians) of such issue.

June 23rd, 2009, 10:53 pm

 

majid said:

To all, particularly Arabs,

You should be aware that while Wikipedia has been an excellent resource for documenting and transmitting information on the web, yet it can often be used as a propaganda ploy particularly by certain groups trying to advance a certain agenda. Anyone who relies on Wikipedia for information must be aware of the degree of verifiability of certain published information within Wikipedia. It is easy to check but it can also be easily overlooked, and the person would be left with half truths which had always been and still is the hallmark and the bread and butter of zionist propagandists and the followers of this false ideology since inception. A person who reads any piece of information in Wikipedia must first check the verifiability sign that may appear before that piece of information. Pease see

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability

If you see the verifiability sign before the article presenting the information as ‘not-verified’, then you may choose to ignore the information or just read it with a grain of salt. The sign means the information has not been verified. Wikipedia relies on editors from the general public to compile information. Those who have access to editing rights may belong to a myriad of interest groups with a variety of agendas. So it (Wikipedia) is again an active forum for propaganda misinformation.

You should also read this comment #60 here. You would see clearly that this little zionist so-called peace-nik has a specific agenda in mind and is a total hypocrite by comparing what he said in that comment to his contradictions throughout this thread. That is why it is useless to even give him the benefit of an exchange which he asumes could rise to a level of a debate. But delusion often blinds the eyes of its victims.

Be ready for intifada versionIII in the very near future. Arab ministers’ assessment of latest so-called zionist plan or whatever it may be called is 10 fingers down.

June 23rd, 2009, 11:07 pm

 

Amir in Tel Aviv said:

YOSSI,

You’re being BBQed in this thread.. looks like medium to well done..:)

Actually, like Majid I was surprised to read your No. #60 comment.
Is there a shift in your mind, that you want to share with us ?
.

June 23rd, 2009, 11:34 pm

 

Akbar Palace said:

Not to forget Lavon affair

JAD, Yossi,

cc: Norman

Thanks for the heads-up, but this has nothing to do with Yossi and Norman’s assertion that “the exodus from some Arab countries (Iraq in particular) was planned and encouraged by Israel and the Mossad”.

(I bet that the bombings were done together by the Mossad and the Iraqi government…)

Israel bombed LOTS of enemy targets, big deal. However, to the best of my knowledge, synagogues and innocent Jews were NEVER an intended target as Norman and Yossi have claimed.

June 24th, 2009, 12:01 am

 

jad said:

That is just silly,
What Yossi wrote about is his idea of a solution for a one state and he was actually giving the Palestinian some ideas to deal with such scenario, it was a specific analyse of a specific idea at a specific issue and he is free to think of what he want, I may disagree with him but this is not a religion conversion process it’s a dialog we may agree or disagree.
Beside, if we want to talk about hypocrisy, well, Majed, you are the most hypocrite one on SC
http://joshualandis.com/blog/?p=1877&cp=all#comment-223230

I don’t think Yossi is oblige to explain himself at all to anybody, there is a need to cut this madness of meaningless exchange of comments.

June 24th, 2009, 12:17 am

 

Yossi (AKA Rumyal) said:

Jad,

You are my Muslim protector, I’ll have to pay you Jizya 🙂 You explain well what I wrote. It’s called ANALYSIS.

Amir,

Feel free to ask any specific questions you may have about my comment #60 from the aforementioned post. I foolishly thought it was pretty self-explanatory.

June 24th, 2009, 12:48 am

 

majid said:

“I don’t think Yossi is oblige to explain himself at all to anybody, there is a need to cut this madness of meaningless exchange of comments.

Really? Then why are you obliged on his behalf? You seem to overlook the important misinformation he provided you in his Wikipedia link! That is strange!

“What Yossi wrote about is his idea of a solution for a one state and he was actually giving the Palestinian some ideas to deal with such scenario, it was a specific analyse of a specific idea at a specific issue and he is free to think of what he want,”

Wow, you just proved that he actually has an agenda. So are you (both) presenting this agenda in a pseudo-dialog form here in this so-called debate? Are you guys in collusion? If that is the case allow others to criticize and be informed of such agenda.

Do you mind allowing the readers to see your overtures across the border? Are you sanctioned by the government to conduct such messaging to individuals officially classified as enemies by your State? So, why are you violating the law and lecturing Nour on the sanctity of the law that needs to be respected by all citizens – your comment 93 in this thread?

Self determination for a people means they decide their own destiny. They do not need advice from anyone on this issue and particularly from someone who is classified as an enemy from their point of view and who has actually been a participant in the cause of their tragedy.

I stand by that comment of mine that you linked. I still consider what Hamas did was not justifiable. But I do not deny the Palestinians their right of self determination. By the way, the Palestinians have the highest literacy rate in the Middle East and they even surpass their enemies in this regard. Do you think they would need an advice, particularly from an enemy, on what solution is best for them? I can assure you, JAD, you would be the last person the Palestinians would ask for an advice.

June 24th, 2009, 1:02 am

 

jad said:

Thank you for promoting my words, it actually shows who I am and who you are.

June 24th, 2009, 1:40 am

 

norman said:

AP,

I do not think you understand the Mideast , It is like the far right bombs the little right and blame the left so the little right will join them (( the far right in this case )), in the fight against the left and radicalizing them ,

So the idea is for the Mossad to create fear in the Jewish populations in the Arab countries so they leave and come to Israel so they can participate in building the new state. I think that was smart and i do not blame them for working for the survival of Israel , i blame the Arab governments for not protecting their Jewish populations from all dangers .

Jad ,

Thank you jad for your note above ,

as i always look for good from things , i see that our discussion has put us back above the hundred comments and for that we deserve an applaud , so we worked together and achieved that.

It is a small step on the road to peace ,

And that is my take.

June 24th, 2009, 1:44 am

 

majid said:

“Thank you for promoting my words, it actually shows who I am and who you are.”

Exactly, it shows that when you lose the argument, as in this case you’re in clear violation of your country’s Laws in contradiction to your declaration of yourself as an upholder of the Law, you lose balance and become vindictive. At least you owe Nour an explanation and not me.

You were not obliged to jump so quickly to somebody’s defense. Were you? You were not even involved in the argument in the first place. No one was accusing you of anything. I’m still at a loss to understand why you would involve yourself in something you do not own or even do not need to own.

June 24th, 2009, 1:54 am

 

jad said:

From your reply, it seems that you didn’t understand a word of my message, let me be more clear:
I am an open minded Syrian who is willing to communicate, listen and understand what peopel are talking about without threatening them or trying my best to destroy their repution out of hatred.
You Majed are the total opposite of me, you are a useless closed minded person without any direction or aspiration or hope who change his statement every month.
You are nothing but a Parasite who came on SC couple months ago to feel good hanging around the cool Syrians.
Why don’t you sit and rest your brain.

June 24th, 2009, 2:17 am

 

norman said:

Peter H,

Minorities in syria have the same rights and obligations of every body else and the same obligations , what they are not allowed to do is what they not allowed to do in the US secession from the union so if the Kurds want to teach their language in addition to Arabic , the official language then that should be permitted but when they ask to split from Syria and force other minorities in this case the Aramaic Christians to leave then that should never be allowed , can you see California one day splitting and being part of Mexico , we will not allow that here,

About the other minorities , I and many of us consider them as Arabs as anybody else , being Berber or copties they are all Semitics and originated from the Arabian peninsula.

I agree with you that in Egypt Christians can be treated better , that is if real Islam is followed , we would not have found so many Christians if they were not treated well in the past, and that could be reestablished.

June 24th, 2009, 2:48 am

 

Majid said:

Dear Alex or any other Moderator,

I believe I have respected the rules of this site. Someone in comment 108 is not respecting these rules. Please see also my previous comment 107 if it justifies in any way this unprovoked language as in 108.

June 24th, 2009, 3:36 am

 

jad said:

I’m curious, which rule did you respect?

-Personal attacks against other contributors;
-Racist, sexist, obscene, or otherwise discriminatory or hateful language;
-Provocations designed to derail discussions away from substantive debate into dead-end arguments;
-Threats of death or violence;

As far as I know you broke each and every rule of that list, so cut it out.

June 24th, 2009, 4:07 am

 

majedkhaldoun said:

Jad;
please be careful,you are talking to Majid ,not Majed.thanks

June 24th, 2009, 4:41 am

 

majid said:

You could have at least apologized instead of becoming obscene.
That shows how close your mind is, and how far you are removed from civil conduct, and that is exactly why you allow yourself to break you own country’s Laws, but you also give yourself the right to lecture others on the need to respect these Laws. This is a typical well known behavior of a pretentious hypocrite.

Actually you do not communicate. You just pretend. In fact, you do not even have the means.

Are you a moderator to decide if I have broken the rules?

June 24th, 2009, 4:54 am

 

jad said:

FYI, I am the SC moderator for this month.
In July you will get back the original moderators until then we need to change the subject, nobody is interested to read our personal dead-end argument.

June 24th, 2009, 5:06 am

 

majid said:

OK, so If you are moderator (temporary or otherwise), then you have quite few choices at your disposal:

You can ban me out if you think I violated the rules.

You can apologize if you think you violated the rules.

Or you could choose to cut it out yourself and stop responding until I find a proper moderator who can do a better job than your lousy performance.

June 24th, 2009, 5:30 am

 

jad said:

Majid,
1- Since it’s a university site, you have the right to write whatever you want so I would never ban you or anybody for personal reasons.
2- You start the whole charred not me so you deserved what I wrote you back.
3- YOU need to cut it out because you stuck with a lousy moderator like me until the end of this month, so please try to be cooperative and write something interesting that we can discuss.
Thank you.

June 24th, 2009, 5:40 am

 

jad said:

This is for you Majid to start engaging in a more serious discussion:

احتجاج على تعميم رئاسة مجلس الوزراء: كفوا عن خنق الإعلام الرسمي السوري! فالوطن وطنه أيضا!
بسام القاضي
2009/ 06/ 23
قبل ساعات فقط كنا نشرنا مادة عن “غضب وانزعاج” رئاسة مجلس الوزراء من دخول الصحافة الرسمية إلى نقاش مشروع تفتيت سورية وإقامة دويلات الطوائف واحتقار المرأة واغتصاب الطفلات، المسمى “مشروع الأحوال الشخصية”.. إلا أن رئاسة المجلس، التي رأت بأم العين كيف أن الإعلاميين والإعلاميات السوريين، في الإعلام الرسمي كما في غيره، تملأهن/م الغيرة على بلدهن/م وحياته وتطوره ومستقبله، تعرف حق المعرفة أن الإعلام هو الوحيد الذي استطاع أن يكشف هذه المؤامرة على سورية وكيانها ومستقبلها، وهو الوحيد القادر على إظهار تفاصيل هذه المؤامرة عبر تسليط الضوء على كافة محاور وخلفيات هذا المشروع الظلامي، عبرت اليوم عن موقفها بأبلغ ما يمكن من الوضوح، عبر تعميم صادر عن رئاسة مجلس الوزراء إلى الإعلام الرسمي السوري بكافة قنواته ووسائله، بعدم التطرق إلى المشروع نهائيا!

وبناء عليه، تم إلغاء العديد من مشاريع الورشات والندوات التي سعى إعلاميون وإعلاميات حريصون على وطنهم وبلدهم وأسرهم، حريصون على أرضهم وشعبهم ودولتهم! وتم دفع الإعلام الرسمي السوري مرة أخرى إلى “خانة اليك”، عبر إظهاره كما لو كان غير معني بأهم ما تتعرض له سورية اليوم من محاولات تخريب. فجميع محاولات التخريب الأخرى كانت صريحة وواضحة، أما هذه المحاولة، فهي مستبطنة من الداخل نفسه! وبالتالي فهي أخطر بعشرات المرات من أي مؤامرة أخرى.

بالطبع، هذا مفهوم. التطرق إلى المشروع في الإعلام الرسمي السوري يعني المزيد من الفضائح للمؤامرة التي حيكت عبر سنتين من عمل لجنة سرية، أتقنت عملها إلى حد أن تعديل هذا المشروع بنسبة 80 % سوف لن يغير إطلاقا من جوهره الظلامي الحاقد على سورية والحياة!

والتطرق إلى المؤامرة وفضحها في الإعلام السوري يعني المزيد من الإحراج لرئاسة مجلس الوزراء التي مررت المشروع، ولم تقم حتى الآن لا بإعلان إلغائه، ولا بإعلان أسماء لجنة المؤامرة، ولا بالاعتذار من الشعب السوري الذي وضع على حافة الهاوية بمشروع لا هم له سوى إذكاء النعرات الطائفية، وتحقير النساء، وتشريع اغتصاب الطفلات!

إننا، في “نساء سورية”، نعلن احترامنا وتقديرنا الشديدين لكل الجهود الجبارة التي بذلها العديد من الإعلاميين والإعلاميات في التلفزيون السوري بقنواته، بضمن ذلك الكادر الخفي خلف الكاميرات والمايكروفون، وفي باقي وسائل الإعلام السوري الرسمي المختلفة، والتي هدفت إلى المشاركة الفعالة في فضح المشروع- المؤامرة الذي يطال حياتهم وحياة أسرهم ومجتمعهم ووطنهم. ونؤكد أننا نعرف حق المعرفة كيف يعملون في ظروف بالغة الصعوبة، خاصة في مثل هذه القضايا الحساسة.

وفي الوقت نفسه، نعلن احتجاجنا الشديد على تعميم رئاسة مجلس الوزراء بهذا الخصوص، ونطالبها بإلغاء التعميم فورا، وفتح أبواب الإعلام السوري على مصراعيه لفضح المشروع – المؤامرة، والدفاع عن حق حياة الناس وحياة مستقبلهم، والدفاع عن وطنهم وأهلهم بوجه من يحاول جرهم إلى مستنقع الحقد والانحطاط والهمجية التي تشكل أساس إمارات الطوائف وإقطاعيي الدين الذين لا هم لهم سوى تسخير الدين لخدمة مصالحهم وسيادتهم المطلقة على البشر، حتى لو اضطروا لتحويل الدين إلى عقيدة عنصرية إرهابية كما فعلوا في المشروع – المؤامرة. كما أن هذا التعميم يطرح التساؤل المشروع: لمصلحة من إغلاق الإعلام الرسمي السوري، بكل إمكانياته، أمام فضح هذا المشروع؟؟!!

إن أي محاولة للعب بمصير سورية الحديثة هي محاولة محكومة بالفشل حكما. بما في ذلك الادعاءات ونشر الإشاعات حول تشكيل لجنة معدلة، أو تعديل المشروع، أو تجميده.. فهي جميعا ليست إلا مناورات مكشوفة للالتفاف على الرفض التام لمشروع تفتيت سورية، وعلى الغضب الشديد الذي يعتري كل رجال ونساء وأطفال سورية، بكل ألوانهم وخلفياتهم، من هذا المشروع- المؤامرة ومن ساهم فيه..

ولن ننسى، ولن نتوقف عن المطالبة المباشرة لرئاسة مجلس الوزراء بتحمل مسؤوليتها التاريخية فورا وبدون أي تلكؤ أو تقصير، وذلك عبر:

1- الإعلان في وسائل الإعلام السورية عن إلغاء تام لهذا المشروع.

2- الإعلان في وسائل الإعلام السورية عن أسماء أعضاء اللجنة التي قامت بإعداد هذا المشروع، وحلها، وحظر أي من أعضائها من المشاركة في نقاش أي قانون في سورية بعد اليوم، كما حرمانهم من أي منصب أو مسؤولية فيها أي نوع من التأثير على الناس، بما في ذلك التدريس في الجامعات والمدارس، إمامة المساجد، إلقاء الخطب.

3- الإعلان في وسائل الإعلام السورية عن تكليف الهيئة السورية لشؤون الأسرة (وهي بمثابة وزارة، وهي الجهة التي ينص قانون تأسيسها على أن من أولى مهامها دراسة كل ما يتعلق بالأسرة السورية وتقديم مقترحات لتطويرها)، والاتحاد العام النسائي، بمشاركة الجمعيات والمنظمات العاملة في قضايا المجتمع المختلفة، بإعداد مشروع قانون جديد، مع ترك الحرية المطلقة للهيئة في اختيار الكادر الملائم لإعداد مشروع قانون جديد، شرط أن لا يتضمن في عضويته أيا من أعضاء اللجنة الظلامية تلك.

4- الاعتذار علنا من الشعب السوري عن البلبلة والإثارة الطائفية التي تسبب بها هذا المشروع.

وبكل فخر، نوجه من منبرنا المتواضع هذا، تحية خاصة مليئة بالاحترام والتقدير لكل من يساهم في فضح هذا الحقد الطائفي الظلامي الأعمى، من رجال ونساء دين، وحقوقيين/ات، وإعلاميين/ات، ومواطنين/ات.. وأيضا لبعض المسؤولين/ات الذين عرفوا جيدا أي مخطط أسود يتم رسمه تحت مسمى “الأحوال الشخصية”، ويعملون بكل جهد على إنقاذ سورية من مثل هذا المصير..

وندعو جميع الزملاء والزميلات، أيا كانت مواقعهم ووسائلهم الإعلامية، أن يبذلوا كل الجهود الممكنة من أجل جعل مثل هذا الحصار الإعلامي مجرد حبر على ورق، وخاصة عبر نشر كافة أخبار الحملة المناهضة لمشروع أمراء الطوائف في كل مكان، وبجميع الأشكال الممكنة. فهذا بلدنا، والمستقبل مستقبلنا، ولن نسمح لمن يريد جر سورية إلى التفتيت والانحطاط أن ينفذ مشروعه الأسود.

http://nesasy.org/content/view/7552/110/

June 24th, 2009, 5:42 am

 

jad said:

You might be more interested in this than a local Syrian stuff, do you think its a fake move by the Israeli to show Obama that they are doing some improvement?

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1095231.html

Israel removes roadblocks across the West Bank

Recent weeks have seen a dramatic change in Israel’s roadblock policy in the West Bank. Right under the nose of the right-wing government of Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israel Defense Forces has lifted some of the main, permanent roadblocks in the West Bank, which have played a central role in restricting the movement of Palestinians, mostly between the main Palestinian cities.

The decision of the defense establishment to ease Palestinian travel very much reflects the steps the Palestinian Authority security forces have taken against the Hamas and Islamic Jihad terrorist infrastructure in the West Bank. American pressure and demands the Palestinians be allowed to move freely in areas where there is no security risk are also a factor.

Or this lovely one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8104723.stm

Israeli minister in Arab slur row

Yisrael Beiteinu’s policies have sparked anger around the world
Israel’s internal security minister has apologised after being caught on film using the word “Araboosh” – highly offensive Hebrew slang for Arabs.

June 24th, 2009, 5:47 am

 

Majid said:

JAD,
RE: Comment 116
I would say your point #1 is iffy – like in so and so. You know what I mean. Rules are rules.

I disagree with point #2. It started with my comment 99. That comment was not addressed to you in person. The comment itself was very neutral and contained very important information. I cannot understand how you can overlook its importance. I’m referring here to the information about Wikipedia. That information has a lot to do with the discussion.

Point #3 tells me that you are trying to find a middle ground without actually saying the proper word that gets there. It is a very simple 5 letter word – S,O,R,R,Y. Just say it.

I’ll get back to you on the other comments tonight or tomorrow. I may have to go to sleep soon. In the meantime practice that 5 letter word.

June 24th, 2009, 5:52 am

 

majid said:

I’ll answer you quickly on comment # 117, before I go to sleep. I did comment on the main post when this issue was first posted. See here comment 18. My understanding of Tyler in Sham comment which followed my comment tells me that you can only provide observations but cannot modify the law. My comment provides a basis for making a logical observation which could also become part of the Law and the Religous Zealots will have no choice but to incorporate that observation into the Law. Please read that comment. In other words, the conditions which I state in that comment cannot be disputed by the religous authorities because they are from the essense of the Religous Law which institutes such marriages.

June 24th, 2009, 6:13 am

 

t_desco said:

Obama Will Restore U.S. Ambassador To Syria

By Scott Wilson
Wednesday, June 24, 2009

President Obama has decided to return a U.S. ambassador to Syria after an absence of more than four years, marking a significant step toward engaging an influential Arab nation long at odds with the United States.

The acting assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern affairs, Jeffrey D. Feltman, informed Syria’s U.S. ambassador, Imad Mustafa, Tuesday night of Obama’s intention, according to a senior administration official who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the decision had yet to be made public.

By returning a senior U.S. envoy to Damascus, the Obama administration is seeking to carve out a far larger U.S. role in the region as the president works to rehabilitate U.S. relations with the Islamic world and the Arab Middle East.

The Bush administration withdrew its ambassador in February 2005 to protest the assassination of former Lebanese prime minister Rafiq al-Hariri. Syrian intelligence officials are suspected of being behind the bombing in Beirut that killed him, a claim Syrian President Bashar al-Assad has long rejected.

The loss of U.S. diplomatic leverage in the region has left a vacuum filled in large part by Iran. Returning the ambassador to Syria, senior administration officials said, represents the restoration of a sustained diplomatic presence in a secular Arab country central to many U.S. interests in the region.

“It was our assessment that total disengagement has not served our interests,” the senior official said.

Syria’s ruling clique has close relations with Iran’s leadership. Both nations support the Lebanese movement Hezbollah, which the United States considers a terrorist group. In addition, Syria has been a transit point for fighters traveling to Iraq.

And Assad is central to resolving the Arab-Israeli conflict. Israel occupies the Syrian Golan Heights, territory Assad has demanded in return for peace with Israel.
Washington Post

June 24th, 2009, 6:13 am

 

jad said:

Majid
1-Rules are rules, agree
2-I disagree with your disagreement since you actually treating people here as if they are naive and know nothing and they need your guideness to know right from wrong.
3- I strongly disagree, I was trying to take the highway and be as polite as possible so don’t ever mix courtesy with weakness, at least not with me.
and the ‘Sorry’ you are talking about YOU Majid need to practice on saying it because you have managed to insult every commentator on here from the day one you joined in, to be frank you are getting what you are asking for and you deserve it.
Thank you!* *here I don’t mean it I’m just being polite.

June 24th, 2009, 6:22 am

 

jad said:

Well Majid,
Thank you* for pointing out Tyler’s reply, I totally missed that.

*but here I do mean it.

June 24th, 2009, 6:25 am

 

Akbar Palace said:

Norman said:

I do not think you understand the Mideast…So the idea is for the Mossad to create fear in the Jewish populations in the Arab countries so they leave and come to Israel so they can participate in building the new state. I think that was smart and i do not blame them for working for the survival of Israel, i blame the Arab governments for not protecting their Jewish populations from all dangers.

Norman,

I appreciate your understanding of the role of the Israeli government in supporting the immigration of Jews around the world, especially Jews whose lives were in danger. That is one of the main reasons why Jews feel Israel is so important: it provides a “safe haven” for Jews.

I disagree with you and Yossi that Israeli government agents and/or the Mossad was used “to create fear”. Fear within all Jewish communities, Mizrachi, Sephardi, and Ashkenasi was growing fast in the 1930s and 1940s as WW2 became nearer and nearer. In Iraq, specifically, the REAL fear were the laws placed against Iraqi Jews and their businesses. They didn’t need any Mossad agent to know their time in Iraq was coming to an end.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Iraq

June 24th, 2009, 11:49 am

 

t_desco said:

US moves to isolate Iran with full Syria embassy

James Hider, Middle East Correspondent

The United States is to appoint a new ambassador to Syria after a gap of four years, the strongest sign yet of President Obama’s desire to re-engage the pariah state and draw it away from the influence of Iran.

The move to a fully staffed embassy will be an important boost to Syria, which has suffered years of diplomatic isolation because of its strong trade and strategic ties with Iran. (…)

The new Administration believes that wooing Syria back into the diplomatic fold may encourage it to withdraw its support to insurgents in Iraq, loosen its ties with Iran and prevent the flow of weapons from Iran to Hezbollah, the Shia militia that operates as a state-within-a-state inside Lebanon. The US also hopes that forging ties with the Syrian Government may put pressure on the Hamas leadership in exile in Damascus.

A senior US official told The New York Times that “there is a lot of work to do in the region for which Syria can play a role. For that, it helps to have a fully staffed embassy.”

Ath-Thawra, a Syrian government newspaper,has lauded Washington’s extended hand in a way that Iran has not. “Today, there is real optimism because the two parties realise the importance of improving bilateral relations in order to achieve global peace,” it said recently.

Many analysts believe, however, that while Syria, with its struggling economy, would welcome the chance to open up to the world again, its leadership is unlikely to cut its profitable ties to Iran quickly . It is believed that Bashar al-Assad, the President, will try to play both sides off against the other for maximum benefit, while keeping his authoritarian regime in power.
The Times

June 24th, 2009, 11:58 am

 

jad said:

As usual NO COMMENT!

النسخة المعدلة من مشروع قانون الأحوال الشخصية… تعديل نحو الأسوأ

خاص – ( كلنا شركاء )
24/ 06/ 2009
علمت ” كلنا شركاء ” صباح هذا اليوم من مصدر موثوق رفض الكشف عن أسمه أن اللجنة الجديدة التي شكلها رئيس مجلس الوزراء لدراسة الملاحظات على مشروع قانون الأحوال الشخصية قد انتهت منذ أيام من تعديل النسخة الأولى من المشروع المذكور، وأضاف المصدر أن النسخة الجديدة المعدلة من المشروع حافظت على كافة الأحكام المتعلقة بالمسلمين ولاسيما تلك المتعلقة بالمرأة والطفل التي وردت في المشروع السابق، مع بعض الترتيب والتنسيق، إلا من بعض التعديلات الطفيفة كحذف كلمة ذمي من المشروع واستبدالها بكتابية للتعبير عن المسيحيين، فعلى سبيل المثال:

نجد إن المادة 21 من المشروع المتعلقة بإنشاء نيابة عامة شرعية بقيت كما هي مع بعض التفصيل، أما المادة 38 من المشروع السابق فأصبح رقمها 37 وهي التي تنتقص من أهلية المرأة في الشهادة وتم حذف كلمة ذمي من فقرتها الثالثة فأصبحت: (37/3 – تجوز شهادة الكتابي إلا إذا كانت الزوجة كتابية حين الضرورة ، ولكن لايثبت الزوج إذا جحدته الزوج المسلم ، ويثبت إذا جحدته الكتابية) وبموجب هذه الفقرة يستطيع المسلم الادعاء بأن هذه الكتابية أو تلك زوجته، ويؤخذ بكلامه، فيما إذا نكرت الكتابية إدعاء المسلم فلا يؤخذ بكلامها..
وأبقى التعديل على زواج المراهقة بسن 13 والفتى بسن 15 عاماً المنصوص عليها في المادة 45، أما المادة 53 من المشروع السابق تغيررقمها في التعديل الجديد بحيث أصبح 51 : “1-إذا زوجت الكبيرة نفسها من غير موافقة الولي فإن كان الزوج كفؤاً لزم العقد وإلا فللولي طلب فسخ النكاح”. أما المادة 54 والتي تنص:” العبرة في الكفاءة: الصلاح في الدين وعرف البلد غير المخالف للشرع. فأصبح رقمها 52/ دون أي تعديل، أما المادة 63 فقد تم حذفها ودمجها مع المادة 93 التي نصت : يقع الزواج باطلاً:1-زواج المسلمة بغير المسلم.-زواج المسلم بغير المسلمة ما لم تكن كتابية.-زواج المرتد عن الإسلام، أو المرتدة، ولو كان الطرف الآخر غير مسلم.-إذا كانت الزوجة من المحارم قرابة أو رضاعا أو مصاهرة أو زوجة للغير أو معتدة الغير أو مطلقة الزوج ثلاثاً أو لا يحل الجمع بينها وبين من في عصمته أو لا تدين بدين سماوي.
أما المادة270 التي نصت : -يثبت النسب بشهادة رجلين، أو رجل وامرأتين.-تثبت الولادة وتعيين المولود بشهادة الواحد العدل المسلم ذكراً كان أم أنثى.-يثبت النسب بالشهادة بالشهرة والتسامع.” بقيت كما هي وتغير رقمها فقط في التعديل حيث أصبح 253/.
أما المادة المادة278 التي نصت : ” يكون الطفل المهمل مسلماً:-إذا كان أحد أبويه مسلماً.
2-إذا وجد وليداً في حي أو شارع معظم سكانه من المسلمين بموجب بيان من مختار المحلة، أو وجد ملقى على باب أحد المساجد أو الزوايا.” فأصبحت بعد التعديل: 1- إذا كان أحد أبويه مسلماً -2- إذا وجد وليداً مجهول الأبوين”. وذلك بغض النظر فيما إذا وحد في حي مسيحي أو كان أسمه يدل على أنه مسيحي أو يحمل صليبا.
أما المادة 293 التي نصت : “الأم الحاضنة غير المسلمة أما كانت، أو غيرها، تستحق حضانة ولد المسلم، حتى يعقل الولد معنى الأديان، أو يخشى أن يألف غير الإسلام وإن لم يعقل الأديان، لأنهن أحرص على حضانته على أن لا يتجاوز عمره أربع سنوات). فبقيت دون أي تعديل باستثناء الرقم الذي أصبح 276، وكذلك المادة 294 التي نصت :-تقتصر الحضانة على الأم المسلمة فقط إذا خشي على المحضون أن يألف غير دين الإسلام وعاداته، أو كانت الحاضنة تستغل ضعف الطفل لتنشئته على غير دين أبيه الإسلام. -تنتقل الحضانة بعدها إلى الأب أو إلى من يلي الأم المسلمة بالحضانة من المسلمات خلال فترة الحضانة.” فبقيت دون تعديل إلا الرقم فأصبح بعد التعديل 277
أما المادة 325فاصبح رقمها 307 والتي تنص:-ابن المسلم الأصلي يكون مسلماً.-ابن غير المسلمين يكون على دين أبيه.-إذا أسلم الزوجان معاً كان القاصر من أولادهما مسلماً، سواء أكان مولوداً بعد الإسلام أم قبله.-إذا اسلم أحد الزوجين كان دين الصغير هو الإسلام، على أن يبقى له حق اختيار الدين عند بلوغه سن الرشد خلال شهر من بلوغه، شريطة أن لا يكون قد صدر عنه ما يدل على إسلامه قولاً أو فعلاً.-لا يطبق حق اختيار الدين على الصغيرالذي ولد بعد إسلام أبيه.يبقى المحضون أثناء فترة الحضانة على الفطرة دون تأثير من أحد أبويه.
أما المادة 380 التي نصت : 1 -على الوصي أن يودع باسم القاصر في خزانة الدولة أو في مصرف يوافق عليه القاضي كل ما يحصله من نقوده.. بينما في التعديل الجديد أصبحت تحمل الرقم 361 ونصت : “على الوصي أن يودع باسم القاصر في خزانة الدولة أو في مصرف إسلامي يوافق عليه القاضي.. أي تم تحديد المصرف بأن يكون إسلامياً.
أما فيما يتعلق بالطائفة الدرزية فأبقى على كافة الأحكام المنصوص عنها في القانون النافذ دون أي تعديل، وتغير فقط رقم المادة من 619 إلى 589.
أما فيما يتعلق بالطوائف المسيحية أبقى التعديل على بقية المواد دون أي تعديل إلا في الرقم باستثناء حذف الأحكام المتعلقة بالخطبة، وترك أمرها على ما يبدو لتشريع كل طائفة. :كما تم حذف المادتين 639و640 واستعيض عنهما بالمادة 607 التي نصت : ” يجوز لكل من الزوجين أن يطلب التطليق بسبب زنى الزوج الآخر، أو زواجه الثاني”. فهنا التعديل لم يقر مبدأ تعدد الزوجات للرجل وحسب وإنما أقر أيضاً تعدد الأزواج للمرأة المسيحية إذا لم يتقدم أحد الزوجين بدعوى التطليق فالزواج الثاني يبقى قائماً سواء كان للزوج أو الزوجة. وهذه بدعة لم تحدث في أي بقعة من هذا العالم.!!! كما أبقي التعديل على أن عقد الزواج يكون أمام موظف يعينه وزير العدل وأضيف إليه هنا عبارة:” يختاره الوزير من الأسماء التي يقترحها رئيس الطائفة”.. والمادة الأخيرة من هذا المشروع بعد التعديل 639 نصت على إلغاء قانون الأحوال الشخصية النافذ وكافة القوانين الكنسية والمذهبية .
وأضاف المصدر أخيراً ، لقد أصبح عدد مواد المشروع 639 مادة بدلاً من 665 مادة فالطائفة الدرزية اختصت بالمادة /589/، والطوائف المسيحية اختصت بالمواد /590-625/ أما الطائفة اليهودية فاختصت بالمواد /626-635/ وأضيفت إليه أربع مواد من /636-639/ وهي عبارة عن أحكام عامة .
واعتبر المصدر التعديلات على مشروع قانون الأحوال الشخصية أسوأ مما كان عليه الأمر في النسخة القديمة.

http://all4syria.info/content/view/10634/65/

June 24th, 2009, 2:01 pm

 

jad said:

I like this one:

تجوز شهادة الكتابي إلا إذا كانت الزوجة كتابية حين الضرورة ، ولكن لايثبت الزوج إذا جحدته الزوج المسلم ، ويثبت إذا جحدته الكتابية) وبموجب هذه الفقرة يستطيع المسلم الادعاء بأن هذه الكتابية أو تلك زوجته، ويؤخذ بكلامه، فيما إذا نكرت الكتابية إدعاء المسلم فلا يؤخذ بكلامها..

“Book based” person (Christians and Jews) testimony can be taken in consideration (sometimes), HOWEVER, if a Muslim man test that a woman is his wife and in case she denies (here the fun); If she is a Muslim woman her denial is accepted but if she is a “book based” woman then her denial wont be accepted and she will be BY THIS LAW his wife with or without her acceptance!!!!!!!!!! Can any human being come with worse than this judgment? this is a cave man law not a normal human one! From low to lower day after day!!!!
Norman, are you sure you don’t need this brand new committee to help improving the American status law???????????????????????

June 24th, 2009, 2:19 pm

 

Nur al-Cubicle said:

Ha! A right-on-the-money Landis prediction!

“The United States is to send an ambassador to Damascus…a reflection of Syria being a pivotal country in terms of achieving a comprehensive peace in the region”.

June 24th, 2009, 3:15 pm

 

Majhool said:

Jad

how is the new law different from the current one

June 24th, 2009, 3:28 pm

 

Omar Khayyam said:

Our jewish friends here ,and i mean the moderate among them not the blinded zionists,what you are talking about must be understood as a popular reprisal only related to the context of the zionist invasion of Palestine which made the average people anger, so it was an accident of history and not a general rule in history.And you acknowledged that some of these sad events were orchestrated by the Mossad.It shows a fact ,the extremists in the region(of religious,sectarian or nationalist trends) did facilitated the zionist designs in the region.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:006111.jpg

They dont look persecuted ,no ?They owned some of the most beautiful houses of Damascus and the so called Talisman hotel belonged to one of these jewish families.(Istanbuli,Fahri…)

A Jewish family in Damascus, pictured in their ancient Damascene home, in Ottoman Syria, 1901.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/In-Damascus-Restoring-Beit-Farhi-and-the-Citys-Jewish-Past.html

June 24th, 2009, 3:56 pm

 

Shami said:

Our jewish friends here ,and i mean the moderate among them not the blinded zionists,what you are talking about must be understood as a popular reprisal only related to the context of the zionist invasion of Palestine which made the average people crazy anger(1948), so it was an accident of history and not a general rule.And you acknowledged that some of these sad events were orchestrated by the Mossad.It shows a fact ,the extremists in the region(of religious,sectarian or nationalist trends) did facilitated the zionist designs in the region.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:006111.jpg
A Jewish family in Damascus, pictured in their ancient Damascene home, in Ottoman Syria, 1901.
They dont look persecuted ,no ?They owned some of the most beautiful houses and palaces of Damascus and the so called Talisman hotel belonged to one of these jewish families.(Istanbuli,Fahri…)

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/In-Damascus-Restoring-Beit-Farhi-and-the-Citys-Jewish-Past.html

June 24th, 2009, 3:57 pm

 

Off the Wall said:

Majhool
Enabling 7usba law suits, in which a group other than the husband and wife can act to annull the marriage was never part of the old law. It is in the new law.

The establishment of a separate personal status office unit is another addition that was never in the old law.

The reliegiously exclussive definition of “eligibility” or “sala7” is also something that has been formalized. It was not in old law.

The most important issue is that the law is in vilation of the constitution, which was written after the old law. After enactment of a constitution, flawed as it may be, no new laws can be enacted that violate the spirit and text of a constitution.

The same argument applies to the new law’s violation of several international protocols to which syria is a signatory, and which become part and parcel of the body of laws in signatury countries. One could not enact laws in violation of these agreement. In fact it is the responsibility of signator countries to abolish old laws that violate these agreements.

The new law, in many articles strengthen the mans “we6aya” over women. And that is unacceptable in modern Syria. It was in the old law but the new law makes it even stronger.

In the old law a woman was a woman, allbiet with less rights, in the new one, she is formally a subject to men desires, and she is merely a carrying vesal and a nursing machine.

Laws are read literally and contextually, and by all standards, the text and context of the new law are worse than the old one, as bad as that one was.

Shami
Thank you for the post. Nice work being don on that magnigicant palace.

June 24th, 2009, 4:10 pm

 

jad said:

Majhool,
You mentioned before that you check All4syria, here is a link of most of the articles written about the proposed law. http://all4syria.info/content/view/9685/80
You can also check Nesasy.org that Trustquest point me to it long time ago.

The proposed law has very few good improvement but the huge amount of negative and backward new articles they add to it make it unacceptable and way too much than a sectarian society as ours and an open minded Syrian women as ours to bare or deal with properly.
From my understanding the women rights were more general in the old law; in the new one they went too religiously deep that it turns women to objects as it was treated as Taliban would treat their women.
Regarding religion and again from my understanding, there was no specific indication and language in the old law that separate Syrians according to their religion and gender as the proposed one is doing, in this new first draft review they notice that they can’t intervene with other Syrian religious group so they backed off regarding the Christians not the Druz though; according to All4Syria the Syrian Druz were the first group to raise the issue about this proposed law and they were upset that nobody asked them to be engaged in something as important as this so they asked to meet with the minister but he didn’t take them seriously so they went to the presidency way before anybody hear about it, they got a promise to look after that but no word yet from either the government nor from the presidency (usual ignorance of public opinion) the Christian clergy heard the news from ALL4SYRIA (can you imagine) so they did the same but they were smarter they totally ignore the minister and the whole government and went directly to the presidency which again gave them the same promise they gave to the Druz!!
For the Jewish law they didn’t touch it from the beginning it stays as it was before. I’m not a lawyer but in the link I left there are lots of lawyers who look at it in more depth please go through it, some of the articles are excellent.

You can also check
http://syria-news.com/readnews.php?sy_seq=96694
I think there report was very good for a semi-government news site and unsually they let everybody comments to pass through!

From my personal opinion this is the first time in Syria since the 70s that people are debating freely about the issue inside Syria and on most local radio and TV channels and they are taking it very seriously, it is one of the first public opinion cases* that won’t be easily ignored and it might cost the PM his position as a result, which were never the case in Syria.

* I think Waed Mouhanna was the first Syrian to have a public case that was partially won by public against the Syrian government, he is on trial though but that doesn’t matter anymore, he is already a hero
http://www.heartofdamascus.org/portrait-en.htm
http://www.britishsyriansociety.org/dam2020/recommendations.asp

June 24th, 2009, 4:21 pm

 

jad said:

Dear OTW, Thank you very much for articulating the issues perfectly and in more professional way than mine, I appreciate your help 🙂

June 24th, 2009, 4:29 pm

 

Majhool said:

OTW,

Thanks OTWI appreciate your explanation.

Could you please tell me why it violates our worthless constitution? I am not aware of such thing as “prior laws violating the constitution are ok, but new ones are not.

7usba, Kafa2ah, what else.?

Wisaya is already there in the current law, right?

It appears that the attach on the law goes beyond the new changes.

It’s nice to see that you are defending the spirit of the constitution. Hopefully you will extend the same logic into political freedom as well.

Jad,

Thanks for the link, Much appreciated. I do check the website, but to be honest most articles did not explain what changed and seemed to attach the old law and even religious jurisdiction which is a different story all together.

I read somewhere that although the previous law spoke of generalities, the specifics were determined by the “mahkamah el Shar3iyah” (religious court) which had jurisdiction over marriage, custody, divorce, inheritance etc..It appears that they are trying to limit the court interpretation of the law…

Mt personal view is the following, create a civil law and make it optional for people to marry, divorce, inherit, etcc. According to it, in parallel each religious group would work with the government to improve on its law. Harmonizing across all faiths will much difficult.

June 24th, 2009, 5:05 pm

 

jad said:

Majhool,
In your last paragraph you summarized what most of the Syrian want and looking for, nothing more, nothing less.
Thank you

June 24th, 2009, 5:15 pm

 

Majhool said:

Jad,

I am glad that you are in agreement.

Although very secular, I am 100% against “fascist” secularism. Where few force their views and way of life on others, and want to mold the society into something foreign, here is an example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6j5bu_vlTc

Much of the criticism I read was along these lines. Extreme secularists providing no real solutions but merely attacking Islam, Arabia…as if we are Phoenicians now..

Btw, 7usba must go away, that’s middling in one’s business.

Does this optional law has any advocates?

June 24th, 2009, 5:32 pm

 

Shami said:

Majhool ,this is not secularism ,this is pol pot tism,such things happen when the worst kind of people rule over a civilized country like Syria.
Norman what do you think about this video ,it makes you proud too ?

Btw ,one of the main theorician of secularism within Islam ,was an Aleppine Sheikh ,Adulrahman al Kawakibi al Ardabili(even if i disagree on aspects of his thinking) ,it shows the quality of the religious elite in the end of the 19th century and begining of the 20th century.
Now after 40 years of this bad rule ,Syria has been transfigured in all fields.(architecure ,tolerance,patriotism,prohibity,honesty and all qualitative things….).
And now despite this huge failure of national social totalitarism ,we have here our brother Nour who still believe that the people can behave like sheeps and alienated people moving towards the light which emanate from the Zaim.

June 24th, 2009, 5:53 pm

 

Majhool said:

Shami,

As long as we continue to be an authoritarian state not much good is going to happen in all fields

June 24th, 2009, 6:09 pm

 

majid said:

Re: your comment 118,

You answered yourself JAD in your own question regarding this Haaretz article. There is nothing substantive that requires an applaud or a celebration in such window dressings. It is just an attempt to weather a storm in a teacup relating to perceived American pressures. Do you have any doubts to the contrary?

Having said that, Assad seniors position on negotiations is the most appropriate, from the Arab point of view, regarding Arab rights and not only as it relates to the Golan. His position was clear: The invaders, in this case the zionists, must show their willingness to fully implement UN 242 and all other relating resolutions to the letter, i.e. return to 1967 lines before any negotiations can start. Negotiations can only deal with the technicalities of the implementation process.

Likewise, on the Palestinian front, these same zionists must submit to the same resolutions a priori through making an unequivocal public statement by their so-called government, stop and dismantle all the illegal settlements without of a penny of compensation to the so-called settlers as happened in the Sinai (at least it should not be a condition on the sponsoring powers), recognize without any ambiguity the Right of Return of all the Palestinian refugees, and then negotiations can start, and again only on the technicalities of implementation.

As for normalization with the rest of the Arab world, the zionist entity must be made to wait for at least 40 to 50 years after implementation of UN resolutions until it earns a certificate of good conduct from the region. It has to prove beyond any shadow of doubt, that it is actually not a hostile militaristic enterprise serving foreign powers and most importantly that it is willing to adapt and respect the customs of the region and divorce itself from its alien and foreign roots. This is what they call the process of naturalization that immigrants must go through in the well known regions of the world that are considered immigrant recipients. It should be emphasized that Palestine is not one of these regions and this the great fallacy that zionism seeks to propagate by looking at Palestine in the same sense the Europeans looked at the New World when it was discovered. Notwithstanding that even the European perception of the New World was actually flawed, since indigenous people did actually inhabit that New World before the Europeans colonizers appeared on the scene, yet Palestine is well known to belong to the Old World with well established presence of people and civilization throughout history

What do you expect from this so-called Aharovitch? Is he the first idiot with a delusional zio-infected brain that we have come across in the last 100 years or so? After all, his boss had a dream of bombing the Aswan dam! Fools are fools and some are incurable.

June 24th, 2009, 7:11 pm

 

Majhool said:

Shami,

Both Norman and Nour will be pissed at you.

June 24th, 2009, 10:18 pm

 

Off the Wall said:

Majhool

I am afraid that my comment was a little disorganized. When constitutions are enacted, the “theory” goes that they become the highest laws of the land. As such, old laws that violate articles of the constitutions are null from that point on. However, in practice it does not work like that, residuals of laws that do violate the constitution remain both on the books and in court room, or adninistrative practices. It is for this reason that countries who care about constitutional rules empower the a constitutional, and/or supreme court to decide on matters like that. I am waiting for this be the case in Syria!

In fact, in many democratic countries, even mid-tier to upper-tier courts venture into interpreting the constitution (e.g., US courts of appeals), with the supreme court having the final say. One of the characteristics in almost all constitutions is that they mix declarative and affirmative language. In most cases, the declarative language is in the preambles. This what creates a constitutional dialog with courts attempting to quantify the declarative.

My comment was rather informal, for a more informed, yet incomplete analysis of some points of departure between the new law and the old law, please see the following link

http://all4syria.info/content/view/9762/70/

for an analysis of the the 7isbah articles, please see

http://all4syria.info/content/view/9282/65/

and for contradiction with the constitution and international obligations, please see

http://all4syria.info/content/view/9790/65/

Please notice that some of the articles in all4syria are written by lawyers residing in our beloved homeland. This is a positive development as these lawyers develop guts as the saying goes.

June 25th, 2009, 8:38 am

 

jad said:

The tragedy still going on!

نساء سورية
2009/ 06/ 27
يبدو أن الشرخ العظيم الذي خلقته لجنة المؤامرة عبر مشروعها المسمى بمشروع “قانون الأحوال الشخصية”، قد تسبب في سلسلة من الأخبار غير الصحيحة التي، ربما، تعبر عن طموح أصحابها بأن المشروع قد لقي مكانه الطبيعي: سلة القمامة! إلا أن بعضها الآخر لم يكن “بريئا” إلى هذا الحد. بل أطلقه مسؤولون ومسؤولات في الإعلام السوري الرسمي والخاص، لكي يواجهوا فيه الإعلاميات والإعلاميين الحانقين من تواطئ هذه الجرائد والصحف والمجلات مع قوى الظلام والتدمير.

فهؤلاء، على ما يبدو، أجبن من أن يواجهوا “موظفيهم” بحقيقة أنهم يشاركون في المؤامرة “كرمى عيون فلان أو علان”! وبالتالي فليس لديهم أية طريقة لمنع الإعلاميين والإعلاميات المدافعات عن سورية وشرفها وناسها وحضارتها، سوى أن يختلقوا مثل هذه الكذبات السخيفة!

بل، وللمفارقة، فإن صاحبات وأصحاب القرار هؤلاء، لا يتورعون عن القول أن مصادر أخبارهم هي “في أعلى مستوى”؟! حتى ليظن الناس أن “اعلى مستوى” لا عمل لهم ولا هم سوى أن يقدموا لهؤلاء المخادعين آخر تطورات “مشروع تدمير سورية”!

بالمناسبة، فإننا سوف ننشر قريبا لائحة بأسماء جميع وسائل الإعلام السورية، الرسمية وغير الرسمية، وجميع أسماء الأحزاب والمنظمات المعنية بهذا الأمر، تلك التي ما تزال صامتة متواطئة في الجريمة. فصمت الإعلام على هذا الأمر هو اشتراك في الجريمة، وصمت الأحزاب والمنظمات هو اشتراك أشد وأدهى!

وهذه الأخبار، الملفقة قصدا منها، والمبثوثة رغبة بأن تتحقق، تتسبب في إرباكات شديدة، إذ تضيع الجهود في اتجاهات خاطئة.

يمهنا هنا أن نوضح أن هذه الأخبار جميعها عارية عن الصحة فـ:
– المشروع لم يجمد، بدلالة تصريح رئيس مجلس الوزراء في ملتقى البعث الفكري (23/6/2009)، وبدلالة استمرار لجنة المؤامرة في عملها.
كما أن “تجميد” المشروع، فيما إذا حدث، ليس إلا جزءا من المؤامرة يهدف إلى إخماد الاعتراض الواسع عليه، والدعوات المحقة إلى إعلان أسماء أعضاء اللجنة ومحاكمتهم بتهمة تخريب سورية والانقلاب على الدستور.

– المشروع لم يعدل. وكل ما جرى هي أن بضعة مواد قد صيغت بشكل مختلف عما هو سابق، دون أن يتغير أي شيء في مضمونها على وجه الإطلاق. من ذلك استبدال كلمة “الذمي” بكلمة “الكتابي”. بل إن بعض هذه المواد القليلة أعيد صياغتها برؤية أكثر عنصرية وانحطاطا.

– لجنة المؤامرة ما تزال كما هي، وما تزال تعمل على الوصول إلى أهدافها المفضوحة. وكل الحديث عن وجود أو تشكيل “لجنة جديدة” هو ذرّ للرماد في العيون!

وحتى لا نبقى ندور في هذه الدائرة المفرغة، فإننا نقول بكل بساطة: لا شيء من هذه المناورات سوف يجد مكانا له في مواجهتنا المستمرة لهذا المشروع الأسود إلا تحقيق المطالب التي أعلنا عنها مرارا وتكرارا، وتتمثل بـ:

1- الإعلان في وسائل الإعلام السورية عن إلغاء تام لهذا المشروع. (وتأكيدا: علنيا في وسائل الإعلام السورية، وليس بأي شكل من أشكال التسريبات والإشاعات).
2- الإعلان في وسائل الإعلام السورية عن أسماء أعضاء اللجنة التي قامت بإعداد هذا المشروع، وحلها، وحظر أي من أعضائها من المشاركة في نقاش أي قانون في سورية بعد اليوم، كما حرمانهم من أي منصب أو مسؤولية فيها أي نوع من التأثير على الناس، بما في ذلك التدريس في الجامعات والمدارس، إمامة المساجد، إلقاء الخطب.
3- الإعلان في وسائل الإعلام السورية عن تكليف الهيئة السورية لشؤون الأسرة (وهي بمثابة وزارة، وهي الجهة التي ينص قانون تأسيسها على أن من أولى مهامها دراسة كل ما يتعلق بالأسرة السورية وتقديم مقترحات لتطويرها)، والاتحاد العام النسائي، بمشاركة الجمعيات والمنظمات العاملة في قضايا المجتمع المختلفة، بإعداد مشروع قانون جديد، مع ترك الحرية المطلقة للهيئة في اختيار الكادر الملائم لإعداد مشروع قانون جديد، شرط أن لا يتضمن في عضويته أيا من أعضاء اللجنة الظلامية تلك.
4- الاعتذار علنا من الشعب السوري عن البلبلة والإثارة الطائفية التي تسبب بها هذا المشروع.

وبالتالي، فإننا نناشد جميع وسائل الإعلام، وجميع المهتمين والمهتمات بهذا الأمر الخطير، أن لا ينساقوا وراء هذه المناورات المكشوفة، وأن لا يساهموا في ترويجها. فلا هدف لها سوى إلهاء الناس عن حقيقة أن هذا المشروع هو أخطر مشروع يمر على تاريخ سورية منذ قرن من الزمن. وأن هدفه الحقيقي هو الانقلاب على الدولة السورية الحديثة، وتأسيس دويلات الطوائف، ووضع النساء في مستوى الغانيات المأجورات، وإشاعة الإتجار بالطفلات عبر السماح بتزويجهن في سن الثالثة عشرة لمتعة عجائز رؤوس المال المتأسلم.

————————————————
رئاسة مجلس الوزراء تدافع عن اللجنة السرية، وتؤكد الاستمرار بمشروع تفتيت سورية!
نساء سورية
2009/ 06/ 27
لم يكن مفاجئا من رئاسة مجلس الوزراء، ممثلة برئيس المجلس السيد محمد ناجي عطري، أن تدافع عن اللجنة السرية لتقسيم سورية إلى دويلات طوائف، وتشريع تحويل الرجال إلى عبيد، والنساء إلى جاريات وأمات، وتشريع اغتصاب الأطفال والطفلات، وتشريع محاكم التفتيش الممثلة بما يسمى “دعوى الحسبة”!
لم يكن مفاجئا، وإنما مثيرا للتأمل!

فالسيد رئيس مجلس الوزراء قال في “ملتقى البعث الفكري” الذي نظمه فرع دمشق لحزب البعث العربي الاشتراكي (23/6/2009)، قال، وفق ما نقلت جريدة “تشرين” التي امتنعت حتى الآن عن قول أية كلمة حول المشروع- المؤامرة، على غير عادتها في التصدي لقضايا اجتماعية هامة!!: “وفي ختام الأسئلة والمداخلات رد السيد رئيس الحكومة على المتسائلين قائلاً:
بالنسبة لقانون الأحوال الشخصية يجب ألا نحكم على الأمور قبل الحصول على معلومات كافية حقيقية حيث إن القانون لا يناقش في غرف مغلقة بل من قبل لجنة مشكلة في وزارة العدل وتضم كافة الوزارات والجهات العامة والأهلية والتشريعية المعنية به واستغرب هذه العاصفة التي شنت عليه في حين لا يزال أفكاراً وآراء تتداولها اللجنة ولم يرد حتى اليوم إلى رئاسة مجلس الوزراء لمناقشته وان هذا الهجوم على القانون هو استباق للواقع ولفكر اللجنة التي طرحته.
وطمأن الجميع بأنه سيتم الاستماع إلى كافة الآراء والأفكار ومناقشتها باستفاضة من باب الحرص على المصلحة الوطنية ومصلحة المواطن وأن يصدر القانون في النهاية معبرا عن المجتمع بكافة فئاته وشرائحه.”! (انتهى الاقتباس)

فيما قاله السيد العطري محاور عدة بالغة الأهمية لا تثير التساؤل فحسب، بل تستدعي توضيحا فوريا لحقيقة هذه اللجنة المؤامرة وحقيقة ما تقوم به:
– إن المشروع نوقش ويناقش في غرف مغلقة وسرية أيضا بكل تأكيد. بدلالة أن أحدا حتى اليوم لا يعرف منهم هم هؤلاء المتآمرون الذين خططوا لهذا المشروع! فلمدة عامين متواصلين لم تعرف حتى أغلب الوزارات والجهات المعنية بوجود مثل هذه اللجنة! هذا إن عرف أي منها أصلا باستثناء وزارة واحدة ربما كان لـ”رأسها السابق” يدا طولى في فكرة وجود هذه اللجنة وما ستخططه!

– وحالما خرج المشروع- المؤامرة من الغرف المغلقة لهذه اللجنة (المشكلة بقرار من رئاسة مجلس الوزراء، وليس بقرار من أية جهة أخرى)، وزّع فورا إلى الجهات المعنية مع “أوامر” بالرد بالملاحظات (إن وحدت!) خلال أسبوع واحد فقط! فأي دليل أكبر من هذه الأدلة على أن اللجنة سرية فعلا!!
وهل مرور سنتين كاملتين على عمل هذه الجنة دون أن يعرف أحد بها، وهي تعد مشروعا ليحكم حياتنا من الولادة إلى الموت، لا يشكل عملا “في الغرف المغلقة”؟! فكيف إذا يكون “العمل في الغرف المغلقة”؟! هل لنا بشرح على مقاس ضحالة تفكيرنا؟!
ولا يهم إن كانت لجنة المؤامرة مشكلة في وزارة العدل أم في وزارة الغبن.. المهم أنها في حكومتنا وبقرار من رئيس هذه الحكومة وبرعاية كريمة من رئاسة هذه الحكومة التي أغدقت عليها عطفها ورعايتها ودعمها لعامين دون أن يعرف أحد بوجودها! وها هي ترفض اليوم وبكل إصرار إعلان أسماء هؤلاء المتآمرين!

– ثم، يقول السيد عطري أن اللجنة تضم “كافة الوزارات والجهات العامة والأهلية والتشريعية المعنية به”. وهذا، لعمري، أغرب ما فيه التصريح! فإذا كان كذلك، لماذا لم يرد السيد عطري على الاتهامات العلنية الموجهة تجاه هذا الأمر، بتسمية هذه الوزارات؟! ولماذا لم يسمّ الممثلين عنها؟ هل كانت الهيئة السورية لشؤون الأسرة ممثلة؟ هل كانت هيئة تخطيط الدولة ممثلة؟ هل كان الاتحاد العام النسائي ممثلا؟ إذا كان كذلك، فلتعلن أسماء ممثليها لكي نعرف من الذي يثير يحرض على الانقسام الطائفي ويعمل على قلب نظام الحكم عبر نقض الدستور وكافة الالتزامات السورية؟!

نقول “ممثليها” لأن اللجنة، يقينا:
– لم تتضمن امرأة واحدة بإطلاق! وكيف ستتضمن وهو مشروع يستهدف معاملة النساء كما تعامل المحظيات والحيوانات الأليفة؟! إذ من حقوقها على زوجها ” النفقة الشرعية من طعام وكسوة وتمريض وإسكان بالمعروف”!!
– ولا رجل دين واحد مسيحي أو يهودي! وكيف ستتضمن أيا منهم وهم في رؤية المشروع مجرد “كتابيين”، أي بشرا من الدرجة الثانية؟!
– ولا لاديني واحد، كيف سيكونون وهم يوضعون في حظيرة “المنبوذين الممنوعين من التزاوج والتناسل”؟!
– بل ولا حتى مسلم واحد، وكيف سيكون وهم يدوسون الإسلام بتحويله إلى دين عنف وتمييز واحتقار؟!.. بل فقط ظلاميون بقلوب معتمة وعقول مريضة لا هم لهم سوى الوصول إلى مآربهم الخاصة..

ومن هي هذه “الجهات الأهلية” التي تقول أنها ممثلة في لجنة المؤامرة؟ هل لكم بتوضيح أسماء هذه الجهات؟
………….

وما سنختم به هذه المقالة التي علتها مرارة الخيبة، أن ما قمنا ونقوم به ليس “بعاصفة شنت على المشروع”، ولا فورة كما عبر د. العوض، الذي يدرّس في كلية الشريعة الحقد والعنف والتمييز لأجيال من الطلبة والطالبات، بدلا من المحبة والأخوة والرحابة والاجتهاد والتطور.. بل هي مواجهة مطلقة مع الفكر الظلامي التكفيري، الطائفي الحاقد، والاستعبادي المتخلف، مواجهة لن تنتهي كما تنتهي العواصف، سريعا.. بل ستستمر حتى تسقط المؤامرة كليا، وحتى يسقط معها كل من خطط لها وتدبرها ونفذها..

فهذا وطننا.. لا وطن الطائفية والعنف والتمييز واغتصاب الطفلات!
هذا وطننا نحن الذين نحرص على قيمه السامية والعادلة، على تطوره ورقيه أكثر نحو الحضارة والتقدم، نحو الروح الإنسانية السامية والعادلة التي هي جوهر أديان وعقائد وناس هذا الوطن.. وليس وطن المجندين في خدمة إملاءات وأجندات تكفيرية خارجية هدفها تدمير سورية التي يثبت تاريخها أنها براء من مثل هذا الانحطاط.
هذا وطننا الذي ندافع عن ماضيه بكل عجره وبجره، عن حاضره بكل علقمه وعسله، وعن مستقبله الذي نريده له مشرقا، لا مظلما ظلمات قبر إقطاعيي الدين وسالبو الإنسانية..
هذا وطننا.. وهذا المشروع مرفوض جملة وتفصيلا، بتجميد أو بتعديل أو بأي مسمى آخر. لن نتوقف أبدا، حتى لو بقينا في موجهته العمر كله، وحتى لو دفعنا الغالي والرخيص، حتى يسقط، ويسقط من صنعه..

وبما أنكم قد أثبتم في “ردكم هذا” أنكم في غير وارد الاعتذار من الشعب السوري، برجاله ونسائه وأطفاله وطفلاته، بمسلميه ومسيحييه ويهوده وبوذييه ولادينييه و.. في غير وارد الاعتذار عن هذا المشروع المؤامرة، وعن الفتنة التي تسبب بها، والشروخ التي خلقها في المجتمع السوري بمجرد وجوده، فإننا نحن، في “مرصد نساء سورية” نعتذر من هذا الشعب، شعبنا، أهلنا، أخوتنا وأخواتنا، أمهاتنا وآباؤنا وأطفالنا وطفلاتنا.. وبكل ألم، عن وجود هذا المخطط الأسود الذي بدأ تنفيذه بكل صراحة ووضح، ونتعهد أننا لن نتوقف أبدا قبل أن يلغى هذا المشروع تماما، ونرى كل من شارك في وضعه يحاسب محاسبة صارمة وفق القوانين المدنية السورية!

وندعو جميع الذين واللواتي أصبن بالإحباط والتشاؤم: لا تسقطوا ضحية ما يخططون لنا. فهم يريدون تماما أن نحبط ونيأس ونستسلم لكي يسهل لهم قيادتنا إلى مذابحهم الطائفية المرسومة في أوكار خارجية. بل لنستنفر جميعا دفاعا عن وطننا، عن بلدنا، عن أمهاتنا وآبائنا وأخواتنا وأخوتنا وبناتنا وأبنائنا.. بل عن حياتنا نفسها!

You can read the full article on Nesasy.org

http://nesasy.org/content/view/7568/110/

June 27th, 2009, 4:16 am

 

norman said:

Jad,and others ,

What is civil law in Turkey?.that is a secular but still Muslim country and can be an example.

June 27th, 2009, 1:53 pm

 

jad said:

Dear Norman,
I have no idea about the Turkish law, I would expect it to be strictly secular, I don’t know.
What I know and I’m angry about is the Syrian government and the way this prime minister (outri) and his useless ministers are treating a great people like Syrians with the most terrible and rude way that I never seen in my life.
Not only on this horrible law they want to force it on us but every minister is doing a lousy job in his ministry and nobody is questioning him/her even in the Parliament because they don’t want to hurt the feeling of a 6abl like Outri. Is there any country in the world other than Syria cares about the feeling of a lousy prime minister??
During Hafez Asad times, we sure didn’t have any dissent ministry but they wouldn’t dare to get close to the national unity as this ministry is doing.
It’s a real tragedy to see that the majority of Syrians in a conservative region like the middle east asking for secularism, nothing more, they are not asking for democracy or human rights or ..or…or..Syrians are just asking to be treated as human regardless of their faith or gender what is wrong with that and why they shut them out like this?
Syrians are asking for progress while this government is pushing them backward into the dark ages of ignorance….
Believe it or not Norman, and because of this and the way things happening on many levels in Syria, I lost most of my faith in my own country and after a really very long time of refusing to change my citizenship, I’m actually going to, I know that there is no lost for them but hey, if they don’t want us why don’t we just leave and let them have it all, do you remember Na6ouret Almafati7 musical of Fairouz?

June 27th, 2009, 3:05 pm

 

jad said:

Dear Nour,
You should be proud of the SSNP, I am, they publicly refuse the proposed law, excellent and very smart step forward.

نساء سورية
2009/ 06/ 29
ما يزال الصمت يسود الأحزاب السورية تجاه مشروع دويلات الطوائف، المسمى “مشروع قانون الأحوال الشخصية”، والذي بني على إلغاء الدستور والمواطنة وحقوق الإنسان، واعتبار الأشخاص على أساس طوائفهم، وحرمان المرأة من أية حقوق، وتشريع تزويج الطفلات في الثالثة عشرة من عمرهن!

حتى الأحزاب الموصوفة بـ”العلمانية” بشكل أو بآخر، كحزب البعث، الحزب الشوعي السوري بفصيليه (رغم أن فصيل “النور”، ساهمت جريدته بقوة في مناهضة هذا المشروع، لكن لم يصدر عنه أي موقف رسمي معلن حتى الآن)، أحزاب الجبهة الأخرى، وغيرها من الأحزاب السورية المختلفة الموجودة في سورية، كما لو كان تقسيم المجتمع إلى طوائف متناحرة، وقنونة العنف ضد المرأة والطفل والرجل أيضا قضية لا تستحق الذكر؟! فيما تدبج هذه الأحزاب البيانات والافتتاحيات، وتسطر المقالات تلو المقالات عن أتفه قضية في آخر المعمورة؟! وتفرد لما يجري في لبنان وإيران جل صفحاتها!
ولا نريد الآن أن نسترسل في هذا الأمر، تاركينه لوقته المناسب القريب.

لكن المفاجأة السارة اليوم هي إصدار “الشعبة السياسية في الشام”، بيانا عن اجتماع “الحزب السوري القومي الاجتماعي في الشام”، تضمن فقرة مطولة عن “المشروع”. فيما يشكل أول صوت حزبي يصدر في سورية ليناهض مشروعا نعتقد انه أخطر مشروع داخلي مر على سورية ويستهدف إثارة الفتنة الطائفية وتفكيك الدولة واستبداله بالعمائم والإمارات.

بيان الحزب السوري القومي الاجتماعي، أكد أن “الشعبة السياسية درست المشروع بشكل معمق، و وقررت الإعلان عن رفض مشروع هذا القانون، لما يشكله من خطر كبير على النسيج الاجتماعي والوحدة الوطنية والاجتماعية، لتعامله مع أبناء المجتمع كقطع فسيفساء متنافرة متغايرة، وعدم مساواة في المواطنة ((كتعبير ذمي))، وعلى أسس تعاليم أو تشاريع أو فقه مضى عليها أكثر من 1400 و 2000 عاماً، مخالفة نص وروح الدستور في الجمهورية الشامية، الذي ينص على تساوي جميع المواطنين أمام القانون في الحقوق والواجبات وفي المواطنة. كما أن مشروع القانون المطروح يحط من قيمة المرأة، ويقلل قيمتها وهيبتها، ويفرض الوصاية عليها، والإذلال لها، بألفاظ متوارثة من مجتمع قبلي ذكوري تنال من سمو المرأة، ومن تسامي مجتمعنا السوري، فالمرأة أمنا جميعنا بل هي أم المجتمع. وعلى ضوء هذه الدراسة المعمقة لمشروع ((القانون الجديد للأحوال الشخصية في سورية))، يعلن السوريون القوميون الاجتماعيون في الشام، رفضهم التام لهكذا مشروع، ويطالبون بإصدار قانون مدني للأحوال الشخصية في سورية، يوحد المجتمع ويساوي بين المواطنين في الحقوق والواجبات، على قاعدة حق المواطنة، بغض النظر عن العرق والجنس والطائفة، ويكون على مستوى الطموحات المستقبلية لشعبنا وسيره المتصاعد حضارياً. كما يطالب الحكومة بالإعلان عن أسماء أولئك المشرعين والفقهاء، الذين أعدوا مشروع هذا القانون، ليعرف الشعب في سورية أولئك الذين يشدون مجتمعنا إلى الوراء، ويعرقلون تقدمه الحضاري”.

وبهذا البيان، لا يكون الحزب السوري القومي الاجتماعي قد سبق جميع الأحزاب الأخرى فحسب، بل هو قد لامس جوهر مشكلة هذا المشروع، في كونه مشروعا طائفيا يحتقر النساء.

إننا في “نساء سورية” إذ نحيي الحزب السوري القومي الاجتماعي لهذا الموقف الذي يحقق رغبة كل مواطن ومواطنة في سورية، يعتزون بانتمائهم إلى بلدهم، ويرفضون الانجرار إلى الفتنة الطائفية، وإلى انحطاط العبودية والعنف والتمييز، نستغل هذه الفرصة لنعيد دعوتنا إلى جميع الأحزاب السوية الأخرى أن تعلن دون إبطاء موقفها العلني والصريح والواضح من هذا المشروع. فهنا لا محل أبدا للمواقف الصامتة والغامضة: فإما أن نكون مع سورية ومستقبلها، وإما أن نكون مع دويلات الطوائف وويلاتها..

آملين أن هذه الأحزاب سوف لن تتأخر عن مواجهة هذه المؤامرة الداخلية.

http://nesasy.org/content/view/7572/336/

June 29th, 2009, 2:44 am

 

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