“Who Killed Hariri? The Simplest Theory” By t_desco

Who Killed Hariri? The Simplest Theory
By t_desco
For Syria Comment
May 15, 2009

The recent release of the four Lebanese generals by the Special Tribunal for Lebanon (STL) led journalists like Nicholas Blanford and Georges Malbrunot to discover new “intriguing questions” and to speculate about possible motives for the assassination.

I would like to point out that – without having to resort to speculation – it is possible to establish that members of the Nab’a/Taha cell, described in Malbrunot’s article as being allegedly involved in the assassination, had a personal motive for killing Rafiq Hariri: revenge. Hariri executed Salafi mujaheddin in 2004, who were close to them.

Badih Hamadeh belonged to the Dinniyeh group (1). So did Hassan Nab’a (2), emir of the cell that included the man who claimed the attack in a video statement, Ahmad Abu Adas (3). And so did Ahmed Salim Miqati (2), leader of another cell to which Adas was indirectly linked (4).

Prime Minister Hariri signed the execution order for Badih Hamedeh. Hariri’s predecessor as Prime Minister, Salim Hoss, had refused to sign their execution orders because he objected to the death penalty on moral grounds(5).

Hassan Nab’a’s brother Khader, also a member of his cell, was reportedly linked (6) to the assassination of al-Ahbash leader Nizar al-Halabi in 1995 for which three men were hanged in March 1997, among them Afghan veteran Ahmed al-Qassam (7). Two years later, four Sidon judges were killed in revenge (8).

The Dinniyeh group was founded by Afghan veteran Bassam al-Kanj, who died in clashes with the Lebanese army in the mountains of Dinniyeh in January 2000 (9). Ahmed Miqati escaped to the Palestinian refugee camp of Ain al-Hilweh (10), whereas Hassan Nab’a fled to Syria (11). Both Miqati and Nab’a were reportedly in contact with Abu Musab al-Zarqawi (12), who knew the latter from Afghanistan (13).

In July 2002, Badih Hamadeh shot and killed three intelligence officers, who had wanted to ask him about his links to the Dinniyeh group (1). Ahmed Miqati sheltered him in Ain al-Hilweh (10), but members of other extremist groups, fearing for the safety of their operations in the camp, handed him over to the authorities (14). The Dinniyeh militants reacted by placing a bomb in the Sidon mosque of Sheikh Maher Hammud who had delivered Hamadeh to the authorities (15).

The smoke from from the car bomb that killed Rafik Hariri on 14 Feb 2005

The smoke from from the "car bomb" that killed Rafik Hariri on 14 Feb 2005

Ahmed Miqati reappeared in 2004 when a plot by his cell was uncovered that intended to blow up several targets in downtown Beirut, including the Italian embassy (16).

Some observers like Nicholas Blanford and Jihad al-Kazen have speculated that this may have been the first attempt to kill Hariri because he liked to meet journalists in a café just opposite the Italian embassy building (17).

It is interesting that, according to some reports, the Palace of Justice was also on the list of targets (16). The trial of Badih Hamadeh, his fiancée and her mother was held at a military tribunal in Beirut (10).

On February 1, 2006, Al-Balad received a telephone call from a man claiming to speak on behalf of al-Qa’ida. The caller announced that a security target would be bombed in retaliation for the arrest of the Nab’a/Taha cell (subsequently a small bomb exploded at the Fakhreddine barracks in Beirut). He also demanded the release of Badih Hamadeh’s fiancée and her mother (18). The call was traced to a public phone booth in Ain al-Hilweh (19).

In October 2007, Fida’ ‘Itani published in Al-Akhbar what was said to be the testimony of a Saudi member of Nab’a’s cell, Faisal Akbar (20). He first confesses to having taken part in the filming of the videotape containing the claim of responsibility by Ahmed Abu Adas. Then he retracts his testimony. Concerning the video by Adas, he declares that Hassan Nab’a had told him that Hariri was responsible for signing the execution orders in the Nizar al-Halabi case. He also explicitly mentions Badi’ (Hamadeh) (21).

The statement read by Ahmed Abu Adas does cite the intention to “avenge” the deaths of “martyrs who were killed by security forces” in Saudi Arabia as one of the reasons for the attack (22). Unfortunately, I was unable to find a complete transcript of the statement.

In the final part of Faisal Akbar’s testimony, he also describes a file found on the computers of Khaled Taha and other members of the cell as a sophisticated bomb-making course by Isma’il al-Khatib (23), indicating the existence of a link between the Miqati/al-Khatib cell and the Nab’a/Taha cell.

Ahmad Abu Adas worked at a computer shop owned in part by Sheikh Ahmed Al-Sani, a member of the Miqati/al-Khatib cell, in the summer of 2004 (4). Ahmad ‘Isaam al-Saani’a was among those arrested when the plot was uncovered in September 2004 (24). It is possible that at that time Adas was already in contact with extremist groups in Ain al-Hilweh and at Al-Huri mosque, where he sometimes led prayers and where he met Khaled Midhat Taha (25).

Coincidentally, Al-Huri mosque is also the place where Ahmed al-Qassam, Khalid Hamid and Munir Abbud clashed with the Ahbash some years earlier (7), before they were arrested and executed for the assassination of Nizar al-Halabi.

When Bassam al-Kanj visited Lebanon in 1994, he met with several Afghan veterans, among them Ahmed al-Qassam who introduced him to Abu Obeida (26), the deputy leader of Usbat al-Ansar, the same Abu Obeida (Jihad Mustafa) whom Ahmad Abu Adas visited in Ain al-Hilweh years later, according to the first Mehlis report (27). Ahmed al-Qassam went on to serve as liaison between Bassam al-Kanj, the nucleus of the Dinniyeh group in Tripoli and Beirut and Abu Obeida’s group in Ain al-Hilweh until he was executed in 1997 (28).

In conclusion, it is important to stress that while this group did have a motive, that does not automatically mean that they did it, or that this motive was the reason why they did it.

Sources:

1.

“The Badih Hamadeh Affair

When three military intelligence officers came to his home in Saida on July 11, 2002, to interrogate him on his alleged involvement in the clashes that pitted jihadist Islamists against the army in the Diniyeh region of northern Lebanon (…), Badih Hamadeh killed them and went to hide in Ain al-Helweh. In the camp, he joined the group of Lebanese militants – the “Diniyeh group” – that had settled in the Tawari’ neighborhood, at the northern end of the camp, with Usbat al-Ansar’s support.”

(Bernard Rougier, “Everyday Jihad”, Harvard University Press, Cambridge and London 2007, p.152)

2.

“A fourth group was described by the MLCC (Mount Lebanon Criminal Court; t_d) as “holding leading positions in the armed gang” and was identified as (…), Ahmad Miqati, (…).

A fifth group was described by the MLCC (Mount Lebanon Criminal Court; t_d) as having been trained in the use of firearms but not with having taken part in the clashes. They were identified as (…), Hasan Nab’a, (…).”

(Lebanon: Torture and unfair trial of the Dhinniyyah detainees, Amnesty International, AI Index: MDE 18/005/2003, 7 May 2003)

3.

قرار اتهامي يعرض لنشاطها ولصلتها بـ«أبو عدس» وخالد طه … الادعاء اللبناني: مجموعة الـ 13 تنتمي لـ «القاعدة» …وخططت لاستهداف احدى الطوائف

بيروت الحياة – 07/04/07//

(Google-cache only)

Nibras Kazimi, “Six Degrees of Terrorism: Tentative Link Between Zarqawi’s Al-Qaeda and the Hariri Assassination,” 7 April 2007

4.

“81. (…) The Lebanese investigation further revealed that Mr. Abu Adass had been employed at a computer shop in the summer of 2004, which was owned in part by Sheikh Ahmed Al-Sani, who was a member of the Ahmed Miqati and Ismaíl Al-Khatib network.”

(Detlev Mehlis, Report of the International Independent Investigation Commission Established Pursuant to Security Council Resolution 1595. 19 October 2005)

5.

“Three executed at dawn in Lebanon, first in six years (…) Capital punishment was rare in Lebanon until a 1994 law effectively renewed the practice. Whereas only three convicts had been hanged in the past 35 years, the law cleared the way for 14 fresh executions. Execution orders were then stopped when Lahoud first took office in 1998 because then prime minister Salim Hoss was an opponent of the death penalty and refused to sign any such orders.”

(AFP, 17 January 2004)

6.

“After a missile attack on Israel from south Lebanon on December 27, 2005, the Organization of al-Qaeda in Iraq, or the Land of the Two Rivers, issued an audio-recording for its leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, in which he claimed responsibility for the attack and said it was ordered by al-Qaeda’s leader, Osama bin Laden.

Among the names announced by Lebanese authorities, four of the suspects were Lebanese nationals. (…) Among the Lebanese were Khader and Malek Nab’a, who are relatives of the suspects in the Dinnieh incidents of 2000 (see the indictment in Lebanon-based al-Nahar newspaper, July 11 2000).

In addition, Khader Nab’a is associated with the appearance of the Salafi-Jihadist movement in Lebanon, when the leader of the al-Ahbash religious sect, Nizar Halabi, was assassinated in 1995.”

(Murad Batal al-Shishani, “Al-Qaeda’s Presence in Lebanon“, Terrorism Focus Volume 3, Issue 4, 31 January 2006 , Jamestown Foundation)

7.

“The Lebanese public first heard Abu Mahjin’s name at the end of 1995, several months after Shaykh Nizar al-Halabi was assassinated on August 31. The security forces arrested five young men, three Lebanese nationals and two Palestinians. Before taking violent action, these men had been harassed by the Ahbash in the mosque of Beirut’s Arab University, in the heart of the popular Sunni neighborhood of Tariq al-Jidaydeh, where Islamist groups usually control street politics. (…) The tribunal also issued death sentences for three of the five men arrested. The sentence was carried out on March 24, 1997: the three Islamists – a Palestinian, Munir Abbud, and two Lebanese men, Ahmad al-Qassam and Khalid Hamid – were hanged at dawn in the courtyard of Rumiyyeh Prison.”

(Rougier 2007, p.119, 120)

Note: The mosque of Beirut’s Arab University = Al-Huri mosque.

8.

“In the Usbat al-Ansar network, for instance, members of a “military wing” took the initiative, on June 8, 1999, to machine-gun four judges while they were in session at Saida’s Palace of Justice, probably to avenge the execution of four (sic; t_d) Islamists sentenced in 1997 after the murder of Nizar al-Halabi, the leader of al-Ahbash.”

(Rougier 2007, p.103)

9.

cf. Rougier 2007, Chapter 7, Underground Jihad in Sir al-Diniyeh, p. 229ff.

10.

Abu Obeida (Badih Hamadeh; t_d) Pleads Guilty to Murdering 3 Soldiers, Tells How

Fundamentalist activist Abu Obeida has pleaded guilty to killing three Lebanese army soldiers in Sidon and described to a Beirut military tribunal how he carried out the tripartite murder in the presence of his Palestinian fiancée and her mother. (…)

“I then ran into the garden, climbed over the fence and sprinted to the Ein El-Hilweh camp, where Ahmed Mikati and Saadeddine Seiss sheltered me in a mosque,” said Abu Obeida, who, if convicted, could be executed by a firing squad.

Mikati and Seiss are the leaders of the so-called Dinniyeh group of fundamentalists who flood (“fled”; t_d) north Lebanon’s Dinniyeh mountains after an Islamic anti-government insurrection that the army crushed in the first week of 2000. Mikati and Seiss are standing trial in absentia.

Abu Obeida’s fiancée, Sohair Saeed, and her mother Nayfeh Qanwan, both pleaded not guilty to a charge of helping Abu Obeida shoot the three troopers at the midnight of July 11-12. The court adjourned until Sept. 17 for defense hearings.”

(Naharnet, Beirut, 23 September 2002)

11.

“Arrestation de membres proches d’el-Qaëda venus de Syrie ?

Les services de sécurité libanais ont arrêté 18 salafistes qui seraient liés au réseau el-Qaëda, dont certains membres pourraient être liés à l’assassinat de Rafic Hariri. Dans un reportage diffusé jeudi par la LBC, et dont les informations ont été reprises par le quotidien koweïtien al-Raï al-Aam, les membres de deux groupes salafistes qui se sont infiltrés au Liban via la Syrie ont été arrêtés au cours des derniers jours par les Forces de sécurité intérieure. […]

Il s’agit de Hassan Mohammad Nabaa, « l’Émir » du groupe (le chef dans le jargon salafiste). Ce dernier avait pris part aux événements de Denniyé en 2000, avant de fuir en direction de la Syrie. Son frère a été arrêté lors des manifestations de dimanche dernier à Achrafieh. […]

Les mêmes sources ont en outre révélé que les deux personnes les plus dangereuses de ce groupe, Bilal Zaaroura et Khaled Taha, seraient toujours en fuite. Ces derniers sont entrés au Liban en décembre dernier. […]”

(L’Orient-Le Jour, 11 Février 2006)

12.

“Tre dei dodici estremisti salafiti fermati nei giorni scorsi a Beirut hanno ammesso l’ appartenenza al commando suicida che agì in Iraq. Li guidava Ahmad Salim Miqati, uomo che i servizi segreti ritengono legato ad Al Zarkawi.”

(Terroristi arrestati: «Colpirono a Nassiriya», Fiorenza Sarzanini, Corriere della Sera, 25 settembre 2004, Pagina 8.

Testimony of Nab’a cell member Faisal Akbar, translated by Nibras Kazimi:

(Faisal Akbar:) “A: (…) The letters, which you have shown me, and that I have recognized them, are letters from the brothers in Usbet al-Ansar in the Ain al-Helwah Camp to Abu Musaab al-Zarqawi, through Rashid, (while) the letter addressed to “the Hajji”, which is an alias for Abu Musaab al-Zarqawi, and the letter to Abu Laith al-Nejdi, who was martyred (later), these two letters (belong) to Rashid.”

(Nibras Kazimi, Narrative of a Conspiracy, Part 4)

13.

“Q: Where did you meet Rashid and how and when?

(Faisal Akbar:) A: I met Rashid who is in your custody and now I found out that his name is Hassan Naba’a, in Afghanistan during the year 2000 in one of the training camps and we stayed together for approximately five months, then Abu Musa’ab al-Zarqawi sent him to Lebanon to organize groups to prepare the ground for the jihad in Lebanon, so Rashid arrived and he was called at the time “Abu Muslim”.

(Nibras Kazimi, Narrative of a Conspiracy, Part 4)

14.

cf. Rougier 2007, The Badih Hamadeh Affair, p.152ff.

15.

Arafat loyalists fight hardliners linked to al-Qa’ida

By Robert Fisk at the Ein al-Helweh refugee camp, Sidon, Lebanon

(…)

The Jaamat men have threatened to turn the camp into a bloodbath. Indeed, when another of their members, Badi Hmadeh, was turned over to Lebanese police last month, its leader, Ahmed Miqati, warned he would transform the camp into “another Afghanistan”. The trouble is, these few armed and very strict Muslims could provoke a great deal of killing. (…)

As for the men of the Jaamat al-Noor, they have told their friends that they do not recognise Syria, Lebanon or Palestine, that “we live in Allah’s wide dominion and implement his decree”. Their wives wear the chador. Their homes are decorated with pictures of Mr bin Laden. In protest at the arrest of Badi Hamadeh, they left an explosive device in Sidon – inside the city’s al-Quds mosque.”

(The Independent, 16 August 2002)

Palestinian Fanatics Threaten to Turn Lebanon into ‘Pool of Blood

(…) “We have addressed a warning to Hammoud for his betrayal two weeks ago,” said Osbat Al Noor’s statement, referring to a bomb found at the bottom of the rostrum that Hammoud uses to deliver his sermons at Sidon’s Al Quds mosque, two days after Abu Obeida’s arrest.

“It seems, however, that this warning was not enough to stop Maher Hammoud from conspiring with several factions in the camp to turn over the Dinniyeh group,” the statement said. “We declare that we will turn Ein El-Helweh and the whole of Lebanon into a pool of blood if the conspirators press ahead with their plots,” the statement threatened.”

(Naharnet, Beirut, 12 August 2002)

16.

“Lebanon’s Minister of the Interior Elias al-Murr said Isma’il al-Khatib was among 10 people arrested on 22 September, apparently for alleged links to al-Qa’eda and an alleged plan to attack the Italian and Ukrainian embassies, the Palace of Justice and other government security buildings in Beirut.”

(Lebanon: Amnesty International demands independent investigation into death in custody and end to incommunicado detention, Amnesty International, 30 September 2004, AI Index: MDE 18/011/2004)

17.

“Without knowing it, Elias Murr thwarted the first, or original plot to assassinate Rafik Hariri, which had it succeeded, would have done away with the country’s entire future, by striking at the Beirut Central District, the symbol of Lebanon’s recovery.

The Italian Embassy in Lebanon faces the Parliament building at Nejmeh Square and is next to St. George Eastern Orthodox church and the Etoile coffee shop where PM Hariri used to meet friends and journalists upon exiting Parliament. If a ton of explosives had gone off there, the destruction would have been devastating, right in the heart of the capital, and would have killed hundreds.”

(Jihad al-Khazen, The International Investigation and Old Security Files, Al-Hayat, 2 November 2005)

Note: In an apparent misreading of the Mehlis report, the article wrongly states that Ahmed Abu Adas was “part of” “the Ahbash”.

18.

“Blast near Lebanese army post after al Qaeda warning

By Nadim Ladki

BEIRUT (Reuters) – A bomb exploded near a Lebanese army barracks in Beirut early on Thursday, shortly after a purported threat by al Qaeda to attack security installations in Lebanon.

Security sources said the night blast slightly wounded a soldier, wrecked a car and blew out windows in nearby buildings.

They said a local newspaper had received a telephone call from someone claiming to speak on behalf of al Qaeda and declaring that a security target would be bombed in Beirut in retaliation for the arrest last month of 13 group members (the Nab’a/Taha cell; t_d). (…)

Al-Balad newspaper reported in its morning edition that it had received a telephone call in which a man claiming to be al Qaeda’s representative in Lebanon gave the authorities two weeks to release two women detainees.

“The caller threatened to launch three qualitative military operations simultaneously and clash with the security forces if the two women … are not freed,” al-Balad said in a report.

The women are the fiancee and her mother of an al Qaeda member (Badih Hamadeh; t_d) who was recently executed for killing three military intelligence agents.”

(Reuters, February 2 2006)

19.

Two Suspected Qaida Members Held Over Army Barracks’ Bomb

Military Examining Magistrate Rashid Mizher questioned two alleged al-Qaida network members suspected of detonating a bomb near an army barracks in Beirut two weeks ago.

Khalil al-Sowda and Abdel-Rahman al-Jasser, both Palestinians, are also suspected of hurling hand-grenades near Lebanese army checkpoints outside the Palestinian Ain al-Hilweh refugee camp in the outskirts of Sidon. (…)

An army statement issued later Thursday said investigators traced the call made to al-Balad newspaper to a public phone booth in the Palestinian refugee camp of Ein el-Hilweh. The camp near the southern port city of Sidon is known to be a hotbed for fugitives and Islamic extremists.”

(Naharnet, Beirut, 16 February, 2006)

20.

رحلة فيصل أكبر من السعودية إلى سوريا فبيروت

فداء عيتاني

مالك نبعة ينفي التُهم وأكبر يعترف بتجهيز أبو عدس

فداء عيتاني

http://www.al-akhbar.com/ar/node/50181

السعودي أكبر يعترف بتفاصيل التفخيخ والاستطلاع وتنفيذ الاغتيال

فداء عيتاني

http://www.al-akhbar.com/ar/node/50301

السعودي أكبر يتراجع عن اعترافاته ويدلي بما هو أخطر

فداء عيتاني

http://www.al-akhbar.com/ar/node/50501

Translated by Nibras Kazimi, Narrative of a Conspiracy, 5 November 2007

21.

“Q: What did you see on television when Ahmed Abu Ades appeared, and what do you remember of him?

(Faisal Akbar:) A: I remember watching him on the Aljazeera channel, in a film cut up into two or three segments, reading a statement (on behalf) of the Nusra wel Jihad group, taking responsibility for the Hariri assassination. I don’t remember all the reasons, but I remember some of them that revolved around the revenge for the martyrs of the haramein (Translator’s Note: the holy cities of Mecca and Medina), and it was widespread among us that Hariri had signed the execution (orders) for some of the Salafist mujaheddin in Lebanon. (…)”

“(Faisal Akbar:) A: No one was with us, and Rashid said at the time, after the film was played on Aljazeera, that “Hariri was implicated and responsible for signing the execution (orders) for the mujaheddin in the Nezar al-Halabi case” and I hadn’t known about this matter until Rashid told me about it.

(…)

A: I certify to you that what I mentioned now is honest and true, and what Rashid had mentioned about the execution of the mujaheddin in the Nezar al-Halabi case is what I learnt from him. As for what (I meant) by widespread, are the executions in general, which Hariri signed, and they concern past Lebanese mujaheddin like Badi’ or Wadi’.”

(Nibras Kazimi, Narrative of a Conspiracy, Part 4)

22.

“To support our brother mujahidin in the land of the two holy mosques and to avenge their righteous martyrs who were killed by security forces of the Saudi regime in the land of the two holy mosques, we resolved, after relying on Almighty God, to carry out fair punishment against the agent of this regime and its cheap tool in Greater Syria, the sinner and maker of illegal money, Rafik Hariri, through the implementation of a resounding martyrdom operation.”

(Nicholas Blanford, Killing Mr Lebanon, London, Tauris 2006, p. 141)

23.

(Faisal Akbar:) “A: (…) As for the studies that were saved on the computers of the guys, these are modern combat studies, like the seminar of the martyr Isma’il al-Khatib on assembling electronic circuits to attach to explosives, and seminars on making explosives, and seminars on advanced communications equipment.”

(Nibras Kazimi, Narrative of a Conspiracy, Part 4)

24.

نص القرار الإتهامي لقاضي التحقيق العسكري الأول في لبنان بحق35 شخصا من شبكتي أحمد المقياتي وإسماعيل الخطيب بتهمة التخطيط لتفجير السفارتين الإيطالية والأوكرانية في لبنان

صيداويات – الثلاثاء 04 كانون ثاني 2005

25.

“174. (…) Khaled Midhat Taha, another religious associate of Mr. Abu

Adass’s, (…). Mr. Taha met Mr. Abu Adass when they were students at

the Arab University where they used to meet in the University’s mosque.”

(Mehlis I, October 2005)

26.

“During his 1994 stay in Lebanon, Basim al-Kanj had met demobilized Afghan veterans who had returned to their homeland. Thanks to one of them, Ahmad al-Qassam, whom he had met in Peshawar – and who was executed on March 24, 1997, for having participated in the assassination of Nizar al-Halabi, the head of al-Ahbash – he met Usbat al-Ansar leaders for the first time in the Ain al-Helweh camp. He met the group’s emir, Abu Mahjin, and his lieutenant, Abu Ubayda, also known as Jihad Mustafa, the head of the clandestine organization’s military wing.”

(Rougier 2007, p.233)

27.

“80. (…) According to Mr. Abdel-Al, he obtained information about Mr. Abu Adass’s background, (…) the fact that he often went to Ein al Helwa, (…) and that he visited Abu Obeida (deputy to the leader of Jund al Sham).”

“197. (…) the Al-Ahbash Security Service had seen Mr. Abu Adass before the assassination in the Ain Al-Hilweh Palestinian camp together with Abu Obeida the deputy leader of the terrorist group Asbat al Ansar.”

(Mehlis I, October 2005)

28.

“After Basim al-Kanj left for the United States in 1995 (to establish the “Boston al-Qa’ida sleeper cell”; t_d), Ahmad al-Qassam appointed people close to him to develop ties with Abu Mahjin’s group. Umar Yi’ali commuted between Tripoli and Ain al-Helweh, (…). Ihab al-Banna (…) also went back and forth between Ain al-Helweh and the capital to maintain ties with Usbat al-Ansar. After Ahmad al-Qassam was executed in 1997 for the assassination of Shaykh al-Halabi, Basim al-Kanj, who was now settled in Beirut (he returned to Lebanon in 1996; t_d), asked Ihab al-Banna to become the main liaison with Ain al-Helweh. Banna went to the camp at least once a month to give religion lessons to Abu Ubayda (…).”

(Rougier 2007, p.235)

Comments (142)


Pages: « 1 2 [3] Show All

101. norman said:

Dear Jad,

You are welcome , you deserve the good words.

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May 18th, 2009, 2:30 am

 

102. jad said:

Shami, Kareem, uroud alsoud or whatever the name you want to be called by since you keep flip flopping,
YOU GOT ME!
I bought my degree, so I don’t know what beauty means at all, see, the problem is that I’m not as well educated as you are (I don’t have a degree in fundamentalism) nor as open minded and smart as you are (knowing the sect of every person on SC).
I also don’t live in the past or the hate of everything and everybody around me because my father was kicked out of Syria and I have to live in the exile all my life as a result of his mistakes.

For me to improve I think I need a pair of thick sectarian glasses and small brain like yours to see the beauty of the old days.
Unfortunately, I don’t, I have my own eyes to see and my average brain to use without feeling the guilt or the hate.

I guess I have a better life than yours with or without my meaningless Ph.D. in Urban Ugliness…

writing all that I hope that I answered all your questions for today so you can complete my file in your archive and stay away from me for a while.

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May 18th, 2009, 2:46 am

 

103. Shami said:

Jad:I also don’t live in the past or the hate of everything and everybody around me because my father was kicked out of Syria and I have to live in the exile all my life as a result of his mistakes.

You read it,is that not a mukhabarati language?

Jad , unlike your blind mass punishment, i believe that we must not punish the sect,the familly of those who took part to Hafiz Asad crimes and anybody who recognize his past mistakes should be forgiven.
If we do the same ,what would be the difference between us and them ?

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May 18th, 2009, 3:06 am

 

104. jad said:

Oh, did I hurt your feeling? I’m sorry I didn’t mean to…oops

Kareem, when you question my credibility and my degree which I worked long time on it, and when you call me a sectarian in every comment you leave, it hurts in the same way you feel from my words right now, so try to keep all personal stuff outside our conversation because nobody on here is interested and I can be really mean.

When we talked about Damascus the conversation was about 1860 massacre and comparing the burned down Damascus image then with today not about the 70s architecture elements and urbanism so from now on be very careful when accusing people with something they didn’t say and do NOT take the whole conversation out of its context, people wont tolerate that.

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May 18th, 2009, 3:23 am

 

105. Off the Wall said:

And we have finally been blessed that one of our commentators is given a nod from the honorable resident orientalist on SC. We are humbled that one of us “Airabs” has finally managed to write a semi-meaningful comment. Finally the natives are getting semi-civilized. It feels good to be semi-anything after being nothing.

Shami

Honestly, I was not playing games. I just did not look at the posting time and assumed that your message came right when I was posting mine. However, I do mean it, nothing is personal on SC at least for me. May be anonymity has greatly thickened my skin and allowed me to set personal vanity and pride aside.

However, i must disagree with your statement that the majority can hardly be sectarian, to me it is like saying the whites in America can hardly be racists. Like racism, sectarianism is a disease that can afflict anyone. While I do consider the Ottomans to have been capable managers of empire, I still think that they were no better or worse than the empires around them. Empires are empires, they are ruled by force, based on subjugation. There is nothing romantic about empires, they are there to die and leave place for other empires to get born. The interesting thing is the increasingly shorter time it take empires to die off.

We can also take a romantic view of Syria in the 50s, but it was also a Syria where illiteracy was rampant, college education was available only to a select few. Freezing Syria as if nothing has happened in the past 50 years belittles not the regime, but the Syrian people themselves. It belittles Syrian architects who built some beautiful buildings including mosques and churches in every Syrian city. I am sure you do not mean that.

I also disagree with voices who in criticizing the regime romanticize a past that was also full of familial and tribal power. The urban elites that ruled Syria in the fifties, may have played a key role in negotiating independence, but for all practical reasons, they were as clannish as any rulers who followed them since. Family ties played major role in promotions, so did religious and sectarian affiliation as well as regional allegiances.

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May 18th, 2009, 6:39 am

 

106. Shami said:

Jad:When we talked about Damascus the conversation was about 1860 massacre and comparing the burned down Damascus image then with today not about the 70s architecture elements and urbanism so from now on be very careful ……

Jad,seriously,again you lack of honesty,how is that possible that i ask you to compare burned quarter with other thing?, go back to the topic ,i asked you this question very clearly without any reference to the quarter burned in 1860.
It was obvious for me…Your hatred towards any thing related to the Ottomans had forced you to say such non sense.
OTW,high literracy rate can be reached in one or two decades ,but there are important things needed if we look for high quality development it’s a reliable elite ,democracy ,the quality of the civil society …we know for example that the bourgeois and the nobles played a great role in the modernisation and democratisation of Europe.Here too before the WW1 ,children were workers in the coal mines ,education was limited to the rich,Europe has evolved from feudalism to selective democracy,then generalized democracy.
In Syria ,Egypt prior to Nasser we had all these components available now after that the totalitarian states have disturbed the traditional social coherence ,since then,you see the result.

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May 18th, 2009, 1:38 pm

 

107. jad said:

Here we go again! Kareem, ya Ghabi! You don’t get anything anybody tells you and you keep coming back with that same comments over and over, you obviously have nothing else to talk about and you have no understanding whatsoever for any subject out of your personality complexes of being good for nothing.
You never discussed anything out of religious and ottoman occupation ‘beautiful’ period, (I suggest that you go back then and be one of the sultan’s boys, it might help your complex)
You never wrote anything creative since you’ve been here, yet you keep getting personnel, and accuse people of lying or having some kind of conspiracy against you if they don’t agree with your fully stupid and twisted ideas as if anybody cares about someone law educated and no-brainer like you.
Instead of engaging in a meaningless argument like the one you initiate why don’t you read something productive and learn something to improve yourself so you can help your kids in the future and give them something better than what you inherit.

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May 18th, 2009, 3:16 pm

 

108. Shami said:

Jad as usual when you feel cornered you uses insults…typical of a marginal sectarian mind.

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May 18th, 2009, 3:30 pm

 

109. jad said:

You got me again,
Yes, I’m Marginal, Sectarian, Dishonest, Moukhabarat, Uneducated, Bathi..bla bla bla
What do you really want? what is that bothers you the most and make you keep going after me with all kind of baseless accusations?
Is it because I face you with reality and you can’t handle it, well, I can’t help you with that, you must learn how to live in the real word and be a productive person instead of being yourself.

It’s better for you now to shut up and stay away from me as I told you many times before and every comment you address me with I will asked to be removed.
This is the last time I will ask, and I hope that you wont write anything back.

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May 18th, 2009, 3:43 pm

 

110. Shami said:

Here it’s not mukhabarati qardahaland ,in which you can erase anybody who oppose you, Alex is not mukhabarat abu shahata ,here we are all subjected to syriacomment rule that you did not respect.

Alex would instead remove your insults but leave your comments so the people can make their own opinion on you.

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May 18th, 2009, 4:13 pm

 

111. Off the Wall said:

Shami
What Nasser and other “socialist” arabs did was merely to upset the balance that was tilted towards urban elites and allowed the development of a new military and political elites that were more rooted in the country side where familial and sectarian ties provided the only “reliable” source of power as opposed to the loyal, occasionally purchased, following of traditional urban elites.

Nikolas van Dam cites a statistics in which a french anthropologist demonstrates how differential was the attitudes of different peasant communities to these changes. In the western Ghab, predominantly alawite communities had up to 47% of girls attending schools. In the Eastern Ghab, the predominantly sunni population had between 0 to 7% of their girls studying in schools. My own observations, when I was in Syria, were similar with respect to Christian villages allbeit it was probably more than 80% to 90% of girls completing high school education. Even now, high school education for girls among sunni population lags behind those of other groups in Syria. So to put it mildly, even after the balance was upset to their advantage, country side sunnies, and a reasonable fraction of poor city sunnies fail to take advantage of one of the most important equalizers. These statistics are very important. While one can not dismiss sectarian and more importantly familial influences on Syrian politics, the group attitude also plays a role in deciding the nature and type of participation each group ends up getting, whether in a democratic society of in any other form.

As for reliable elites, i find that questionable. Traditional elites tend to sink into depression anytime their status is challenged and once independence is gained, these elites tend to get back to guarding their own interests and to favor the arrangement that gave the cities unquestionable power and left the country side lacking. You see that clearly in India, where the elites continue to rule the day and few families provide the stock of powerful politicians for generations. Inbreeding in the political, and occasionally in the actual sense, which is the main source of continuing and reliability of elites, is the downfall of elites and it will continue to be the downfall of old and new elites as well.

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May 18th, 2009, 4:14 pm

 

112. ABU AAALI said:

Jad,

Go away you Bathi! You do not get to be a mukhabarat here.

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May 18th, 2009, 4:27 pm

 

113. jad said:

I agree, SC is not Qurdaha but it is not a Mosque for you to be a Mouazen in it neither 😉 Isn’t you president from Qurdaha? Have you been there? It’s really nice, the green mountains and the blue Mediterranean.
You should also visit Hafez Assad mausoleum, architecturally beautiful without any Ottoman elements to it though..How bad.

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May 18th, 2009, 4:33 pm

 

114. Shami said:

OTW,i knew all these statistics ,as i said,despite this unequal development ,the social structure was ready to pass the succesfull transition towards sophisticated democracy,we had a dynamic civil society ,press freedom ,a relative democracy ,nice and patriotic elite of gentlemen.
As for the education ,there were already a process of generalization of education before that nasser took the power and the quality of the education provided was very high comparable to that of Europe and Lebanon ,the education for the girls came always lately ,this phenomemon was also seen in Europe,also we should add that in the case of Syria and Egypt the muslim brotherhood played a positive role by advising diehard fathers to give up for the sake of their girls education.
Now in order to get an idea let us compare Jordan with us, i remind you that was a small beduin country some decades ago,Jordanian university professors told me that in the 50 till the 70’s most of university students of Jordan studied in the Syrian,Egyptian and Lebanese universities and they were happy by the high quality of Syrian universities ,today all our neighbors are mocking our educational system.Today it’s the opposite ,in some private jordanian universities half of students are from Syria.They are ahead of us in all fields,in medical ,health centers,hospitals,universities,banks,less corruption.
As for Egypt ,we should not forget that many members of this wonderful intellectual elite were from modest origin,like Tahtawi,Mohamad Abdo ,Manfaluti and also Nasser and Negib included and were product of the khedivial schools.
Now if we want to gain back such qualitative civil society which is necessary for a respectful nation ,we would need a lot more time than the generalization of a basic level of literacy.

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May 18th, 2009, 4:50 pm

 

115. majid said:

SHAMI, in one of your comments above, you said that you love alawites without any concerns about their so-called philosophy (assuming they have any).
I find that disturbing and I believe you’re splitting hairs to sound politically correct. I agree that you should judge people on an individual basis, and you may end up liking them, regardless of their faith. But you should not dissmiss such ‘philosopohies’ as irrelevant and should not be condemened when it becomes clear that such philosophies are unethical and based on evil ‘principles’ that could be even be satanic.
Have you read the excellently researched article of Daniel Pipes?
Also, have you not read the other excellently researched article about the art of dissimulation inherent deep in the mind and behaviour of such a breed?
Come on man, try to be realistic and not overly politically correct. Name things as they are.

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May 18th, 2009, 7:33 pm

 

116. Off the Wall said:

Majid
It is very consistent that you use the words of the prince of hate and the worst islamophobe to incite hate. What tipps the bucket is you calling anything this thought thug does “excellently researched”. The man is a fraud, envious, hateful and a racist. How disapointing that someone like you gives such a fraud any credential?

I guess hate creates strange bedfellows

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May 19th, 2009, 8:49 pm

 

117. jad said:

Dearest OTW,

Hateful people depends on each other for support and to spread their ‘Hate’ messages toward anything and anybody that is different than them.
How pathetic!

عالمٌ أخر

حقدٌ على طوائف
اياتٌ و مبادئ
كثيراتٌ اسبابها
و لكن
حباً لا يكون
دون أديان و مائة الهة
إلى أين نحن ذاهبون
و لا أملٌ في المستقبل
عند صغارنا

J.

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May 19th, 2009, 9:14 pm

 

118. Chris said:

OTW,

Its very easy to dismiss people’s research because you don’t agree with them. While you may disagree with Daniel Pipes’ political opinions, I would imagine that he learned how to conduct research on matters relating to the Middle East when getting his PhD from Harvard on Islamic History. Perhaps he enhanced his knowledge of the Middle East history during his academic career as a professor at Harvard, the University of Chicago, and the Naval War College.

His article (one of the the two that Majid linked to above) tells us that Alawis practice Taqiyya, the religiously sanctioned practice of deception. Is this true or is he simply making this up because he it “hateful?”

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May 19th, 2009, 9:43 pm

 

119. Shami said:

Majid ,i agree with OTW here ,Daniel Pipes can not be a source of reference even if he is knowledgeable ,he is basicaly an anti muslim and pro zionist ,so by definition he is my enemy.There is more knowledgeable than him , Bernard Lewis ,the famous islamologists ,but he is one of the main ideologists of the neo cons with Henry Kissinger the planners of these diabolic schemes that targeted the region during Bush presidency and which cost us more than a million of precious lives in Afghanistan ,Iraq and now Pakistan.
And i would like to add about the Alawites ,how can i attack them as people and we have Alawites who died or spent years in Asadian Prisons ?
They are an authentic part of this country and who attack them has attacked the syrian people as whole.
And about their beliefs ,the things changed now ,we are not in the medieval ages when they were isolated in their mountains in which they developped an incredible syncretism from several influences ,old eastern religion,christianism and Shia Islam ,today many of their elite is atheist and we see many conversions to Sunni Islam among those who live in the cities.
So the things are going towards their integration into the syrian body after centuries of isolation,this is a positive evolution.As for the Nusayri religion ,there is several trends ,not all of them were as portrayed by Pipes and others.

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May 19th, 2009, 10:04 pm

 

120. jad said:

“So the things are going towards their integration into the syrian body after centuries of isolation”WHAAA!?
“this is a positive evolution.” Weren’t they human before?

According to stupidity, Alawite are not considered developed until they:
1- being against the regime and die in prison OR
2- become Sunni OR
3- be atheist OR
4- Call a friend!

Where do you ignorant come with such crap! your brain?

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May 19th, 2009, 10:30 pm

 

121. Chris said:

Jad,

Let’s try to keep the discussion civil by refraining from personal attacks.

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May 19th, 2009, 10:42 pm

 

122. Off the Wall said:

Chris
Daniel Pipes position is not political; it is racial, ethnic, sectarian, and racist. His rants do not qualify as political opinions or positions, they qualify him as hate monger even if his degree is from Harvard and if he has taught in the naval college.

There are few very knowledgeable historians who deny the holocaust, there are also some knowledgeable people who continue to peddle the anti-semetic lies perpetrated in books like the protocols of the elders of zion. I call both groups ignorant fools, and I refuse to give them any respect no matter how thick is the list of citations for I know they twist the truth to serve their racist hateful motivations. Daniel Pipes, Steve Emerson and their likes join this group of ignorat fools and racist hate and fear peddlers with flying colors.

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May 19th, 2009, 10:44 pm

 

123. majid said:

OTW,
I hate to disagree with you. When I see an article which is excellently researched I have to admit it even if it comes from someone I differ with on an ideological basis. Otherwise, we might as well say good bye to objectivity. You have not provided any evidence based on the facts of the article in order to support your view of dismissing it. Your dismissal is solely based on personal grudges which I will not allow and I have noticed an increase in your tone of hostility towards various subjects we already spoke about without any supporting evidence. I just hope you don’t treat those papers that you get to review in the same fashion. Or at least, I hope someone is reviewing your own review for the purpose of sound academic assessments.

I have found Daniel Pipes’ research to agree with many Muslim scholars and that is proof enough for me to accept his research as valid and sound.

Shami, I am not going to argue further with you regarding this issue. But I believe that you are mistaken to consider a certain so-called philosophy as irrelevant in your decision when you decide to like or dislike a certain person. I did admit that it is your right and everyone’s right for that matter to exercise judgment on an individual basis. But it is also every one’s right to form an opinion about certain philosophies and decide if they are suitable for our civilized world. What the alawites as a group did throughout history is not very honorable. Particularly, the latest behavior of the rulers of Syria is a clear testimony, notwithstanding some individual alawites who could be honorable. Any alawite who practices dissimulation is not worth associating with. And we all know it is a fundamental tenet of their belief and the beliefs of all the rafida. If we fail to keep this in mind, we may end up legitimizing many such philosophies like Nazism or fascism. Needless to say that Arabs cannot admit zionism as a legitimate movement or philosophy because of the ethical problem the zionists helped to create for the Arab people of Palestine. You can still judge a Jew individually and you may even befriend and like him. But as an Arab, when he declares his attachment to zionism he becomes illegitimate and you cannot have normal discourse with him.

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May 19th, 2009, 10:57 pm

 

124. jad said:

Chris,
Mind your own business!

I didn’t see you writing a concern complain regarding the hatred spreading message by the so called Majed asking others to hate other people according to their religions!
Isn’t that a break for this rule:
-Racist, sexist, obscene, or otherwise discriminatory or hateful language;
Why didn’t you write any complain about that major hate message instead defending your lovely Pipes?
You are the last one on here to preach, you are an obvious double slandered opportunist kid.

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May 19th, 2009, 10:59 pm

 

125. Shami said:

Jad ,i dont like the corrupt,the mukhabarat,the torturers whatever they are ,alawites or sunnis…or christians.If you are one of those ,so it’s normal that the people hate you.

It’s logical that we feel ourselves closer to those who have many things in common with us(it’s not only a religious matter) for this reason,we feel ,us syrian muslims, closer to a eastern christian than a western christian or even other muslims.
As for those who practice taqiye ,develop hatred towards their environment ,how can those be loved?
You can change the point of view ,how can a syrian christian love extremist muslims who insult them day and night ,and call them impure pork eaters?
Yes there is a shift in the alawite community, an integration in their environment ,so in the end they would share with us the same concerns.

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May 19th, 2009, 11:00 pm

 

126. Shami said:

Majid ,who told you that the alawites nowadays are rafida?In the syrian schools they are obliged to learn the official islam of Syria which is sunnism.Dr Landis has wrote a paper on this matter.
I visit their religious forums in which there is no need of taqiye ,and i didnt see rafidism in them.
I’m optimistic regarding the Alawite future in Syria ,despite all the mess created by the regime.
As for the regime it’s an opportunistic regime ,that plays with several cards ,rafida (hezbollah groups and iran)and even qaida like groups.

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May 19th, 2009, 11:12 pm

 

127. Shami said:

has written sorry

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May 19th, 2009, 11:22 pm

 

128. majid said:

Thank you SHAMI for this information. If it is true, and I have no reason yet to doubt otherwise, then my information is out of date and stand corrected. Nevertheless, the alawites original set of beliefs cannot be sanctioned in any way. In addition, I have not changed my position regarding the clan ruling in Syria (i.e. Hafez and Son Ltd.) particularly with regards to all the harms they have inflicted and continue to inflict on the country. I believe OTW, you and I had a long discussion about this not long ago and you are quite aware of the issues that were discussed.

Thanks again.

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May 20th, 2009, 12:22 am

 

129. Off the Wall said:

Dear Shami
For the sake of the continuation of this important dialogue, which IMHO is a mini-version of the larger and much needed national dialogue, we must both start and end with the certainty that you love Syria and all Syrians no less or more than me, norman, jad or any other Syrian commentator on these pages. This is a necessary condition for civil society that we all dream off and long for in Syria.

First, I want to get one point out of the way, I fully agree with you on the significant accomplishments of Jordanian higher education, both public and private. I had the pleasure to meet some of the outstanding Jordanian faculty, who are responsible for this achievement. We can further discuss how and why did Jordan manage to do so, but briefly, it happened because the Jordanian government is not as obsessed with absolute control of everything as the Syrian government is.

I am glad that OUR dear Jad, despite of his understandable anger, has left the Call a Friend button available, because i beg to differ with you on the notion that conversion is a sign of integration. While this is an automatic and unconscious attitude of well-meaning members of the majority who may see in that a much needed abolition of the barriers of suspicion, misunderstanding, and mistrust, to members of any minority group, it means exactly what it meant to Jad, a rejection unless they conform to the majority. I am sure that you do not view the conversion of a Christian Syrian to Islam as a condition of her/his integration into Syrian Society, so why should it be a condition or even a sign of integration for an Alawite compatriot. You argued in a previous post that we inherited a diverse mosaic from the ottoman empire because of their tolerance of minorities. You can not maintain a mosaic if conformity to the majority is called integration. The two are irreconcilable. Sunnis are the majority in Syria, but they are not Syria.

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May 20th, 2009, 12:27 am

 

130. jad said:

Corruption is not a religion; it is a society disease that must be fought wherever and whenever found.
Moukhabarat is not a religion, it is suppose to be a job to protect the society from harm but people distorted it to become a disgusting abuse of power that should go back to its own purpose of protecting the society under the civil police system.
Torture is not a religion, is a diabolic act that takes over our humanity and every and any one do/did it should be prosecuted
On the other hand, Alawite is a Sect of a Religion that you and anybody else doesn’t have any right whatsoever to judge those who belong to that religion, it’s so fundamentally wrong to do or even think of that on all levels.
By mixing all different religions together in one comment to justify pointing out Alawites as an isolated community that needs to be developed by your ‘own’ criteria doesn’t justify what was you wrote and doesn’t make you look better than any other extremist and radical out there.
Religion is not of your, my, or anybody’s business, it’s exclusively GOD’s to deal with, so why don’t you and those who hates leave that judgment to his mighty God instead of bombarding us with your chaotic and hatred nonsense analyses, it’s not the place nor the subject of the article you are writing under for that matter, save all your precious ideas until someone asked you about.

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May 20th, 2009, 12:48 am

 

131. Off the Wall said:

Majid

I have hostility towards biggotry and hate, as well as towards those who try to crush academic freedom. My view of this person and his likes has never been moderate or mild. And I do not make an appology for that.

Here is a section of a book I am almost about to finish

—-Begin Excerpt——

Rgina blew on her coffee. “So why are you reading it?”
“Because it’s assigned.”, I paused, not sure if I should go on. “And because__”
“Because….”
“And because the book teaches me things,” I said. “About white poeple, I mean. See, the book’s not realy about Africa. Or black people. It’s about the man who wrote it. The Europeans. The American. A particular way of looking at the world. If you can keep your distance, it’s all there, in what’s said and what’s left unsaid. So I read the book to help me understand just what it is that makes white poeple so afraid. Their demons. The way ideas get twisted around. It helps me undertsand how poeple learn to hate.”

“And that’s important to you,”

My life depends on it, I thought to my self. But I didn’t tell Regina that. I just smiled and said, “That’s the only way to cure an illness, right? Diagnose it.”

——- End Excerpt. Barak Obama in Dreams from my Father, pp 103. Describing a discussion he had with a friend during his sophomore year Spelling errors are OTWs not Obama’s 🙂

The reason i cited this exchange is because I happened to agree with the author on this point. This is very much the way I see Daniel Pipes works more about his demons than about me, the religion of my ancestors, neighbours and friends. I will cite his work as an example of how ideas are twisted, but not as a respectable review of Islamic thoughts or as an academic source on Islam or on Islamic sects. I keep my distance when I can, but the hateful messages these poeple carry along as they go from one campus to another enlisting mukhabart-like spies amongst our student populations, trying to corrupt the integrity of our academic institutions, and going on with a fascist campgain of intimidation through inventing unfounded charges, all to silence any criticism of Israeli policies stinks so bad that no distance can keep me far enough. Anyone who does what these thugs are doing deserves not the respectability of being cited. His political views are not the issue here, his anti free thinking campaign is.

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May 20th, 2009, 1:19 am

 

132. Off the Wall said:

By the way,
anyone noticed that the abbreviation of in my humble oppinion completely loses its humility as it gets capitalized 🙂

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May 20th, 2009, 1:26 am

 

133. Shami said:

Ahlan Majid.
OTW ,for me it’s positive that they(the alawites) become closer to the Sunni muslims for several reasons but that doesnt mean that we should force them by force to change their religion,this is against the teaching of al Quran.And in today Syria if Alawites become Sunnis it’s for the reason i cited above ,they left their mountains in which they were isolated for centuries and nowadays they live among us in Latakkia, Damascus ,Aleppo ,Homs,Hama,Raqqa and this proximity is enough to attract them to Sunni Islam,nobody forced them even not through proselytism.Now these conversions should not be understood as total they will not become as conservative than the Sunnis,the big majority is of liberal trend and externally look more like lebanese christians than Sunnis.And the majority would still prefer that we call them “Alawites”.
As for the Syrian christians ,on the contrary, we want those who left to return to their homeland Syria.The decrease of their percentage is a source of concern for many educated muslims.
For this reason ,i’m for the possibility to grant for any christian of syrian, iraqi,lebanese,palestinian ,anatolian origins the syrian citizenship.
Syria without an important christian community would lose a big part of its soul.
I’m also for the return of the Jewish Syrians to Syria.

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May 20th, 2009, 1:32 am

 

134. Shami said:

Sorry Syrian jews.

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May 20th, 2009, 1:39 am

 

135. Jad said:

How did Osama let you out of Afhghanistan? You are the best little helper he could get.
Seriousely, don’t you have any shame writing what you just wrote?
They! Us! Mountains! Man you are a disgrace of every Syrian.
And I’m really disgusted by every word you wrote in your last comment, ya 3eib alshoum 3la heik shabab!
La 7awla wa La quwatta illa billah.

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May 20th, 2009, 1:58 am

 

136. Shami said:

Jad,what’s your problem with they and us,i’m muslim and you are christian ,this plurality is natural in pluralistic Syria and doesnt mean hostlity.

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May 20th, 2009, 2:05 am

 

137. Off the Wall said:

Majid, rest assured, respected academic journals, have the following pecking order

Editorial Board: Review the editors decisions
Editors: Review the associate editors decisions
Associate Editors: Review the reviewers work and assign papers to reviewers based on narrow speciality within the field
Reviewers: Review the authors work
Co-Authors: Review the graduate student work
Graduate students: Do the real creative work behind most big names and a majority of the best papers. Respected professor ensure that the grad student name is the first on the co-authors list in such cases.

I am not going to tell you where I stand in this pecking order now 🙂

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May 20th, 2009, 3:11 am

 

138. majid said:

SHAMI, the last two comments you wrote are excellent. This is how I can best relate to a true Syrian. Never mind what others keep complaining and throwing mudslings out of despair, I assure you it’ll get thrown back in their faces. I know that from experience. There is only so much you can do to accomodate deviations and you have done more than enough. Excellent.

OTW, I’ll get back to you on the last two comments. I have to digets them first. They sound thoughtful to me.

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May 20th, 2009, 3:56 am

 

139. jad said:

“for me it’s positive that they(the Muslims) become closer to the Christians for several reasons but that doesn’t mean that we should force them by force to change their religion, this is against the teaching of the Bible. And in today Europe/America if Sunnis become Christians it’s for the reason I cited above ,they left their desert in which they were isolated for centuries and nowadays they live among us in Paris, London, Rome, Madrid, New York, Los Angeles, Sidney, and this proximity is enough to attract them to Christianity, nobody forced them even not through proselytism.”

“for me it’s positive that they(the Christians) become closer to the Muslims for several reasons but that doesn’t mean that we should force them by force to change their religion, this is against the teaching of al Quran. And in today Middle East if Christians become Sunnis it’s for the reason I cited above ,they left their villages in which they were isolated for centuries and nowadays they live among us in Damascus ,Beirut, Cairo, Dubai, Casablanca, and this proximity is enough to attract them to Sunni Islam, nobody forced them even not through proselytism.”

“for me it’s positive that they(the Muslims) become closer to the Jews for several reasons but that doesn’t mean that we should force them by force to change their religion, this is against the teaching of the Torah. And in today Israel if Sunnis become Jews it’s for the reason I cited above ,they left their desert in which they were isolated for centuries and nowadays they live among us in Tel Aviv, Eilat, Nazareth, Galilee, Dead Sea, Ashkelon, Negev, Haifa and this proximity is enough to attract them to Judaism, nobody forced them even not through proselytism.”

“for me it’s positive that they(the Shia aka RAFIDI) become closer to the Sunni Muslims for several reasons but that doesn’t mean that we should force them by force to change their religion, this is against the teaching of al Quran. And in today Saudi Arabia if Shias become Sunnis it’s for the reason I cited above ,they left their rocky mountains in which they were isolated for centuries and nowadays they live among us in Jeddah, Riyadh, Medina, Mecca and this proximity is enough to attract them to Sunni Islam, nobody forced them even not through proselytism.”

For Jad all the above is disgusting regardless how you look at it, with or without an idiot schezophreniac support, because your next level will be your own brother who might be a Shafi3i not a 7anbali like you and you want to change him too.

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May 20th, 2009, 4:20 pm

 

140. Shami said:

lol Jad.
Btw,not all the shias are rafida.

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May 20th, 2009, 4:41 pm

 

141. norman said:

Shami,

Who cares , what does it matter , let them go to hell , you do not have to save them , what matter is how good a person is not his religion .

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May 20th, 2009, 4:49 pm

 

142. Ayman Rajai Hakki MD said:

Ford Perfect, and others, may be right…but there’s a lot of inside info missing; one third of the explosives used in the assassination were made in Israel. If anyone needs verification of my claim, contact me and I’ll share with you my source. All I am saying is that this whole story is more complex than; everyone thinks it is this party or that party who is responsible for the murder of Hariri. The Middle East is too complex for simplistic and declarative statement. ARH

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May 28th, 2009, 4:26 pm

 

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