“Why Lieberman?,” by Shai

“Why Lieberman?,”

Written by Shai for Syria Comment

The question has been bothering me, as well as many other Israelis (perhaps even most), for quite some time now.  We didn’t need to wait this long, to hear the controversial speech at the UN, to ask why the Israeli Prime Minister hasn’t fired Lieberman.  We asked this question when Lieberman allowed for the most embarrassing treatment of the Turkish Ambassador earlier this year.  We asked this when the Police disclosed its intention to recommend Lieberman be tried under multiple charges of corruption.  We asked this when Lieberman patronized European foreign ministers, telling them to “first fix your problems” in Europe, before lecturing Israel.  We’ve been asking “Why Lieberman?” again and again, ever since Netanyahu chose him for his post.  Sometimes one finds comfort in unexpected places, even in knowing that others, outside of Israel, are asking the same question.

Speculations about the Netanyahu-Lieberman political-marriage are varied but, surprisingly enough, Israeli media has focused less on “why”, and more on “why-not”.  But the “why” is no less important, and might possibly be a key factor in our common goals towards Peace.  In pondering this question, I’ve come up with a number of reasons, at least some of which I am convinced are true.  By the end of Netanyahu’s term in office, I hope we’ll know whether the rest are true as well.  Here are five reasons why I believe Netanyahu chose Lieberman as Israel’s Foreign Minister, and for now, prefers to keep him there:

1.  Political Pressure-Reducer:

Lieberman, a West Bank settler and a politician with extremist views, is often considered the “loudest dog” in the pack.  Few politicians on the Extreme-Right are more vocal and anti-Peace than Lieberman.  By placing Lieberman as so-called “chief diplomat” for Israel, the man responsible for Israel’s foreign-policy (including that of Peace), Netanyahu assures himself a lot of political quiet-time from the Right and Extreme-Right, his only potential adversaries.  While many suspect, few can openly criticize Netanyahu for endangering Israel, when Lieberman is allowed to speak as he does, at home and abroad.  Notice, “endanger Israel”, from the Right or Extreme-Right point of view, is giving back land.

2.  Foreign Minister doesn’t mean Foreign Policy:

While Lieberman certainly has harmed Israel’s diplomatic relations, most noticeably with our critical and strategic ally Turkey, Netanyahu has made sure that our Foreign MInister does not “come near” our peace negotiations with the Palestinians.  Netanyahu keeps Lieberman busy worldwide, while his own team sits with Mahmoud Abbas and Salam Fayyad.  (Interesting note about Turkey:  As relations continued to deteriorate, Netanyahu apparently sent Labor’s Infrastructure Minister Fouad Ben-Eliezer to Turkey, without informing Lieberman.  Learning of this only upon Fouad’s return, Lieberman was furious.)

3.  Good for Negotiations:

While Lieberman isn’t brought into peace negotiations with the Palestinians, Netanyahu knows that Abu Mazen cannot ignore Lieberman’s views.  If Tzipi Livni were to replace Lieberman, her Center-leaning political profile, and her public statements regarding a two-state solution, would not serve Israel well during negotiations, as Netanyahu might see it.  To close a deal, the other side might need to be reminded that there are those close by, who don’t want to close a deal at all.  If one can maintain even the slightest speculation that such deal-opposers may be candidates one day for PM, this might be viewed by the other side as more a reason to compromise today, for fear of a worse tomorrow.

4.  Good for Outside Pressure:

This might actually be one of the key factors in Netanyahu’s calculations.  If Netanyahu is interested in achieving Comprehensive Peace, and a final end to the Arab-Israeli conflict, then surely he sees his own people as the biggest hurdle to overcome.  He already knows that the Palestinians are ready to compromise over Right-of-Return, over security, and even over territory.  He knows that Syria has promised to meet Israel’s security-demands, and that Israel’s number one ally, the United States, has promised to vouch for Israel’s security.  Netanyahu knows that Security is as close to guaranteed as any PM could ever get.  But he doesn’t know that his people will back him.  He doesn’t know, if his people will be ready to give back the Golan.  Or to vacate hundreds of thousands of Jews, out of their homes in the West Bank.  Or to divide Jerusalem.  He doesn’t know if Israelis will either allow him to do all of these, or ever forgive him for having done so.

But Netanyahu does know, that if he can bring about a situation whereby Israel is “forced to comply”, by her closest allies, or by the threat of sanctions, or even by war, that he can then more easily come before his people and say “Israel’s security depends no less on her relations with her closest allies, than it does on a stretch of land in the West Bank, or on the Golan…”  And if outside pressure is indeed something Netanyahu sees as necessary, then placing Lieberman as Foreign Minister, and allowing him to voice our “Foreign Policy” worldwide, are both logical agitators that can help speed up this pressure.

It is interesting to note, that while the PM’s Office did make a public statement disconnecting itself from Lieberman’s recent speech at the UN (calling it “his personal views, which are not representative of the Israeli government…”), Netanyahu has yet to tell the Israeli media why he keeps Lieberman in this position.  All Israeli media forms have been calling for his resignation, and yet Netanyahu does nothing.

5.  The Countdown Begins after Lieberman is Replaced:

Netanyahu knows that the minute he replaces Lieberman as Foreign Minister, his adversaries will have the political fuel they need, to begin the Offensive that will lead to new Elections.  Lieberman will make Netanyahu look like the next Oslo-selling Rabin, and no political leader from the Right, Center, or Left, could help defend the Prime Minister (and none will want to.)  Netanyahu’s political countdown will begin.  However, it is not unlikely that if serious progress is made on any of the Peace tracks (Palestinian, Syrian or Lebanese), that Netanyahu will be forced to replace Lieberman by Tzipi Livni, to attain a large-enough coalition to carry out the necessary steps towards reaching a final Peace Agreement.  The questions are if and when this countdown will begin.

Final Note:

I have tried to answer the question “Why Lieberman?” without assuming that Netanyahu is interested in Peace.  But clearly my answers aren’t truly-neutral.  Yet the more I considered the second option, the one that many out there believe – that Netanyahu isn’t ready to withdraw to the 1967 lines, the more I found contradictions with keeping Lieberman around.  After all, if the idea was to make time go by, to let the whole world think Israel is doing “everything we can” to bring Peace to the region, to end the Israeli Occupation, to bring about a just end to the Palestinian problem, then what could be easier than letting Ehud Barak or Tzipi Livni be Israel’s Foreign Minister?  Why not form a Center-Right coalition, and let all our best Two-State supporters numb their listeners worldwide, as we have done so well over the years?  Lieberman, in such a case, would be counterproductive.

But to those who still fear Avigdor Lieberman, who still view him as more mainstream than do the Israeli media, the Israeli Police, or the Israeli people, I remind them of the old saying:  “Smaller dogs bark loudest.”


Posted by Alex

Comments (106)


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1. Alex said:

Dear Shai,

Thank you for taking the time to explain.

Your “final note” is relatively convincing against those who argue that Israeli prime ministers follow the same plan that proved successful since the assassination of Prime Minister Rabin … waste time, pretend you are genuinely interested in peace, and continue to build settlements and to wait until younger generations among the Arabs forget about their parent’s attachment to the land.

But if we follow your long term conviction that there are no such plans, that Israeli politicians are the same like any other politicians … mostly interested in staying in power, then Prime minister Netanyahu’s decision to pick Lieberman was simply due to hte fact that he could not reach an agreement with Livni and Kadima, but was able to agree with Lieberman.

The above are my initial thoughts, but in general, I believe that the truth is a combination of the two theories … Israeli politicians do play the standard games (coalition building) when needed to stay in power, but there is also the long term strategy of time wasting … they all believe that time is on Israel’s side as long as the US will not allow the security council to issue any resolution against settlement building.

I think Lieberman’s selection is Netanyahu’s “I am a moderate in comparison to my people” … Netanyahu wants to settle the conflicts after the Arabs accept his terms … no right of return, no Jerusalem, Israeli control of the west bank’s eastern borders with Jordan, and the Golan to Syria only if Syria turns into another obedient Jordan … Lieberman makes those terms seem reasonable. Already western envoys to Syria are using this argument to try to gain concessions from Syria.

As for Israel’s image and the negativity that Lieberman keeps generating, I think Israel (the country) clearly sided with Lieberman against Turkey in general, regardless of opinions after the Turkish Ambassador’s treatment incident.

Netanyahu believes that hte rest of the world will tolerate anything from Israel …. but the Israeli public (with a majority on the right) is much more difficult to please and satisfy.

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October 31st, 2010, 4:03 pm

 

2. Norman said:

Dear Shai, Alex ,

I am glad that you agree with me that for Netanyahu to seek peace he has to show his people that he is forced to and until then he is keeping Lieberman to protect his right and to look like the moderate in the world eyes , but if he is forced , through legal, military or economic means then he can justify his peace move . at that time Lieberman will jump up and down , Netanyahu will activate the indictment pending against him (Lieberman) and replace him with Kadima ,

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October 31st, 2010, 5:48 pm

 

3. Ghat Al Bird said:

Found Shair commentary entertaining but to be quite candid somewhat irrelevent to the most pressing and prominent state of the Israeli decade old transgressions and wars against the Palestenians and other Arab states.

Why Lieberman could just as well be why not Lieberman or “Why ADAM PERLMAN AliaS ADAM GADHAN. An American zionist claiming to be an Al queda member.

The two sentences one used by SHAI and the other by Gordon Duff bespeak a view that is rather interesting

SHAIR’s sentence in referencing Lieberman: “Smaller dogs bark loudest.”

DUFF’s sentence : “If you were to capture a vicious rabid dog in the wilderness and turned it loose in a children’s playground, would you be a terrorist?”

Lieberman, Adam Perlmann/Gadhan and un named others both in and out of Israel have one and only one objective that is pursued. Still the two mentioned qualify as interesting characters in the over all scheme of things.

Gordon Duff – (US) Veterans Today October 25, 2010

“Israeli terrorist “clones” are responsible for most hard line rhetoric, threats and, if we investigated closely, have actually recruited terrorists and directly inspired, if not planned and executed, attacks on Americans…Gadahn is part of it, so is Wikileaks”

A call to arms, demanding Muslims in America and elsewhere begin a terror campaign, was spread around the world. The message, we are told, was found on a “secret website” by an Israeli company who put it in a press release.

There is no evidence any American Muslim has ever been on the website referred to, no American intelligence agency could find it, not the CIA or the FBI or Homeland Security. There was only one way the 300,000 Muslims of Detroit could hear call to terrorism, from an Israeli company that passes on such messages for profit.

Does it create them too? You be the judge.

Let’s look at a possible analogy. If you were to capture a vicious rabid dog in the wilderness and turned it loose in a children’s playground, would you be a terrorist?

This is essentially what is being admitted to.

What is in question, another analogy, is whether you purposefully infected the dog with rabies in the first place. Either way, you are a terrorist.

Adam Gadahn, the “American Taliban,” the lisping, overweight bungler continually calling for the murder of Americans is really named Adam Perlman from a family highly influential in the Anti-Defamation League. The group distributing his threats, SITE Intelligence, contracted to the American government, is run by a former IDF member whose father was executed in Iraq as a Mossad terrorist. SITE Intelligence is the source of the Osama bin Laden tapes long proven to be, not only the wrong voice, but to resemble bin Laden so little as to have become a joke.

Gadahn came on the scene when tapes of Osama bin Laden claiming credit for 9/11 failed forensic examination. They were counterfeits. The CIA’s own version had bin Laden denying any involvement. (See APPENDIX below for official CIA transcript)

This was late 2001 and Americans hadn’t been told that the story about Tora Bora, the many stories about Tora Bora, warlords covering for bin Laden, American troops being pulled back at the last minute by presidential order or the Delta Force being betrayed, were all lies. Osama bin Laden, already dying from kidney failure, was murdered by one of his own men on December 14, 2001.

Pakistan’s ISI had informants there, it was leaked to the newspapers and was widely reported. Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto even announced it in an interview with BBC’s David Frost.

With a 9/11 denial “on the books” and bin Laden dead, there would be no invasion of Iraq, no new leader was “in place” to bring out for the American people, no new “boogeyman.”

The very real conspiracy, covering up the sickening truth about 9/11, the treasonous intelligence doctoring leading to the disaster in Iraq and the upcoming years of building a drug empire in Afghanistan, stealing billions in oil from Iraq, the thinly disguised martial law decrees in America and the planned attack on Iran, was threatened unless, somehow, Osama bin Laden could be brought back to life.

Nearly a decade later, Pakistan’s intelligence chief, General Pasha does everything but scream it from rooftops, when he carefully hints to a dull witted ABC interviewer that bin Laden is dead. Journalist Arnaud de Borchgrave of UPI and Washington Times fame, makes it as clear as possible when he says “Bin Laden is as dead as Elvis.” Even CIA director Leon Panetta confirms there is no evidence of bin Laden since “late 2001.”

With bin Laden dead, it all falls apart, Al Qaeda, 9/11, and the continual accusations made against Pakistan. Still, we hear it. Bin Laden touring Afghanistan or as with last weeks report, “living in luxury” in Iran.

Not only is bin Laden dead but when he was alive, the BBC confirmed that he had absolutely no terrorist organization of any kind, masterminded no plots, controlled no organizations and had no more involvement on the world stage other than, at one time, helping the CIA raise money to fund refugee organizations during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.

Contrary to what has been reported, bin Laden never raised money for weapons. That task was left to Gulbuddin Hikmatyar, the CIA paymaster who received $800,000,000 in US funds. Today we are told Hikmatyar may be in Iran. However, we have verified that he is actually in Pakistan, working directly with the CIA as “go between” with the Taliban, taking an active role in the current talks with the Karzai government. Few in Afghanistan trust Hikmatyar, long a favorite with CIA and Pakistan “hard liners.”

If anything, the myth of Osama bin Laden is actually Hikmatyar. What is said bin Laden did in Afghanistan was always Hikmatyar, CIA “moneyman” and terrorist. Problem is, he is still a CIA moneyman and terrorist, flying on American planes, going on and off American bases but listed with the Department of Homeland Security as one of the most wanted terrorists in the world. The truth, Hikmatyar is seen by the US as their “dealmaker” in Afghanistan, something many in Afghanistan find both frightening and delusional.

Perhaps one of the most frightening issues of the ‘war on terror’ or, more appropriately, ‘the phony war on terror’ has been the use of ‘terrorist clones’ like Adam Perlman, the Israeli actor playing a Taliban leader on videos distributed by Israeli intelligence. The real insanity is that the videos aren’t produced to just fool Americans into rebuilding the coalition of Islamophobics and paranoids typified by the subscribers of http://www.familysecuritymatters.org . Please, visit this website. See if everything on it doesn’t just scream

“Look out, the boogeyman is coming, quick, hide under your bed!”

Things aren’t that innocent. Much of the message is going to the Islamic community worldwide and is reaching people who are angry and looking for someone to blame. Those funding Adam Gadhan, those magically finding his mysterious broadcasts and those distributing them to the world are giving material support to terrorism. They are, in fact, terrorists.

The message they, our friends, you know exactly who I mean, are spreading is clear:

“Attack and kill Americans, not just in Iraq and Afghanistan, but anywhere you can find them in the world. They are the real enemy, not Israel.”

Does anyone wonder why Gadahn never calls for attacks on Israel? In fact, Al Qaeda doesn’t seem to know Israel exists. They never threaten Israel. They never attack Israel. They never even mention Israel, never. All those Osama bin Laden and Adam Perlman, sorry, “Adam Gadahn” tapes have one thing in common.

Israel doesn’t exist. Get the picture? Here is what Perlman, lets be straight about it, his name is Perlman, his family is Jewish, Zionist, and very active in the ADL. This is what he or is it ‘they” are advocating in this statement released yesterday:

“emigrant communities like those which live on the margins of society in the miserable suburbs of Paris, London and Detroit, or are from those arriving in America or Europe to study in its universities or seek their daily bread in the streets of its cities….you have an opportunity to strike the leaders of unbelief and retaliate against them on their own soil, as long as there is no covenant between you and them”

Clear and simple, we are hearing what Israel is telling the world, the Muslim world, is the voice of Al Qaeda. What is Israel, or rather “Al Qaeda” telling us?

Please attack Britain, France and the United States but leave Israel alone.

Detroit has Muslim population of 300,000 yet, the one terrorist attack there was done by a mentally incompetent Nigerian national. Do you remember the “crotch bomber?” Do you wonder why the story disappeared from the news so quickly? When two Detroit attorneys caught airport officials putting the terrorist on a plane, airport officials working for an Israeli company, things fell apart. When Veterans Today discovered from intelligence sources in both Nigeria and Ghana that the boy’s family was not only tied directly to the CIA but the father was a business partner in an Israeli defense firm, it came apart further. When this came out, a news “blackout” fell and the story died.

When the government of Yemen found laptop computers belonging to “Al Qaeda” that showed a clear record of daily contacts with “handlers” in Israel, the story died totally.

The Detroit bombing told us two things:

The vast majority of American Muslims are Americans and have no loyalty to religious extremists or any other country. That is “those other guys.” American Muslims are mostly, not only Republicans but politically active in the party and very conservative.

Terrorists can’t move around the world without help, either visas, real or phony, passports, security”walk arounds” and more. If a grandmother with a knitting needle and an American passport could never, under any imaginable circumstances, get on a plane in Schipol Airport, how did a single male, Nigeria, Muslim, no passport at all…he wasn’t carrying any identification of any kind and, this is the best part, a bomb strapped to his genitals get seated on a plane ahead of the rest of the passengers. Remember, you first have to get into a country with no passport, around immigration, then you have to go through airport security and prove you have proper immigration documents then you are checked again before boarding. Abdul Mohammed, without Mossad help, stood a better chance of winning the Irish Sweepstakes than getting on that plane.

Is that a bomb in your pants or are you just glad to see me?

THE PERLMAN/WIKILEAKS “NON-EVENT”

For years, Perlman, masquerading as a spokesman for Al Qaeda, has put out childish videos, all time to help certain political races, influence arms sales to Israel, or as with yesterday’s treat, to reinforce the Wikileaks fiasco, another attempt to con America. Last time Wikileaks tried to get the US to cut all aid to Pakistan, an act which would have made the war in Afghanistan even worse than it is now, if that’s possible. This one is time to a Wikileak “custom crafted” to blame the world’s ills on Iran, target number one for Israel. As a “three fer,” the New York Times and MSNBC went after Iran for “secretly” buying off President Karzai of Afghanistan.

We knew Karzai was aligned with India and Israel against Pakistan. Now he is “owned” by Iran? How many sides can one person be on?

When I was in Pakistan earlier in the year, Gadahn was said to be hiding in an apartment building in Karachi. The building was stormed, “Gadahn” was captured, a “Gadahn,” not “the Gadahn.” It seems that a “look alike” had been used to leave a false trail, the real Adam Perlman was safe and sound elsewhere, some place with video studios. The individual recruiting real terrorists to kill real Americans with real bombs is a real Israeli, no question about that, and not the first time.

It is also believed that the new “Al Qaeda” operations chief, Adnan Shukrijumah of Brooklyn, New York and Miami Beach is another Israeli creation, a phony terrorist, an actor, much like the phony “bin Ladens” of every shape and size used to scare small children after the death of the real bin Laden in December 2001.

During comprehensive briefings with Pakistans ISPR, the group that briefs people like, well, Secretary Clinton, it was made clear to me that we were all on the same page, Osama bin Laden is dead. There was much discussion, some of it humorous, as how to let people know. After short discussions on this with ISPR DG General Athar Abbas I was summoned to a “mysterious” meeting.

This was General Ahmed Shurja Pasha, Director General of Pakistan’s intelligence service known as the ISI. During a private lunch with his top aide, Commodore Zafar Iqbal and author Jeff Gates, who was accompanying me on a lecture tour, one of the areas of discussion was dishonesty in journalism. An interview with a very prominent American journalist that General Pasha had held had been falsified. Statements regarding Pakistan and Mumbai were simply invented. This wasn’t the first time I had run into this. A widely published interview between the editor of a Washington newspaper and former ISI Chief General Hamid Gul was similarly fabricated.

When I made reference to the Gul interview in an article, he phoned me. Gul, an editor at Veterans Today, a co-worker and good friend, pointed out that the interview never happened and was entirely made up. Another “famous journalist” with an agenda simply invented a story, had it published around the world, and the real truth would be lost forever. Between video editing, phony interviews and released audio and video tapes of dead or non-existent “terrorists,” the media has ended up being as strong a force promoting extremism and conflict as the real issues, which, frankly, none of us are that sure about anymore.

People like Pakistan’s Imran Khan, who talk about extremism in realistic terms are seldom listened to. How can I prove this? Do you know who Imran Khan is? There is your answer.

IF THESE PLOYS DON’T WORK, CAN WE EXPECT ANOTHER 9/11?

This week, something surprising happened in Australia. In a world where you can’t tun on a television without hearing how crazy people are who question the 9/11 cover story, even though Fox News seems to have changed sides on this issue, what you don’t see are public opinion polls on 9/11. If Bill Maher or Jon Stewart, the “liberal progressives” of American television, with their continual attacks on “the right” show us one thing it is that, no matter how much you may find government a pack of useless liars, the magic “boxcutter and pancaking building” story on 9/11 must be adhered to. Even though those the 9/11 Truth movement blame, the Americans anyway, are you most vile political enemies, when it comes to 9/11, you attack anyone who questions the Bush/Cheney doctrine like a rabid field mouse.

There is a reason for this. The ability to repeat 9/11, contain an investigation, keep press assets focused on a cover story few take seriously anymore, is vital. Without the ability to blow up an American city and blame Iran or an imaginary terrorist group, the “Masters of the Universe” will lose their ability to control the fate of the human race.

Thus, everything we have seen since 9/11 has been done to prepare us for the next 9/11. The last one finished Saddam, looted the American economy and imposed martial law on the United States. Iran and Pakistan still stand. With all the terror warnings, phony stories about imaginary nuclear programs, the threats, the sanctions and even Wikileaks, it all isn’t going to be enough.

America is sick of war and not very likely to believe the media, not anymore. Big problem here, when you attack anyone’s credibility, the Bush administration, Obama, Tony Blair, eventually people begin to question you too.

Watch Wikileaks dribble away into nothing. Watch the news try to pump air into this story and spin it against Iran.

When that fails, maybe it will be time to hide under your bed after all.

Source: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/10/24/gordon-duff-gadahn-call-to-attack-americans-comes-from-israel/

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October 31st, 2010, 7:29 pm

 

4. Akbar Palace said:

Few politicians on the Extreme-Right are more vocal and anti-Peace than Lieberman.

Shai,

What makes you think Lieberman is “anti-peace”? And what makes you think Abbas isn’t anti-peace?

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Speeches+by+Israeli+leaders/2010/FM_Liberman_Addresses_UN_General_Assembly_28-Sep-2010.htm

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October 31st, 2010, 11:19 pm

 

5. Alex said:

Akbar,

What makes you think milk is white and what makes you think Hummus is beige?

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October 31st, 2010, 11:24 pm

 

6. Shai said:

Alex, Norman,

I don’t know if Netanyahu is planning to become THE prime minister to end the Arab-Israeli conflict, or whether he plans to just waste time. I have a feeling that he didn’t work his butt off for the past near-decade, since he lost the elections so miserably in 2000, and brought up the Likud from 12 seats to 27, to just “waste more time”. He knows what you and I know, that if there’s someone in Israel that can deliver and receive the backing of most Israelis (some from the Right, and all of the Left and Center), it’s him. I don’t need to be optimistic or exercise wishful thinking to know this. But he actually WILL do, is something none of us know.

Unlike his predecessors, Bibi is far more pragmatic. Even Rabin didn’t dare send emissaries directly to Assad to offer the Golan, as Bibi did in 1996. Bibi, who swore to never shake the hand of “that terrorist” Arafat, not only kissed him on the cheek, but also handed over control of the largest cities to the PA. But unlike Barak, Bibi won’t risk his neck (and didn’t bring about early-elections, after barely a year in power), and won’t make major moves until he is sure he has the backing of his people. As you said, he probably needs to make them feel “forced to do so.”

In a perfect world, politicians would be telling us the truth, exactly what’s on their mind. If you think about it, the reason why Lieberman is such a terrible politician and especially diplomat, is because he tells us exactly what he feels, and it happens to be extremely dangerous. Bibi won’t share with us his plans, if they include returning territory back to the 1967 lines. It makes no sense that he’ll do that, until he’s sure he can. Even Sharon did this in steps. Olmert wanted to continue. But no one will be like Barak, with sudden, overnight withdrawals.

Tzipi Livni is hopeless. Don’t count on her. She was given 3 opportunities to become Prime Minister, and didn’t take them up. Two of those, she was handed on a silver plate, and refused. Kadima under her leadership has voiced no alternative whatsoever whilst in Opposition. So what will she suddenly do now? If Bibi needs her, he’ll make her FM instead of Lieberman.

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November 1st, 2010, 2:28 am

 

7. Shai said:

Akbar,

Your question is valid, if we’re not clear on the definition of Peace. Does Peace mean “accepting everything the other side demands”? Does it mean compromising on everything? Does it mean reaching out, and trying to do what others in the past have failed to achieve?

Lieberman, as Israel’s chief-diplomat, spoke before the UN and said “Peace will not occur for decades more…” I don’t know what he meant, but it sure didn’t sound like a Foreign Minister that would push for Peace in the region. It sounded like someone that was still intent on forcing Israeli interests on others.

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November 1st, 2010, 2:32 am

 

8. dourgoat said:

If Bibi is hoping to be forced into a peace deal, presumably by the US, should he not be doing something to reign in AIPAC, pro-Israeli congressmen and the like, given that they seem to be doing a decent job of pressuring Obama not to put real pressure on Israel? Is there any evidence of this happening? I don’t see how real pressure from the US is a realistic possibility given the political realities of the US at the moment.

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November 1st, 2010, 3:23 am

 

9. Akbar Palace said:

The Blind leading the Bigoted

Shai,

As I’ve stated many times before, your presence here on Syria Comment fills an important void. The anti-Zionists here need you to “confirm” their hatred, suspicions and misconceptions about Israel. A liberal and Jewish Israel critic such as you fits in nicely here.

I don’t know what he meant, but it sure didn’t sound like a Foreign Minister that would push for Peace in the region.

Shai,

If you don’t know what he meant, than why do you say, “ Few politicians on the Extreme-Right are more vocal and anti-Peace than Lieberman”?

But of course, you didn’t answer my rather simple questions.

You also didn’t quote the Israeli foreign minister’s statement:

“We are ready for a fair solution and we are ready to cooperate with the international community.”

Once you answer my questions, then we can disect Iran, Syria, Hamas, the PLO, Hezbollah and their charters to see if you think these organizations are doing a better job than Avigdor Lieberman.

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November 1st, 2010, 7:04 am

 

10. Ghat Al Bird said:

The Bigoted leading the Blind.

A hundred year old church was burned Friday by right-wing Israeli settlers, who broke a number of windows of the church and hurled Molotov cocktails inside.

The damage to the church was substantial, with burn damage throughout the first floor of the building.

The church was built in Jerusalem in 1897, and housed the Palestinian Bible College until 1947, when parishioners were pushed out by Jewish armed gangs during the violence accompanying the creation of the state of Israel.

Christians make up 2% of the population of both Israel and the Palestinian Territories – the number used to be around 15%, but many Christians from the Holy Land have emigrated due to the harsh conditions of the Israeli occupation, and discrimination against them by the Israeli state.

This is not the first time that Israeli right-wingers have destroyed churches and church property – a number of Chrisitan churches were destroyed during the second initfada (uprising) that began in 2000, and many more were destroyed by Israeli forces during the 1948 and 67 wars.

In 2006, an Israeli couple tried to firebomb an ancient church in Nazareth, the city where Chrisitans believe that Jesus Christ lived 2000 years ago. An Israeli court which tried the case failed to convict the couple of any charges.

A leader in the church attacked on Friday, Zachariah al-Mashriqi, told reporters that the attack on the church was a clear attempt to provoke Palestinians to respond in anger. He urged Palestinian Christians to respond to the attack with virtue and patience.

Al-Mashriqi urged the Israeli government to act responsibly and condemn the attack, and work on investigating the attack to find out who was involved and actually file charges in the case. He asked the Israeli government to protect holy sites in the city of Jerusalem, as these sites come under increasing attack by Israeli settlers.

Source > Imemc News

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November 1st, 2010, 7:35 am

 

11. 5 dancing shlomos said:

re read comments 3 and 10

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November 1st, 2010, 11:42 am

 

12. Ghat Al Bird said:

THE HATRED BIGOTRY AND THE SOLE ZIOMIST OBJECTIVE.

It should be quite apparent to ALL Arabs/Muslims that Israel is but one symbol of their dedicated opponents. Wherever there are Jewish zionists and their sympathisers in the world there also exists a dedicated one.

Below is an examplery display of the zionists sole objectives.

WashPost: War with Iran would rescue economy.

By Daniel Tencer
Sunday, October 31st, 2010 — 1:33 pm

Washington Post political correspondent David Broder has kind words for President Barack Obama in in his opinion column Sunday, arguing that it isn’t the president’s fault the economy is stuck in reverse.

But the four-decade-plus veteran of Washington politics offers a startling solution to the president’s political and economic woes: March off to war with Iran.

He writes that there are “essentially” two ways that an economy can be grown: Through the natural economic cycle, and through war.

“Look back at FDR and the Great Depression. What finally resolved that economic crisis? World War II.”

“Here is where Obama is likely to prevail. With strong Republican support in Congress for challenging Iran’s ambition to become a nuclear power, he can spend much of 2011 and 2012 orchestrating a showdown with the mullahs.”

“This will help him politically because the opposition party will be urging him on. And as tensions rise and we accelerate preparations for war, the economy will improve.”

“I am not suggesting, of course, that the president incite a war to get reelected,” Broder qualifies. “But the nation will rally around Obama because Iran is the greatest threat to the world in the young century.”

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November 1st, 2010, 12:22 pm

 

13. Shai said:

Akbar,

The fact that you used that quote, to demonstrate Lieberman’s hopes for Peace, is kind of funny. And I’ll prove it to you, by using the same quote, with a different speaker:

“We are ready for a fair solution and we are ready to cooperate with the international community.” – Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Lieberman’s version of a “fair solution” entails the transfer not only of territory, but now also people! He is ready to transfer hundreds of thousands of Arab-Israelis (not Jewish-Israelis as far as I know) to another country. I don’t know why, call me crazy, but to me that hints more of innate racism, than of a Peace-seeking politician. What do you think?

As for Abbas, he has become such an Israeli and U.S. puppet, that his “intentions” are no longer relevant. Even if he wanted to negotiate on behalf of his people, to pretend to be our rival (enemy), he couldn’t. We, and America, haven’t learned our lesson yet. Peace you make with your enemy, not with your puppet, the one you supply money, guns, and security to.

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November 1st, 2010, 12:47 pm

 

14. Yossi said:

Rub my eyes, Shai is writing again for SC and chatting with Alex and Norman. It’s the good old times again :-)

I believe the main reason Leiberman is foreign minister is that Bibi didn’t have much choice, combined with the rest of the arguments that Shai presents. Basically, to get Livni into the government she’d have Bibi commit to a much more explicit line with respect to the two-state solution that Bibi is not yet (or at all) ready for.

I also agree with Ghat that “why Lieberman” is not a very interesting question. A more pressing question is when’s the next war going to start, how, who’ll get involved and what would be the death toll on each side.

With respect to Akbar quibbling about who is and who isn’t “pro-peace”, I think this just illustrates how the “peace” word is being used as a cover for various agendas. Peace is not a priority for either Jews or Palestinians, nor is it attainable. Security and freedom are. The sides cannot reach and end-of-conflict settlement but they could possibly be forced to reach an agreement (maybe an implicit one) on end-of-hostilities conditioned on Israeli withdrawal from the west bank.

Regardless of whether Lieberman is pro or against “peace”, he is a menace for Israel, by far the most dangerous politician to Israel’s future, as he is actively acting to undermine the entire legal underpinning for the state’s legitimacy by redefining its borders and citizenry, and by bluntly acting against the policy of the government he’s ostensibly part of.

For the lovers of conspiracy theories it is pretty clear that there is a possibility that Lieberman is a KGB-trained “Manchurian candidate”. The damage he is causing to Israel is almost too obvious.

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November 1st, 2010, 2:41 pm

 

15. Shai said:

Yossi,

Good to see you here as well! I agree with you that “when’s war coming?” is a more interesting question than “why Lieberman”. Can you help shed some light on this question? :-)

There is no doubt whatsoever that Lieberman is causing untold damage to the State of Israel. If there was ever an “anti-Zionist”, Lieberman fits the description.

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November 1st, 2010, 2:52 pm

 

16. Yossi said:

Hi Shai,

Following the famous saying that people should put their mouth where their money is (or the other way around :-)) I checked the status of the bets on InTrade to see what $ value people assign to the possibility of Israel and/or the US attacking Iran. Currently the market says there is a 35% to 53% chance of an attack this year, and 73% to 80% of this happening by March. The minimum contract is $25 so maybe it doesn’t say anything as people are just fooling around with their wishful thinking without putting a lot of money on the line. But come to think of it, how else is Obama going to save his popularity and the economy…

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November 1st, 2010, 4:12 pm

 

17. Yossi said:

Sorry Shai, I misread the numbers, divide them by 10… so it’s only ~8% that a strike would happen by March.

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November 1st, 2010, 4:35 pm

 
 

19. Norman said:

Shai, Yossi,

It is good to see you here both , you should come more often ,

Knowing that probably 80% of Israeli want peace but understanding that about 80% of Israeli also do not want to give land to the Palestinians or the Syrians ,

How do you see Netanyahu convincing his people of the Price they have to pay for peace and will he be able to convince them ,
i doubt it without outside pressure ,

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November 1st, 2010, 9:08 pm

 
 

21. LeoLeoni said:

I received this in my mailbox yesterday. This is not a joke, it’s an actual political ad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umTITWQuXwY&feature=player_embedded

It’s a shame that some American politicians are so bankrupt that they are resorting to this kind of racism and fear mongering to seek voters. But this isn’t the most thing that bothered me in this video. The actual reason I posted this here is because the one acting as a bomb maker in the video is Syrian. He appears in the following interview to justify racial profiling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQIP0LNHel0&feature=related

I just can’t believe a Syrian would be involved in such a naive and racist political ad targeting his own ethnicity and identity. He seems unaware of what racial profiling means or what it could possibly lead to.

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November 1st, 2010, 11:38 pm

 

22. Yossi said:

Norman,

Thank you for your welcoming words, it’s always a pleasure staying in your company.

Perhaps you’re being too charitable towards PM Netanyahu? The man is supposed to have 180 IQ and is very opaque about what he really wants so who am I to read to tea leaves? But the most straight forward assumption would be to believe what he said and is saying—which is to deal with Iran, is his true charter.

With the Palestinians he says he can reach an “envelope agreement”. To me this sounds like a resuscitation of the Oslo accords with the goal of buying more time. At any rate, if he isn’t going to be pushed against a wall, he’s not going to jump the gun and offer them anything. If he is pushed against the wall, then he’ll cut a deal—not with the Palestinians, but with the Americans. The content of the deal will be some form of limited autonomy for the Palestinians with the lip service of possible statehood in the future. This will be enough to get the world opinion off his back, and he won’t feel he has betrayed the Likud and Begin’s legacy. Then if the need arises and the PA doesn’t collaborate enough, Israel could find a pretext to pounce and reverse the autonomy, as has happened in the second intifada.

If you believe that attacking Iran is a given, then do you think that first he’ll negotiate with the Palestinians, and then attack Iran, or first attack Iran and then negotiate? Since he likely views the negotiations with the Palestinians as a concession to the Americans, and being the hard-ball player that he is, he’s probably going to manage to squeeze the Americans to first act on the Iran issue, and then enter negotiations. Not the other way around. He’ll tell the Americans that there is no reason to do things in the reverse order because an attack during the negotiations will lead to their breakdown.

But, if and when the day comes and he has to finally deliver and withdraw from territory, then yes, I agree with you, it will be much easier for him (and for Abbas for that matter) to appear as if they have no choice but to bow to international pressure.

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November 2nd, 2010, 3:27 am

 

23. Shai said:

Norman,

Also very good to be in your company. Regarding your question and Yossi’s response, I think much more simplistically about it, and maybe I’m wrong.

I think the Palestinian track is hopeless, until all the other tracks are concluded, precisely because it is the hardest of them all. To uproot hundreds of thousands of Jews from their homes, to redraw maps with borders that probably span many hundreds of kilometers, to divide the capital of Israel, to reach a “just solution” to the refugee problem, all of these seem insurmountable when compared to the Golan, or a few villages on the Lebanese border.

The way forward, I believe, is via Syria. It is the only track that is almost 90% done. Not only Assad says so, also our Intelligence chiefs, and all those that have ever negotiated with Syria. It is the easiest track, and one that can have a tremendous effect on all the others. Lebanon will soon follow suit, as will the rest of the Arab World. The Palestinian issue will be last, but it will receive much better conditions, because EVERYONE will be in a different mood, including all Israelis. Pressure on Israel and on the Palestinians will be a POSITIVE pressure, from the entire Arab World, and from the rest of the World. It will be the toughest hurdle, but it’ll be the last one.

As Yossi suggested, Bibi’s main problem isn’t Palestine right now, or Syria, it’s Iran. Therefore I’m convinced that if he could somehow “solve the Iranian problem”, he’ll be ready to solve other problems as well. So the question for him is how to solve the Iranian issue. And I think so far the answer has been “I can’t…” If an attack would have solved the problem, they would have already attacked. Are they waiting for a nuclear explosion in the deserts of Iran? Maybe, but I doubt it. There has been enough talk around the world of the Iranian threat (whether real or perceived), that Israel could have attacked a year and two ago, and given the same “explanation” as it would if it attacked tomorrow morning. Delaying an attack only risked a point of no-return, so I can’t see a plan for an attack in the future. Again, maybe I’m wrong.

But if Netanyahu could somehow deliver a “solution” to the Iranian threat via, for example, Syria, then I think he would consider it. He know he can’t make Syria dump Iran. But if Netanyahu could say to his people “Iran’s link to our region has been severed!”, he might go for it. If Syria was ready to change its strategic alliance (specifically military) with Iran, and ensure that no Iranian weaponry would pass through her territory to Lebanon, HA, Hamas, etc., that might be enough. Netanyahu cannot ask his people to give up on the Golan, just because Peace is better than War. He has to deliver something with it, namely Iran (and indirectly Hezbollah).

As long as America, Israel, and the Palestinians are continuing to play their little game, there’s probably little chance for progress on other tracks. I wouldn’t be surprised if Netanyahu is maneuvering the talks in such a way that would lead to a dead-end, and would “force Israel” to turn to the other tracks. To be forced, could come either through Ally-pressure, threat of sanctions, war, or a peace agreement on the other tracks. I’m sure one of those four will take place, and I hope he prefers the latter.

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November 2nd, 2010, 5:17 am

 

24. Norman said:

Shai, Yossi,

Do you think that a nuclear Iran is what Netanyahu needs to seek peace telling his people that Israel needs friends around it to block access to Israel from Iran ,

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November 2nd, 2010, 7:57 am

 

25. Ghat Al Bird said:

. WHY-DISCUSS

THANKS FOR LINKS IN #18 ABOVE. VERY INTERESTING SCENARIOS.

Makes sense that with increasing demands from the EAST for OIL the WEST (US/EUROPE) have to seriously re- consider their policies in the Middle East.

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November 2nd, 2010, 9:54 am

 

26. why-discuss said:

SHAI

“If Syria was ready to change its strategic alliance (specifically military) with Iran, and ensure that no Iranian weaponry would pass through her territory to Lebanon”

That Syria does not allow weaponry for Hezboallah, it may be. But renouncing to a strong and durable alliance with Iran that has started since 1978, for a whimsical alliance with the US who are trying desperately to hang on the oil countries in the Middle east against the strong Chinese push in the region, that would be ill thinking!
Syria is a weak country militarily, it cant rely on the US whose foreign policy is never for the good of the people but for its own good. Syria is not Israel, it does not have the money and the lobbies and the guilt to defend it.
Iran is a regional power with strong cultural ties with the arab countries. It is here to stay and it is absurd to think that it can be ostracized.Iran will find its way and will become stronger with time, every country would want to be an ally to Iran then.
Iranians have good memory, they know who are their friend and the ones who act as friends just to exploit them. And Syria is a friend, the US is not.

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November 2nd, 2010, 10:02 am

 

27. 5 dancing shlomos said:

could not connect to links at 18.

curious. what makes,how is the u.s. oil insecure? stupidity and israel and jewry?

a zionist is a zionist is a criminal thief – no matter how sweet.

talk is cheap. talk is a tactic.

i take your home.

for the sake of peace and because i am a good person, i will let you live in the out house out back. far away. though it is non functioning(no outlet, overflows) and is surrounded by a high wall without free egress and you will still be on a diet supplemented by no medicines, no medical care(your alive. such things are frivolous) and we do not want to see you or hear you. if you make life unbearable by your nearness, we will have to terminate both the agreement and you.

shalom,

a zionist. any zionist. blindfolded, select one from a bag.

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November 2nd, 2010, 1:18 pm

 

28. Yossi said:

Norman,

No, I don’t think so. I think that in the Israeli security architecture the only path that is allowed is that Israel remain the only nuclear power in the Mideast, and that means they’ll have to act against Iran. “Dealing” with Iran by further concessions to Syria is not going to stop the entire Mideast from acquiring nuclear weapons and will not be seen as a method to block the Iranians, who can threaten Israel from afar and don’t really need Syria for that. Israel will act against Iran the same way it has acted against Iraq when they were developing nuclear capabilities. Israel is just waiting for the right moment and in the meanwhile doing whatever it can to sabotage the Iranian nuclear effort (e.g. Stuxnet).

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November 2nd, 2010, 1:40 pm

 

29. 5 dancing shlomos said:

29.10.10, haaretz

Shas spiritual leader may back ban on renting to Arabs

Former chief rabbi Ovadia Yosef cites centuries-old interpretation of halakhic ruling barring the sale of land to non-Jews.
By Chaim Levinson and Jack Khoury

A former chief rabbi of Israel on Thursday backed a centuries-old interpretation of Jewish religious law barring the sale of land to non-Jews.

Days after a group of rabbis urged Safed residents not to rent apartments to Arabs, former Chief Rabbi Ovadia Yosef reiterated a 500-year-old halakhic ruling barring the sale of land in the Land of Israel to non-Jews – a move that appeared to be a show of support for the other rabbis.

wonder how these holy-of-holies feel about returning palestinian land to palestinians.

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November 2nd, 2010, 2:27 pm

 

30. 5 dancing shlomos said:

edit function not working.

“sale of land in the Land of Israel to non-Jews”

change to: “sale of land in the Land of palestine to non-Jews”

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November 2nd, 2010, 2:31 pm

 

31. norman said:

Yossi, Shai,
Then we should not be hopeful of any peaceful end ,

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November 2nd, 2010, 2:56 pm

 

32. Yossi said:

Norman,

I am sorry my friend, but I would bet on another big war, then there’ll be peace. It turns out like you’ve always said it would be.

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November 2nd, 2010, 3:53 pm

 

33. Shai said:

Norman, Yossi,

I don’t believe Israel can stop Iran from achieving nuclear capabilities, just as The West could not stop Russia, China, N. Korea, India, Pakistan, or Libya. If Iran is intent on going nuclear, it will. Israel knows this, and if still decides to attack, will be doing so calculating that a short-delay (a few years) is worth an all-out regional war. Personally, I doubt Israel is ready to gamble this much, like it did with Osirak in 1982.

Why Discuss,

What do you think Assad is thinking when he sees Ahmadinejad visiting the South of Lebanon? Is he thinking strong cultural ties, or Iranian-controlled Lebanon? It can’t be, that Syria is not concerned with the close relationship Iran has been developing with HA and Hamas. I can’t believe that the modern President of Syria prefers a strong relationship (based on a few decades) with an Iran that seems interested in parts of the Arab World, over a new relationship with the United States.

Having said this, I still maintain that the best thing that can happen to Israel, is to make peace with Syria, and have it REMAIN a strong ally of Iran! I completely agree with you – isolating Iran is not the way, just as isolating N. Korea wasn’t and isn’t.

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November 2nd, 2010, 4:08 pm

 

34. Jad/2 said:

Jeffrey Feltman http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/11/01/AR2010110106306.html:

“Syria has said that it wishes to have its territorial expectations met through a peace agreement with Israel and that Syria recognizes the essential role that we can play in achieving that,”

“[before that] Syria needs to pressure Iran and Hezbollah to rein in their activities in Lebanon”

[Autrement dit] http://friday-lunch-club.blogspot.com/2010/11/jeffrey-feltman-logic-to-syria-commit.html#links

“Commit suicide & maybe (maybe) we’ll talk about those ‘Heights’…” [lol]

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November 2nd, 2010, 6:18 pm

 

35. Shai said:

You don’t have to be an Intelligence Chief to understand this. Let us hope it isn’t inevitable, and that cooler minds will prevail.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/idf-intelligence-chief-israel-s-next-war-will-see-heavy-casualties-1.322484

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November 3rd, 2010, 3:54 am

 

36. Alex said:

Yossi, great to see you here!

Shai, I rarely pay attention to public statements on military or intelligence issues. If there is anything valuable there, it would be discussed in closed sessions.

Today Lieberman’s foreign ministry did another of its signature “welcome to Israel” moves.

Just like American VP Joe Biden was welcomed through an announcement of new settlement projects in Occupied Arab lands, William Hague, UK foreign secretary was welcomed to Israel through an announcement that Israel is halting “strategic dialogue” with the UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11681989

“The Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman denied that the latest development was a deliberate “ambush” to humiliate Mr Hague.”

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November 3rd, 2010, 1:10 pm

 

37. Shai said:

Alex, I don’t know who said it first, but indeed it seems Lieberman is the best Israeli Foreign Minister the Palestinians could have hoped for…

He is bringing Israel far closer to near-irreparable damage in diplomatic relations with our allies, to sanctions against Israel, and quite possibly to war, than any other FM could have.

As for such public statements (Gen. Yadlin’s), they do mean something. While Bibi might not jump each time an Intelligence Chief publicly recommends talking to Syria (as has occurred a few times over the past number of years), he does have to take into account public warnings given by these professionals.

Yadlin isn’t “another politician”. He’s the Head of IDF Intelligence, the National Intelligence Estimator, whose job it is to determine if we’re headed for war or not. If Bibi dismisses Yadlin, and is later blamed for starting war, no one in Israel will be able to defend him and say “Bibi didn’t know.” When Bibi has to consider how he might live the rest of his life, after PM’ship, I doubt he wants to be remembered as another Golda.

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November 3rd, 2010, 4:16 pm

 

38. Ghat Al Bird said:

As someone who is quite past the age of 39 and can claim some familiarity with the Arab Muslim world. As well as an appreciation of story telling Sherezad style.

Who one is told saved herself from being beheaded by reciting tales every evening for many a year. A cursory reading of SC about the actions, intentions, proposals as well as statements of Bibi, Avigdor, Yadlin, Feltman, Mitchell, Ross and friends I for one can attest that they too have for years and years been (ab)using the Sherezade method.

One finds it hard to accept that as many claim only the Arabs/Muslims are living in the 14th Century.

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November 3rd, 2010, 4:49 pm

 

39. Shai said:

Ghat,

If saving the citizens of the Middle East from being “beheaded” can be done by reciting tales every evening, I’m ready to do so for far longer than many-a-year…

And yet the longest comment here has been yours… ;-)

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November 3rd, 2010, 6:13 pm

 

40. SimoHurtta said:

Seems that Israel is widening its “scientific” methods in ruling the Palestinians. The mathematical formulas used to calculate the minimum needs of the people of Gaza were not enough.

Israel to publish Palestinian ‘incitement index’
Cabinet debates draft mechanism to measure anti-Israel sentiment in the Palestinian Authority.

The meter comprises four central components: clear incitement to violence; an atmosphere that encourages violence and terror; incitement to hatred, demonization and failure to create an environment for positive progress.

The ratings are based on analysis of institutionalized Palestinian media and Palestinians schoolbooks and remarks of senior Palestinian Authority officials.

The incitement meter will be published in the Israeli media and Israel plans to open a diplomatic campaign calling one the international community to put pressure on the Palestinian Authority to curb incitement or encouragement of violence.

Simply a hilarious propagandist project. Why not create an equal index to measure Israel’s failure to create an environment for positive progress. That hypothetical index’s value would be close to zero if we assume that 100 is “normal”, 0 “nothing” and 150 “more than normal”.

I must say that Israel’s recent regimes have had asthonishing “skills” in destroying the strong propagandist “we are the defenceless victim” foundation Israel managed to create during the past decades. Does anybody in Israeli cabinet really believe that such a “PA index” would be taken seriously. Surely the US right wing loves those “democracy” rankings and freedom indexes, but I suppose this Israeli new index would be to much to swallow even to them.

Maybe Netanyahu has an IQ of 180, like Yossi “estimates” :),
but his staff and coalition members have in average have an IQ of 85. Ayalon picking fight with UNESCO and collages developing PA indexes. Everyday several equal news. Nowadays it is difficult to differentiate of leading Israeli politicians characters who could/should be taken seriously. The only difference between Lieberman and the Israeli mainstream politicians is that Lieberman dares to suggest solutions to goals that are common to all main Knesset Jewish parties. It is clear that the Jewish nation “demand” can be delivered only through massive ethnic cleansing operations to which others also are prepared, but dare not mention the inevitable “future”. Nobody can claim that the decades long land and resource theft has happened without detailed plans and a silent approval of all main political parties. The settlements are not a operation of a some irrelevant small movements.

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November 3rd, 2010, 6:32 pm

 

41. Norman said:

I wonder sometimes if Bibi can sit and think , where are we going , what kind of Israel i and my people want , do we want peace , i am sure he will say yes , are we willing to pay the price for peace , giving the land back and the integrity to the Palestinians , no, can we have peace and keep the land , i hope to but these Arabs will not agree , why don’t they agree they have all the Arab land and world , why are they so stubborn ,

As long as Bibi and Israel do not recognize that to be part of the Mideast they have to be equal not better than everybody else and do to others what they want others to do to them , until then many might die for no reason , as i see no other way,

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November 3rd, 2010, 9:57 pm

 

42. Shai said:

Norman,

Maybe it is time the Arabs start voicing this option more loudly?

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November 4th, 2010, 1:15 am

 

43. Akbar Palace said:

Double Standard NewZ

While Syria Comment condemns Avigdor Lieberman:

Shai claims:

Few politicians on the Extreme-Right are more vocal and anti-Peace than Lieberman.

Pro-Syrian, Lebanese MP threatens violence:

http://www.naharnet.com/domino/tn/NewsDesk.nsf/getstory?openform&D3C204E6BE098DDBC22577D1002F245B

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assem_Qanso

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November 4th, 2010, 6:58 am

 

44. Shai said:

Akbar,

Lieberman is a danger to Israel, not only to its Arab citizens. It has been a long time since a Foreign Minister bluntly suggested population transfers.

But for the record, and to help clarify, do you support Lieberman?

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November 4th, 2010, 7:54 am

 

45. Ghat Al Bird said:

NORMAN said:

I wonder sometimes if Bibi can sit and think , where are we going , what kind of Israel i and my people want ………

NORMAN you are kidding right? While you and others may be wondering if Bibi “can sit and think” . The question is why should he? His friends are looking out for him and taking care of business as arttested to by excerpts from Haaretz Service.

U.S. midterms: AIPAC lauds re-election of pro-Israel stalwarts

Pro-Israel group hails success for supporters on both sides of the political divide, as well as election of three new Jewish members of Congress; polls shows 66 percent of U.S. Jews voted Democrat.

America’s largest pro-Israel lobby group on Wednesday hailed the results of midterm elections in the U.S. which saw staunch supporters re-elected to Congress on both sides of the party political divide.

“Many of the strongest friends and supporters of the U.S.-Israel relationship were reelected on Tuesday,” the group said in a statement.

Other pro-Israel successes cited by AIPAC included outgoing House Majority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), as well as Eric Cantor (R-VA) and Steny Hoyer (D-MD).

“It is abundantly clear that the 112th Congress will continue America’s long tradition of staunch support for a strong, safe and secure Israel and an abiding friendship between the United States and our most reliable ally in the Middle East,” AIPAC said.

Israel’s Washington embassy also expressed satisfaction with the results.
“Support for Israel at the Congress is strong and bipartisan,” an embassy spokesman told Haaretz.

AIPAC also welcomed the election of three new Jewish members of Congress: Senator-elect Richard Blumenthal (D-CT), Congressman-elect David Cicilline (D-RI), and Congresswoman-elect Nan Hayworth (R-NY).

Cicilline becomes the fourth openly gay member of Congress – and third Jewish gay member of Congress.

Alfred E. Newman’s famous line in MAD Magazine still rules, “What? Me worry!”

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November 4th, 2010, 10:22 am

 

46. Shai said:

The best part was: “Cicilline becomes the fourth openly gay member of Congress – and third Jewish gay member of Congress.”

Doing the math, it seems Jews are three times more likely to be gay congress members than non-Jews… :-) But if Cicilline is the 4th openly gay member of Congress, does that suggest there are more, not-openly gay members? Hmmm… Something to think about. Definitely more interesting than Lieberman.

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November 4th, 2010, 10:37 am

 

47. 5 dancing shlomos said:

weekends near. three sabbaths approach. days of rest. days of hate.
fri for muslims. sunday for christians. the in-between sabbath for the worlds 6000 jews(who counts atheists as anything but atheists). jewish sabbath propped up and protected for centuries by muslims and christians. left to their own devices jews(what does one call an atheist “jew”?) spend their time dancing around their pole of hate. without their kind neighbors jews would have disappeared centuries ago.

into the sabbaths days, let us remember with prayers, the long suffering palestinians locked into the worlds largest concentratio n-extermination prison and the worlds largest prison. both gifts from jewry.

let us remember the destroyed iraq. once a wonderful country now occupied by knuckle dragging goons in service to knuckle dragging jewry.

let us remember afganistan. in past 30 years, afgans have suffered more than the alleged suffering by jews over the past 9000 years.

let us also give thanks for arabs who love to hear themselves talk; who love to engage in love ins because they are understanding and tolerant.

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November 4th, 2010, 11:56 am

 

48. 5 dancing shlomos said:

tough israeli decisions: achieve peace through theft or by murder. which to use. hey! why not both. jewry can multitask.

IDF says it attacked Mohammed Nimnim, killed when his car exploded in Gaza City earlier Wednesday.

By Anshel Pfeffer, Avi Issacharoff and News Agencies

Witnesses report signs of missile strike

Israel has admitted it was behind the assassination a Palestinian man killed when his car exploded in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday.

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November 4th, 2010, 1:36 pm

 

49. SimoHurtta said:

Lieberman is a danger to Israel, not only to its Arab citizens. It has been a long time since a Foreign Minister bluntly suggested population transfers.

But for the record, and to help clarify, do you support Lieberman?

Shai how can the other politicians like Netanyahu, Livni or Barak provide the Jewish State they promise to their supporters without population transfers and limiting/bocking the Arab proportion’s growth. Lieberman expresses the only possible solution leading to that result, the other express the end result without telling the price and means which have to be used. Question who is worse?

Lieberman is a danger to the Jewish Israel’s propaganda basis and international imago. Not so much to Israeli Arabs and Palestinians. Lieberman only tells to them what is waiting them no matter who is the prime minister. Lieberman is open and “honest” fascist, the others are fascists still in closet.

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November 4th, 2010, 2:02 pm

 

50. Akbar Palace said:

Lieberman is a danger to Israel, not only to its Arab citizens.

Shai,

How so? Does Lieberman support mortal enemies of Israel like Hamas and Iran as Israeli MK Zuabi does?

http://www.jpost.com/Home/Article.aspx?id=137734

It has been a long time since a Foreign Minister bluntly suggested population transfers.

Shai,

What “population transfer” are you referring to? Are you referring to removing Israelis from their homes in the West Bank or redrawing Israel’s borders? Or was there something else you were thinking of?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieberman_Plan

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November 4th, 2010, 2:10 pm

 

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