“A Brief Introduction to the Shebaa Farms Problem” by Matthieu Cimino

Will It Be the Solution? A Brief Introduction to the Shebaa Farms Problem
by Matthieu Cimino for Syria Comment
May 2010

During his March 27 speach this spring, President Bashar al-Assad was asked why Syria did not clear up ambiguities about Lebanon’s ownership of the Shebaa farms’ region by providing an official Syrian map of the region, that Israel claims belongs to Syria and that Syria and Lebanon both claim belongs to Lebanon.  Syria’s President responded:

It’s simply because you can’t give a document that you don’t have. There are some measures that should be adopted to obtain such a document. I mean legal and judicial measures that specify the ownership of properties, which country was given these properties before and after Independence, Lebanon or Syria? When these measures are finalized, we start demarcating the border. But giving this document for political reasons doesn’t seem to be rational.

His announcement emphasizes the complexity of the Shebaa Farms question. Located atop a hill, the Shebaa Farms (or hamlets) are important to both water resources and politics in the region. On May 21st, 2000, after Israel withdrew from Lebanon, ending its occupation that lasted over 20 years, Hezbollah and Syria claimed that the Jewish State still occupied a piece of land northeast of Mt. Hermon in the Golan Heights. That territory, which few had heard about previously, is made up of 14 farms. It is located at the three corners where Lebanon, Syria and Israel share a border.

The problem lies in a geographical error. During the French mandate (1920 – 1946), the Lebanese, French, and Syrian authorities did not pay attention to the frontier between Lebanon and Syria. The former was still considering Lebanon as one of its provinces and seemed not to be interested in drawing the border between the two countries.

Despite the Shebaa area being small in size (approx. 16 sq.m), the problem is difficult. The village of Shebaa is located in Lebanon, northeast of “Djebel ech-Cheikh” (Mount Hermon) while its farms are located south of the mountian. From the Mandate in 1920 to the Six-Day War of 1967, the farms were considered Syrian territories de jure, i.e. on the maps. During that period – and before – the Lebanese farmers used to cross the mountain area to reach their fields, which were cultivated with apple orchards.

Thus, Lebanon and Syria were artificially separated in the Shebaa region by the Wadi el-‘Assal, a stream. The Lebanese farmers considered that the river to be the border between the two countries.
French authorities did not take into account the Lebanese farmers who crossed the borders to their who had to reach their farms.

The Shebaa Farms case was at first nothing but a cadastral issue and border dispute. As a French diplomat noted in 1935, “this issue is linked to the delimitation of the border between Lebanon and Syria. All legal disputes will be resolved when we will be able to determine if a particular farm is located in Syria or in Lebanon. Everything else is irrelevant”.

In 1950, after the 1948 War, Syria installed an advanced military observation post and carried out topographical surveys in the farms. Thus, from 1920 to 1967, the Shebaa Farms were deemed to be Syrian land on military maps despite the fact that almost all the cultivator of the region were Lebanese and few Syrians lived there. In 1967, Israel invaded the Golan Heights and took the Shebaa Farms. The Israelis expelled the Lebanese farmers that were living there.

It seems that Israel did not realize it had invaded a de facto Lebanese territory.

In 1978, the Israeli Defense Forces transformed the farms into a buffer zone and adorned them with Hebrew road signs. Israel distributed national ID’s that were refused by the majority of the farmers. When Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000 after 18 years of occupation, the Shebaa Farms became central to Hezbollah’s continuing justification for war against Israel. In 2006, during the “33-days War”, the Shebaa Farms issue took central stage.

For Hezbollah, it is absolutely essential to have a justification to maintain its arms which are a guarantee to its survival. In his March, 27th speech, Bashar al-Assad maintained ambiguity about the Shebaa Farms. For Syria, the Shebaa Farms are Lebanese but the Syrians refuse to provide official documents proving it. In fact, Syria alleges that it possesses documents showing that the farms are Lebanese territory but that those documents still have to be clarified with precise topographical and cadastral studies. Unfortunately, neither Lebanon nor Syria have access to the area.

The Syrian position is clear: Israel must withdraw from all occupied territories, especially the Golan Heights, which includes the Shebaa Farms area. Then Syria and Lebanon will be able to resolve their border issues. However, if Syria and Lebanon have not demarcated their borders since 1920, it is doubtful they will do so in 2010.

In this article, I argue that the Shebaa Farms present an opportunity for normalization between Israel, Lebanon and Syria. In 2010, a comprehensive and ecological solution can be found to what has become the flash point between Hezbollah, Syria, and Israel – one that may again lead to war.

Matthieu Cimino, PhD Candidate – SciencesPo. Paris
matthieu.cimino@sciences-po.org

Comments (114)


Majhool said:

Didn’t the president say that Sheb’a farms are no bigger than a football field or something to that effect??

I can’t seem to remember the exact words

May 8th, 2010, 5:52 pm

 

Majhool said:

I found it!

/سورية/ و/لبنان/ حول /مزارع شبعا/. من يسأل حول /مزارع شبعا/ نقول له انها أصغر مساحة من هذا المجمع الذي نتواجد فيه الان

” Sheb’a Farms is smaller that the convention enter that we are at”

May 8th, 2010, 5:59 pm

 
 

hassan said:

AP:

Thank you for referring us to that UN map of the region. It makes clear that Shebaa Farms is Syrian territory.

It should be apparent to those who do not know that Hezbollah’s claim, regarding Lebanese sovereignty of Shebaa, is false that it in no way justifies Hezbollah’s possession of arms. Its possession of arms and its terrorist infrastructure risks civil war needlessly. Moreover, its arms grant it the ability to determine when to initiate or risk conflict with Israel. It will do this when it is in the interest of Hezbollah and not necessarily the interests of all Lebanese. Hezbollah’s decision to turn its arms on fellow Lebanese in May 2008 signals that it places its interests before wider Lebanese concerns. It is cynical that Hezbollah is exploiting a grievance rooted in claims regarding Lebanese sovereignty to subvert the sovereignty of the Lebanese state.

May 9th, 2010, 3:29 am

 

Fares said:

So what game is Syria trying to play with the Lebanese ? Also, what is in it for Israel to maintain control over Golan? I remember an Israeli diplomat saying once that Golan had a strategic importance during the 67 since its on a hilltop and all, but it is merely a headache to all now… Just trying to fit it into the regional context of things..

May 9th, 2010, 7:14 am

 

majedkhaldoun said:

Hassan said
Its possession of arms and its terrorist infrastructure risks civil war needlessly.
Hassan is wrong,HA recognise their mistake in 2008,and they stopped,but HA is resistant movement,and not terrorists,your hatred toward Shiite is blinding you,HA has full right to arm themself with Scud missles and and all kind of weapons they see fit,remember,and you seems to forget, that the lebanese army is weak and not allowed to get scud missles and unable to defends lebanon, and the lebanese army can not be trusted with several members uncovered to be spies to the evil enemy .
HA has done better than many Arabic armies,
your opinion is not what most people in the Arab world believe in.

May 9th, 2010, 4:36 pm

 

Akbar Palace said:

Your Resistance is My Voltage

Hassan,

You’re welcome.

So what game is Syria trying to play with the Lebanese??

Fares,

As Professor Josh has always admitted, the Syrians want HA to fight the Israelis for Syria. The Lebanese have no say in the matter. IMHO, I have always believed the Syrians want the Golan back for free. Which means that getting the Golan is secondary. It is more important to remain at war with the Zionists than to get the Golan back.

Syria Comment has always liked to conduct polls (see above right-hand corner of this web page) with the participants here. Therefore, we should poll the participants by asking them if they favor a return of the Golan for a FULL peace treaty with Israel. This would include cutting ties to Iran, HA, and all terror/resistance movements.

May 9th, 2010, 4:53 pm

 

norman said:

AP, Said,
(( Fares,

As Professor Josh has always admitted, the Syrians want HA to fight the Israelis for Syria. The Lebanese have no say in the matter. IMHO, I have always believed the Syrians want the Golan back for free. Which means that getting the Golan is secondary. It is more important to remain at war with the Zionists than to get the Golan back.

Syria Comment has always liked to conduct polls (see above right-hand corner of this web page) with the participants here. Therefore, we should poll the participants by asking them if they favor a return of the Golan for a FULL peace treaty with Israel. This would include cutting ties to Iran, HA, and all terror/resistance movements.

AP ,

Why doesn’t Israel Calls Syria’s bluff and commit to returning the Golan Heights in return for Syria not assisting or providing a staging ground for entities that seek the destruction of Israel ,
That what i would do , but apparently you Think that the Israeli leaders are stupid to put Syria’s intention to the test ,

That is if Israel really wants peace , i doubt that personally ,

May 9th, 2010, 5:39 pm

 

majedkhaldoun said:

The alliance between Syria Iran and HA will never split,and will be joined by other countries

May 9th, 2010, 6:29 pm

 

almasri said:

President Assad in in Turkey today to meet with Erdogan and Qatar Emir.
Assad made it clear war is a possibility due to Israel’s settlment policies.

I wouldn’t call the commenter of #4 an Arab. The company with which he’s associating himself speaks for itself.

May 9th, 2010, 7:07 pm

 

Ghat Albird said:

President Medvedev of Russia will arrive in Damascus on crucial visit this coming Monday.

http://gulfnews.com/news/region/syria/medvedev-arrives-in-syria-on-monday-for-crucial-visit-1.624241

May 9th, 2010, 7:19 pm

 

Akbar Palace said:

Why doesn’t Israel Calls Syria’s bluff and commit to returning the Golan Heights in return for Syria not assisting or providing a staging ground for entities that seek the destruction of Israel ,
That what i would do , but apparently you Think that the Israeli leaders are stupid to put Syria’s intention to the test ,

That is if Israel really wants peace , i doubt that personally

Norman,

I think Israel has. I don’t recall ANY instance where the Syrians were willing to cut their ties to Iran.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=124857&sectionid=351020101

May 9th, 2010, 7:23 pm

 

norman said:

AP,

Let us make a deal that Syria will not ask Israel to break it’s relation with the US and Israel will not ask Syria to break it’s relation with Iran , Israel will not interfere , permit any activity against Syria and Syria will not interfere , permit any activity against Israel ,

Expect of others what you are willing to give , That is the rule,

May 9th, 2010, 8:18 pm

 

Akbar Palace said:

Norman,

Please don’t compare Israel’s relationship with the US with Syria’s relationship with Iran.

But I’m willing to be neutral to prove a point.

Should Syria give up its relationship with Iran for a return of the Golan and a peace treaty with Israel?

I think it would be interesting to vote on this here on the forum. Of course we all know in real life, Syrians will never have the opportunity to voice their own opinion or vote on this issue. Only Bashar Assad knows what’s good for Syria.

May 9th, 2010, 11:34 pm

 

Fares said:

Thanks for your answer…

But why does Syria want to maintain a two front war with Israel? Why does Israel still maintain control of Golan? Do they want war with Syria as well?

May 10th, 2010, 12:24 am

 

norman said:

AP
In return for a peace treaty and the return of the Golan , Syria will not be a staging ground for attacks on Israel physically or verbally and as Syria does not have the right to tell Israel who to be friend with we expect Israel not to tell Syria whom to befriend ,

I still , looking at your answers , think that Israel wants to have more excuses not to reach peace ,

May 10th, 2010, 12:34 am

 

Shai said:

Akbar, Norman,

The issue of Iran/Hezbollah is very important, and will no doubt be brought up in negotiations between the parties. I cannot see how Syria would ever “dump” its diplomatic relations with any country, regardless of what Israel, the U.S., or even the International Community would prefer. Israel has diplomatic relations with Cuba, despite the fact that it is illegal for Akbar to purchase Cuban cigars, let alone to visit Cuba. For the United States, Cuba represents an “enemy state”. And yet the U.S. hasn’t demanded of Israel (or any other ally) to sever its ties with Cuba.

What’s important isn’t the diplomatic relations, it’s the defense-relationship, and specifically Syria’s role between Iran and Hezbollah. If ties with both of these parties becomes purely diplomatic, then Israel cannot hope for more. Personally, I would argue that Israel has everything to GAIN by having Syria as its ally, and Syria as Iran’s ally at the same time! It means, that Iran and Israel have a friend in common, and that can sometimes be crucial.

It would be unwise of Israel and the U.S. to pressure Syria to become another-Egypt. While Israel may have enjoyed a so-called “flipped Egypt” (that can be argued today, based on our cold Peace), there is no doubt that Egypt also suffered greatly as a result. Its own leadership suffered, and has to continue to rule with a tough hand, suppressing all those who deem it a traitor. We do not wish the same upon Syria. It will not serve Israel’s best interests, even if it was theoretically possible. And I seriously doubt it is.

May 10th, 2010, 8:44 am

 

Akbar Palace said:

Door #1: Iran/Resistance vs. Door #2: Golan & Western Support

Israel has diplomatic relations with Cuba, despite the fact that it is illegal for Akbar to purchase Cuban cigars, let alone to visit Cuba.

Shai,

At one time that was true. Not now.

http://www.jcca.org/adult_cuba_march_2010.htm

It would be unwise of Israel and the U.S. to pressure Syria to become another-Egypt.

Some say that is would be “unwise of Israel” to make peace with a President-for-Life, autocratic leader like Bashar Assad.

If a peace treaty is to be signed, then Iran will have to be further isolated from Syria. The fact that this is so difficult for the Syrians to ponder, despite the hypothetical return of the Golan and the support (and money) of the West, speaks VOLUMES.

In simple terms, relations with Iran are more important to Syria than the total of the return of the Golan, Western support, and an influx of billions of dollars.

May 10th, 2010, 11:14 am

 

norman said:

Printable view

Mon, May 10, 2010, 12:17 GMT
Syrian-Qatari Holding Signs Definitive Agreement to Develop Syria’s First World-Class Medical Center in Damascus

10 May 2010
The project is the first of its kind in Syria and based on international standards

Under the supervision of some of the best Syrian doctors practicing in the USA

A significant rallying point for Syrian doctors living abroad

Damascus: The Chairman of Syrian-Qatari Holding (SQH), Mr. Nasser Hassan Al-Ansari, signed the definitive Shareholder Agreement for the co-development of Syria’s first world-class Medical City with a group of highly skilled US-based Syrian physicians acting within the framework of the Syrian-American Medical Center (SAMC), and represented by Dr. Ammar Hemaidan (General Manager of SAMC), and Dr. Akram Kholoki (Vice Chairman of the Board of Directors of SAMC). The Medical City integrates a 200-bed hospital and several specialty medical centers as well as medical offices. This agreement follows up on a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) signed by SQH and SAMC in May 2009, which had defined the framework to carry out the necessary feasibility studies of the project and to draw the final outlines of the future medical center.

Location, project components, medical specialties

The Medical City will be located in Damascus, in the West Mazzeh area. The site is within close proximity to the Mazzeh highway, and within easy reach of Damascus center and rural Damascus. It will be built on a land area of 10,000 sq.m. The plans of the medical complex call for a total built-up area of 64,000 sq.m, of which 26,000 sq.m. will be allocated to the 200-bed general hospital facility. The remaining of the built-up area will host a parking garage and a large office component to house different specialty clinics and other medical related trades and businesses.

The Hospital component itself will include several centers of excellence including heart, pulmonary disease, and gastroenterology centers, a gynecology / obstetrics / pediatrics unit, as well as oncology, musculoskeletal / orthopedics and Neuropsychiatric centers, as well as general surgery, medicine and ER services supported by a state-of-the-art radiology center.

Equipment and design

The medical center will benefit from state-of-the-art equipment and will be implementing the latest technological advancements in patient care. Internationally experienced biomedical engineers, designers and practitioners will be involved in the facilities design and the selection of the medical equipment.

“The Heart Center, for instance, will provide the highest level of skills and expertise to treat a wide variety of cardiovascular diseases, utilizing the most advanced technologies available” says Dr. Kholoki, interventional cardiologist.

“The complex will be staffed by well trained medical practitioners, support staff and nurses and will provide outstanding standard of medical treatment and care. That will bring significant benefit to the Syrian population, and will encourage patients from across the Middle East to come to Syria for treatment”, said Mr. Hassan Mukayed, CEO of SQH. “Syrian doctors practicing in the USA and Europe are known to be among the best physicians in the world,” he continued.

“It will both retain the patients who today travel out of the country for special surgical operations and procedures and encourage Syrian experts who live abroad to come back to Syria and work in a center that aims to become Syrians’ and the region’s first choice for treatment”, says Dr. Ammar Hemaidan. “The hospital will be the first Syrian hospital seeking JCI accreditation”, he added.

SQH will be developing and managing the project through its fully owned subsidiary, Syrian-Qatari Healthcare. The total project cost is estimated to be around US$ 112 million, and the development of the entire complex is estimated to require 3.5 years.

-Ends-

About Syrian-Qatari Holding (SQH)
Founded in 2008, SQH is Syria’s largest holding company with declared capital of USD 5 billion. It was established through an agreement between the Syrian and Qatari governments.

SQH is committed to introducing leading and pioneering investment opportunities to the Syrian market across different industries. The company sets sights on becoming the leading investment firm and partner of choice in Syria by investing in several other sectors such as Power, Agriculture, Dairy & Juice, Phosphate Fertilizers and Sewage Treatment Plants.

SQH is equally owned by the Syrian and Qatari governments. Qatar’s shares are held by Qatar Holding. Fully supported by both governments, SQH is a joint sector company governed by a Board of Directors of six members with equal representation by the two nations. The company is based in the Syrian Arab Republic with headquarters in Damascus.

For more information please call: +963 11 335 3100
Email: Info@sqholding.com
Website: http://www.sqholding.com

© Press Release 2010 from Promoseven

Article originally published by Press Release 10-May-10

Copyright © 2010 ABQ Zawya Ltd. All rights reserved. Please read our User Agreement

May 10th, 2010, 12:18 pm

 

almasri said:

Egypt committed treason by signing a so-called peace deal with an illegal enclave. Hosni is in big trouble and any new government in Egypt has a lot to do to calm Egyptian anger. However, unlike Syria, Egypt can live without a liberated Palestine.
Syria cannot live while its natural geography is ripped up into disparate entities. Syria must liberate Palestine, reclaim all the territories that were taken away from her, ensure all Palestinian refugees return to their homes and put an end to the rape of its land by the Zionist thugs.
Anyone who thinks a Syrian regime (present or future) can sign any peace deal with an occupying zionist entity knows nothing about history and Syria itself.
We are very happy that Islamic Iran is committed to the destruction of Zionism and Israel When the so-called Egyptian treaty is abrogated, Egypt will join forces to help accomplish Iran’s noble goal.
As I have been saying all along, there is no room for a zionist enclave in the Middle East.

May 10th, 2010, 4:46 pm

 

Battal Agha said:

Frankly speaking, all this discussion about Shebaa Farm being or not being Lebanese is irrelevant. Facts are:
a) Syria does not want any settlement to happen between Lebanon and Israel, so it won’t help in documenting the “nationality” of this area.
b) Hezbollah, despite all the arguments, IS NOT working in the interest of Lebanon. He has an “IRANIAN/SYRIAM” Agenda that does not take in consideration the Lebanese interests. All this talk about defending the Resistance movement (lately by Sleiman and Berri) will certainly not be in the interest of Lebanon if and when Hezbollah will provoke Israeli retaliation, as it is now acknowledge that Lebanon IS covering Heabollah;s activities.
c) People seem to forget that before the (in(famous 1969 Cairo Agreement, which consecrated the abdocation of Lebanese sovereingty over the South to the PLO, Israel had never attacked Lebanon. Also today, if unprovoked, Israel will not attack. So saying that Hezbollah has to keep its weapons because of Israeli threats is just nonsense.

May 10th, 2010, 5:19 pm

 

Fares said:

AlMasri.

You are stuck fighting WWI my friend. Israel is here to stay. I understand your frustration and anger, but make no mistake- Israel is not illegal. War was fought differently in the past. The main prize of war was land- and the Brits won the war. So really as per rules of the game back in the day, Britain could have done and did in fact do whatever it wanted!

I think if the Israelis accept the fact that the Arabs will never be comfortable with it unless it accepts peace, then they would create peace! because it is in EVEYRONE’s mutual interest to work together in a region and not against each other. The Middle East has always been an exception because there is a constant shift in the balance of power but you know what its time we hop on that bandwagon of development, both psychologically and economically.

I would love to visit Israel one day and enjoy Tel Aviv, if only they are willing to accept the fact that the region is not their own, it is for everyone to share.

May 10th, 2010, 5:29 pm

 

Shai said:

Akbar,

“Some say that is would be “unwise of Israel” to make peace with a President-for-Life, autocratic leader like Bashar Assad.”

I don’t know of any Israeli official that ever came up with that ridiculous claim. By that logic, not only was Israel wrong in making peace with Sadat (and continuing to maintain peaceful relations with President-for-Life Mubarak), but the United States should indeed sever its relationship with dozens of nations across this little green planet. Can you remind us of a single Israeli Prime Minister that has ever suggested this?

“If a peace treaty is to be signed, then Iran will have to be further isolated from Syria.”

I suppose when you say “further isolated”, you mean “isolated”. Because Iran is currently anything but “isolated” from Syria. But what I fail to understand, is why you think you or anyone else has a right to demand this of Syria. Does the United States impose this demand on China, with regards to North Korea? Does it make this demand of ANY of her allies, with regards to Iran?

Iran isn’t “threatening Iraq”, it is actively fighting for control there. It is undoubtedly fighting American interests in Iraq, as we speak. And yet, America hasn’t demanded of her new ally, Iraq, to sever its ties with Iran.

So here’s the scenario: New ambassador to Damascus shows up at the Palace, and says to President Bashar: “Mr. President, the United States (and Israel) demand that your nation isolate itself from Iran…” Bashar Assad responds by saying: “No problem Mr. Ambassador. But before we do, a quick question, has the United States asked all her European allies to do the same? Has it asked Germany, Britain, France, or Italy, to do the same?”

May 10th, 2010, 6:38 pm

 

jgupta said:

The debate in this thread, such as it is, is somewhat comical and sillier than usual on this website.

I have been enjoying this site for the last month or so, but this time the posts made me chuckle.

May 10th, 2010, 8:47 pm

 

EHSANI2 said:

AKBAR,

Has Israel put such an offer on the table? Has Israel given any indication that she is willing to give back the Golan?

What if Bashar severed his relationship with Iran and your democracy did not deliver the Golan?

No rational person would make such a trade. You cannot give up a 30-year relationship for the “hope” of getting something. Indeed, if it were me, I would never contemplate such a trade.

This idea that Syria should throw Iran under the bus to get the Golan is shallow, lacks substance and indicates ignorance of the dynamics of the region.

May 10th, 2010, 9:30 pm

 

Akbar Palace said:

The Truth Emerges

EHSANI2 said:

Has Israel put such an offer on the table? Has Israel given any indication that she is willing to give back the Golan?

EHSANI2,

To my knowledge, the two sides were fairly close to a resolution in terms of land. Perhaps 99%. I am not clear on the details of any one side, and I’m definately not clear on what the Syrians have offered, tangibly, in terms of “peace”.

What if Bashar severed his relationship with Iran and your democracy did not deliver the Golan?

What if the opposite? What if Israel returns land and the Syrians continue incitement and the support of terrorists just like the Oslo Accord?

No rational person would make such a trade. You cannot give up a 30-year relationship for the “hope” of getting something. Indeed, if it were me, I would never contemplate such a trade.

Thanks for your opionion. This will help me prove that the Israeli Leftists are “out to lunch”. This is why I would be interested if SC made this a POLL.

This idea that Syria should throw Iran under the bus to get the Golan is shallow, lacks substance and indicates ignorance of the dynamics of the region.

OK, at least now I know what the priorities are, and it certainly isn’t the Golan, just like it isn’t really the “occupation”. It’s all about continuing the “resistance”.

PS – Fares, I totally agree with your post. We need more moderates such as yourself.

May 10th, 2010, 10:48 pm

 

Nour said:

Fares,

How was war fought differently in the past? So in the past countries were allowed to freely conquer another people’s land and do with it as they please, but this is no longer the case now?

In any case, legal or illegal from a juridical and legal perspective, the establishment of a pure Jewish state on land belonging to others is not something that will ever be acceptable by the indigenous inhabitants of the land. However, even legally speaking, “Israel” is indeed illegal, because it was created by violating one of the basic rights afforded to all peoples, namely self-determination and the right to control their own destiny. “Israel” was imposed on the people of this land and forced down their throats.

Moreover, the very creation of the Jewish state was by way of terror and ethnic cleansing in order to set up the proper environment for the establishment of an ethnically pure state. Such acts are contrary to all international human rights agreements and accepted international law.

May 11th, 2010, 12:00 am

 

Akbar Palace said:

Lessons on Int’l Law and the “Jewish State”

Moreover, the very creation of the Jewish state was by way of terror and ethnic cleansing in order to set up the proper environment for the establishment of an ethnically pure state.

Nour,

Thanks for admitting that is isn’t the Golan or Gaza or the West Bank or Jerusalem. The problem is a Jewish State with an “ethnically pure”, 25% non-Jewish citizenry.

Such acts are contrary to all international human rights agreements and accepted international law.

Nour,

Under “international law”, Israel is sovereign, independent member of the UN just like Syria, with the right of self-defense.

May 11th, 2010, 12:26 am

 

MONTAGNARD said:

AP
As long as Israel is a threat to the security of Syria, Syria will seek all measures available to deal with that threat.
Iran is an important venue for Syria to deal with the serious threat to its security from Israel.
I suggest that Israel change its behavior towards Syria and give Syria the assurance that it is not a threat to its security, then Syria can look at its relationship with Iran and reevaluate her needs from that relationship.

May 11th, 2010, 4:18 am

 

Fares said:

Nour,

You clearly lack a realistic grasp of the way things work in this world.

Don’t forget, Palestine was never a state! Look, my father is from Nabatiyeh and my mother is from Jerusalem. I know well the numerous human rights violations and war crimes committed by some of those thugs. I need no lecture on that.

What you need though, is to wake up and realize that the front you and millions of others are fighting to free Palestine is INEFFECTIVE!! Haven’t you stopped and looked at the facts for once? You know what, just look at a map! Palestine is gonna be wiped off pretty soon my dear, your strategies are ineffective. Strike the Israelis where they least accept it. Accept what they offer because they know that is the last thing we would do.

God is not gonna save you or anyone else. So what are you waiting for. You claim there is no justice in this world and then seek to legitimize the debate by giving me a legal perspective of matters. If there was justice, it would have been served. There is not justice, so find another way to at least secure what you have today.

A good solution now is better than the perfect solution five minutes too late. not there is a current solution, and if there was it certainly isn’t good. but u get the point…

The “Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity” as Rahm Emanuel puts it.

May 11th, 2010, 7:46 am

 

Akbar Palace said:

As long as Israel is a threat to the security of Syria, Syria will seek all measures available to deal with that threat.

MONTAGNARD,

Israel does not support terrorist organizations that fire short and medium range missiles into Syrian population centers.

But if you perceive a threat to Syria and prefer your close relationship to Iran over the Golan and gobs of economic aid from the West, then you have the right man leading your country (even though you have no real say/vote).

Fares,

If apologies could fix the world, I would give you mine and say I am sorry that Palestine was not an independent country before the Jews started immigrating there. But they did. And we all know the history. No one planned it. Now we have a Jewish state and no one knows if it will grow stronger or go away. But I think you have the right attitude. Jews aren’t going to walk away from something we have prayed for for 2000 years, and the big secret is that Jews and Arabs can live together in peace.

Thanks.

May 11th, 2010, 10:56 am

 

Shai said:

Akbar,

I noticed you conveniently didn’t respond to my comment above (#23). Maybe you missed it… 😉

Please remind us what Israeli Prime Minister has ever suggested Israel should not make peace with a president-for-life? Please elaborate on whether Israel should sever its relationship with Egypt’s president-for-life, Hosni Mubarak.

And please explain why no American President has ever demanded of any ally to sever its relations with Iran? Given that Iran is a clear threat to U.S. interests in the region, and may be responsible for the deaths of U.S. soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.

May 11th, 2010, 11:32 am

 

Akbar Palace said:

Shai,

I never said that an Israeli official “suggested Israel should not make peace with a president-for-life”. I simply said “some” suggest this. Israeli governments have always believed that supporting a “strong man” is preferable, since there is no indication democracy will ever take root in many Arab countries.

The US has no diplomatic relations with Iran. The US is also trying to enforce stiff sanctions AGAINST Iran. So even though I don’t think the US “demands” a country to sever its relations with Iran, if a country does sever its ties to Iran, I think the US government would welcome that.

Make sense?

May 11th, 2010, 12:17 pm

 

Shai said:

Akbar,

So if the U.S. doesn’t demand of, say, Britain, or France, or Germany, or Russia, or China, to sever their relations with Iran, why should it ask Syria to do so?

And please help me understand where those Israeli Defense and Intelligence leaders are wrong, when they suggest Israel must “immediately negotiate with Syria”? Isn’t it so irresponsible of them, to exercise such paranoia and urgency towards a Syria that who-knows, may not “deliver” after a peace agreement?

What is it they don’t seem to understand? Help me with this point.

May 11th, 2010, 12:33 pm

 

why-discuss said:

AP, Shai

From Israel, we have learned that there are 100
“official” voices singing different songs and making media declaration as if they were the leaders of the country. These songs are often contradicting each other. So I think the whole international community is starting to take with a pinch of salt what Peres says, Barak says, the mayor of Jerusalem says etc..
This confusion is a bonus for the media that can feed these statements on headlines, but I am not sure in the long term, it would maintain the credibility of Israel.
Maybe that is what you call democracy?

May 11th, 2010, 1:07 pm

 

Shai said:

“Israel seeks peace and has no intention to attack its neighbors, despite false rumors, the prime minister says.”

Netanyahu: Iran trying to provoke war between Israel and Syria

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/netanyahu-iran-trying-to-provoke-war-between-israel-and-syria-1.289704

Why-Discuss,

I agree with you – different messages are constantly “sung” by different officials in Israel, from the President to the Foreign Minister, to his Deputy-Dawg. But in the end, it is the Prime Minister of Israel that decides, not any of the others.

The above statement, for instance, can be seen as further anti-Iran rhetoric, or as a calming-message to Syria, that Israel has no intentions to start war against her, or any of her neighbors (message to Hezbollah). If Israel does go to war, then Netanyahu will prove untrustworthy. I don’t think that’s what he’s after. I think he’s sincere.

It also means, that Syria should be aware of the fact that Israel interprets the situation as it does, and that perhaps Iran is indeed trying to push us all into war. I’m not saying this is the case, but it certainly could be. It would not be the first time Syria is pressured to go to war by a 3rd party.

May 11th, 2010, 1:14 pm

 

Akbar Palace said:

Israeli Leftists Think Differently

So if the U.S. doesn’t demand of, say, Britain, or France, or Germany, or Russia, or China, to sever their relations with Iran, why should it ask Syria to do so?

Shai,

The Obama administration hasn’t demanded anything from anybody. And the Bush Administration wanted Israel to attack Syria during the last Lebanese war. But this wasn’t a “demand”.

It is the Israelis, as I understand, that are demanding Syria break relations from Iran, not the US. And I don’t think the US finds that to be an unreasonable demand considering Irans support of terrorism.

WD –

Agreed. There are too many different opinions within the Israeli government. I would go by what the PM says and with whatever actions the government enforces.

May 11th, 2010, 1:53 pm

 

Ghat Albird said:

Lebanon, Syria and Iran the only democracy in the ME has decided your fate.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6492H420100510

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6492H420100510

May 11th, 2010, 2:00 pm

 

jgupta said:

Nour (and any other Arab with roots in current-Israel):

Would you accept a peace agreement between the Palestinians and Israel resulting in a two (or three) state solution that didn’t have any meaningful re-settlement of Arab refugees in to Israel? Put aside some face-saving token that had no practical effect. I mean an agreement that would mean that the populations in the refugee camps did not have any special right to become full citizens or automatic residents of Israel – they would have the right to return to the West Bank/Gaza only. (As an aside, this would, I think, be similar to the rights given to the Jews living in the West Bank/Gaza and Jerusalem during partition and after expulsion from Jordan in 1948).

I am asking this as sort of a poll, since it seems to be the main issue preventing a peace deal between them right now (I know there are others, mainly Jerusalem, but presumably those are solvable).

Second question is: Would someone please explain the connection between the Palestinian Authority and the Arab League. It seemed that Abbas needed/permission from the Arab League to enter into proximity talks. Is that a legal requirement, or him just being prudent. Ultimately, who has the authority to enter into an agreement. Will the Arab world live with a deal cut by Abbas, or will it continue to be at war with Israel no matter what happens (I am excluding Syria, since it has its own issue of the Golan and presumably will not make peace with Israel just because the Palestinians do – I also assume that Syria will do everything it can to prevent peace between Israel and the Palestinians for fear of being left as the only ones still at war).

Any thoughts?

Also, since I would like almasri’s comments as well, I have rewritten my post for him:

Nour (and any other Arab whose heart has been torn by the rape of occupied Palestine by the Zionist thugs):

Would you accept a peace agreement between the long-suffering and unjustly oppressed noble Palestinians and the criminal thugs that resulted in the rending of historic Palestine into a just state (or two) and an unjust thorn in the side of our Arab nation, if it didn’t include the just and necessary requirement that the Zionist’s ethnic cleansing and attempted genocide be undone so our Arab brethren could be freed from their concentration camps and return to their eternal and historic home? Put aside some humiliating token solution that would merely perpetuate the injustice. This question refers to an agreement that would mean that noble Palestinians and rightful heirs to the land that are currently kept penned in poverty and abuse by the Zionazi thugs would not have their humanitarian and guaranteed right to become full citizens in their own lands or return to their ancient homes where the Jewish criminals continue to crush the necks of our heritage – they would have the meaningless right to return only to the humiliating sliver of land left to them by the Jews in the West Bank and Gaza. (As an aside, this would, I think, be nothing like the generous rights given to the Jews living in the West Bank/Gaza and Jerusalem during the perfidious partition that created Jordan and allowed the Zionist entity to occupy our land after the conspiracy of 1948, who deserved not even that as interlopers and foreigners foisted upon the Arab homeland by Europeans to assuage their own guilt since the Jews are simply Europeans with no reason to be here other than criminal intent).

May 11th, 2010, 3:05 pm

 

Husam said:

Fares Said:

The “Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity” as Rahm Emanuel puts it.

Are you kidding me? Of all people you can quote, you chose Rahm Emanuel who is a thug beyond imagination, who’s father was an Irgun Terrorist fighter, and now elected to a po$ition in order to futher steal trillions of dollars from Americans, which I am sure most of it will benefit Israel and its Zionist friends.

No wonder you want to convince everyone here in SC to accept that we live in a world without justice and we should learn to “live with it.” You are advocating that we should all be sheep and follow the “order”. You said “God is not going to save you or anyone else….” So, the Devil will. Thank you Fares for educating us on this, but really take your trash elsewhere.

May 11th, 2010, 3:10 pm

 

jgupta said:

Husam and Fares:
The quote you were talking about was from Abba Eben, according to wikiquote:http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Abba_Eban

It was originally “The Arabs never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.”

If Emmanuel substituted “Palestinians” for “Arabs”, he would not have been the first to make that mistake, as Wikiquote says that is a common error.
Does anyone have a link to Emmanuel’s quote? I wonder if he gave proper attribution.

May 11th, 2010, 3:22 pm

 

majedkhaldoun said:

AP said
Israel does not support terrorist organizations

Israel is a terrorist state

May 11th, 2010, 3:37 pm

 

almasri said:

Zionists have no room in Palestine or anywhere else in the Middle East.
Their fate will be destruction, and their illegal enclave will be dismantled.
All the refugeess will go back to their homes.

May 11th, 2010, 4:56 pm

 

Fares said:

Husam:

First of all, there is no trash in what I say at all.

Second, there are basic debate procedures in this world. What you just did in response to my Emanuel quotation is what is known as a fallacy. Why? because you fail to address the issue, you try and attack me not by questioning what I said, but by bringing in Rahm Emanuel and his dad into the story, which is completely irrelevant so instead of addressing the issue of Palestine, you talk about something irrelevant. But I will still respond to you by saying this:

There is a saying in Arabic that goes “Khod, O ba3dein talib”. Mean you take what you can, and THEN you ask for more. Why this is relevant? Because ironically, Israel was in the same position in 48 that the Palestinians are now, in the sense that Ben Gurion was actually unsatisfied with 242. He wanted MORE land. Just like we the Palestinians wanted all our lives. BUT, we failed to seize every opportunity to take what we can. We want it all now, or we want nothing at all, and that is precisely what we are getting. Look at the trend my friend. Oh, what we would do to get the 67 borders now, let alone the 48 ones!! I have a very good feeling that in 30 years time, when we have absolutely nothing, we are going to long for the days Netanyahu offered us a joke of a state. On the other hand, Israel was not satisfied with what it got, but it took it, and look at where it is today. The story of the success of Israel cannot be denied by anyone. It has become one of the most advanced states in under 70 years. I am not praising it. I am just saying we need to reconsider our ineffective, unintelligent and outdated strategies.

I am not making any humanitarian arguments what so ever. There is no room for that anymore, we tried our best with that battle but we lost. So lets move on and see what else we can do to secure the safety of the millions of Palestinians being massacred every day. Its about them, not you or I Husam.

Regarding you sheep comment. I don’t know what you are implying by my saying we need to start looking at different options. Whenever someone speaks the truth or defies the status quo on the arab street, then he is a traitor and a sheep. Well, that is being stubborn and that has clearly gotten Palestine nowhere. again, just look at the map. there is always more than one way to look at things. you see the inhumanity, and I do too. But when I look at it again and again, I see lack of resolution and inability to think ahead on the part of the Arabs. Same map, same story, different perspectives.

Regarding you God comment. you dont get the point. Neither god nor the devil no anyone else in this world will give you what you want. you work for it, and you will get it. that is how this planet functions.

Akbar Palace. What you said is exactly what I said if you read what I wrote again u will see that that is exactly what I argued. Israel is here to stay, and even grow, if we dont do something about it.

May 11th, 2010, 6:13 pm

 

Fares said:

Husam:

First of all, there is no trash in what I say at all.

Second, there are basic debate procedures in this world. What you just did in response to my Emanuel quotation is what is known as a fallacy. Why? because you fail to address the issue, you try and attack me not by questioning what I said, but by bringing in Rahm Emanuel and his dad into the story, which is completely irrelevant so instead of addressing the issue of Palestine, you talk about something irrelevant. But I will still respond to you by saying this:

There is a saying in Arabic that goes “Khod, O ba3dein talib”. Mean you take what you can, and THEN you ask for more. Why this is relevant? Because ironically, Israel was in the same position in 48 that the Palestinians are now, in the sense that Ben Gurion was actually unsatisfied with 242. He wanted MORE land. Just like we the Palestinians wanted all our lives. BUT, we failed to seize every opportunity to take what we can. We want it all now, or we want nothing at all, and that is precisely what we are getting. Look at the trend my friend. Oh, what we would do to get the 67 borders now, let alone the 48 ones!! I have a very good feeling that in 30 years time, when we have absolutely nothing, we are going to long for the days Netanyahu offered us a joke of a state. On the other hand, Israel was not satisfied with what it got, but it took it, and look at where it is today. The story of the success of Israel cannot be denied by anyone. It has become one of the most advanced states in under 70 years. I am not praising it. I am just saying we need to reconsider our ineffective, unintelligent and outdated strategies.

I am not making any humanitarian arguments what so ever. There is no room for that anymore, we tried our best with that battle but we lost. So lets move on and see what else we can do to secure the safety of the millions of Palestinians being massacred every day. Its about them, not you or I Husam.

Regarding you sheep comment. I don\’t know what you are implying by my saying we need to start looking at different options. Whenever someone speaks the truth or defies the status quo on the arab street, then he is a traitor and a sheep. Well, that is being stubborn and that has clearly gotten Palestine nowhere. again, just look at the map. there is always more than one way to look at things. you see the inhumanity, and I do too. But when I look at it again and again, I see lack of resolution and inability to think ahead on the part of the Arabs. Same map, same story, different perspectives.

Regarding you God comment. you dont get the point. Neither god nor the devil no anyone else in this world will give you what you want. you work for it, and you will get it. that is how this planet functions.

Akbar Palace. What you said is exactly what I said if you read what I wrote again u will see that that is exactly what I argued. Israel is here to stay, and even grow, if we dont do something about it.

May 11th, 2010, 6:14 pm

 

almasri said:

@#44 and 45,
You are a traitor regardless of your repetitive and long comments. You’re probably not even an Arab even though you claim you’re from somewhere called Nabatiye (anyone knows where this is?)

The person you most agree with in this forum is the clear badge of your treason. You should be proud of it!!!

May 11th, 2010, 6:22 pm

 

Ghat Albird said:

FARES SAID.

The story of the success of Israel cannot be denied by anyone. It has become one of the most advanced states in under 70 years. I am not praising it. I am just saying we need to reconsider our ineffective, unintelligent and outdated strategies.

One can allow that ineffective, unintelligent and outdated strategies need to be reconsidered.

One cannot blithely accept your tenuous bull about Israel’s success story. Without the $15 million dollars daily from US taxpayers every day of the year and which to date since its inception has already cost the US $1.4 TRILLION DOLLARS would Israel be as successful as you claim?

One gets the feeling that what ElMasri suggests that you mayb one of the many “hasbaras” that populate the internet is not far from the truth.

May 11th, 2010, 7:28 pm

 

Hassan said:

Al Masri:

You call people a traitor, but you’ve never heard of Nabatieh. Huh? Its a big city!!!

But go ahead, call people a traitor. Something tells me you’re enjoying life in Canada. Or perhaps not, because I don’t many people in Canada who call their interlocutors traitors for having different political views.

With people like you are around Arabs don’t need enemies. As long as we’ve got a region in which people with new or different ideas are labelled traitor, or takfir, stagnation will continue.

May 11th, 2010, 7:49 pm

 

Amir in Tel Aviv said:

Yes. You are a traitor Fares, a traitor and a loser.
Just as Ben Gurion “betrayed” the Zionist goal, as you mentioned.

Don’t expect an easy life, Fares. You are an antagonist, and you’re facing this ‘Arab street’ protagonism: “It doesn’t matter. We can always rebuild. Our dignity is more important than roofs over our heads”, says Haj Rida, a square-jawed unit commander”.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1988131,00.html

Even I do know where Nabatieh is, and I’m no Arab, thank god.
.

May 11th, 2010, 7:54 pm

 

almasri said:

I call people traitors based on what they say, and I don’t need to know where Nabatiye is for that matter.

Thanks GHAT for your valuable and very revealing comment.

Now I can guess the fellow may have been ostracised by the good people of Hezbollah for his treason.

May 11th, 2010, 8:23 pm

 

Mike Nahas said:

Ok, a view from someone in Brazil, with sentimental ties to Syria):

If I would be in Syria and Israel´s position, I would make REAL peace, by IL returning the FULL GOLAN, in exchange of REAL PEACE, and go on making a FREE TRADE AGREEMENT (I´d include Turkey and Lebanon if possible).

Why?

Because they are the only REALLY westernizable (bad English, I know) countries in the region. Syria is THE MOST Religiously speaking plural country in the region (Druze, Alawites, Suniis, Shi´as, Melchites, Suriani Orthodox, Antaquia Patr. Orthodoxs, Jews (few) , Protestants, Roman Catholics, ….), one can buy liquor, have religiously oriented courts, etc. Lebanon is Lebanon the Switzerland on the ME, and Israel can become really democratic for all (including Palestians) if it wants.

Because -without going into other arenas- they are compatible. The other Arab countries are not.

A UK Israel-Palestine (like Scotland and England) would work, potentially, I think. Foodwise, daily life, all pretty much equivalent.

If money flows everyone will be happy. I know it sounds naive, but if Israel stop looking westwise, and Syria eatwise, EVERYONE would be way happier!

Israel is forcing Syria and Lebanon (and Turkey to a certain extend) to radically Islamize themselves even more, which is a crime against human culture and Peace! The “problem” is not Shi´as or HA, or Alawites, the REAL problem is people from Muslim Brotherhood (Hamas-like)! Those want everyone to become as themselves, the old AlQaida mentality! Shiites in Iran have lived very well with Zoroastrian, Christians and Jews for centuries. They know how is to live religiously oppressed for centuries, since Hassan and Hussein times!

Just my two cents!

PS.: The majority of Brazilians, like me, do support our president and his good relations with Ahmadinejad! (Actually the majority of South Americans).

May 11th, 2010, 9:15 pm

 

jad said:

“Even I do know where Nabatieh is, and I’m no Arab, thank god”
It’s amazing how racist you are Amir! I too thank God and Allah that you are not Syrian or Arab, I’m sure that Shai and Yossi are proud of people like you in their society, you are a gem for the Jewish people.

May 11th, 2010, 11:03 pm

 

almasri said:

We need to fully understand what Free Trade means.
The history of Free Trade started with the so-called North American Free Trade Agreement between the USA, Canada and Mexico. After decades of American dominance of the smaller economies of resource-rich Canada and labour-cheap Mexico, the USA decided to formalize its defacto ownership of these American backyards. So the term Free Trade was invented. Basically, the term means what it says, i.e. the smaller parties trade with America for free. The idea was instead of these two countries going on pretending they are independent and sovereign, they become formally owned by the US since all their resources and labour will be traded for FREE with America under the terms of Free Trade. The agreement was hailed as a success in order to silence those few patriots who saw what Free Trade is all about.

American greed did not stop at the North American landscape. Instead, powerful corporation sought to generalize the model worldwide on a global basis with the ultimate aim of trading freely with the US, i.e. wholesale theft of world economies for the benefit of the US. Later on, financial institutions jumped in with poisoned investment schemes marketed worldwide under the same free trade scheme with the ultimate aim of bankrupting the whole world, as we see happening right now in Europe.

Despite very good sentimental attachments to certain lands one has to be aware of the foolishness of applying certain prescription that may result in disastrous consequences and despite the good intentions.

In other words, after stealing the land, let’s give the zionists the opportunity to steal the economies of the region – Very smart sentiment indeed!!!

That’s my one cent.

May 11th, 2010, 11:10 pm

 
 

Syria1 said:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20100511/cm_csm/300621_1

Why Syria will keep saying ‘no’ to Washington

Washington’s strategy of selective engagement with Syria has not produced any tangible results. The question is: Why does Damascus continue to do the opposite of what the Obama administration wants it to?

There are two reasons: First, Washington still lacks real leverage in its talks with Damascus. To make things worse, Syria currently enjoys a relatively comfortable position in the region, partly because of Washington’s lack of a coherent Syria policy but also because of its own efforts to develop its military alliance with Iran, enhance its political relations with Turkey and Iraq, and restore its power-broker role in Lebanese politics.

The second, and perhaps more important, reason why President Obama’s strategy has failed is because Syria is not interested in what Washington is currently selling.

Consider: The chief US goal of selective engagement is to try to take away from Syria a number of cards it holds in the region (though not all of them, given the price it would take to do so), be it Hamas, Hezbullah, or its link to militants in Iraq.
But what Washington needs to realize is that Syria’s aggregate power and influence in the Middle East is defined by these very cards. Syria will not let go of any of these, primarily because these are what keep its regime going.

Simply put, Syria will not allow the United States to pick and choose (hence the selective part of the strategy) what it wants to negotiate on, precisely because a piecemeal approach, as currently advocated by Washington, puts the Syrians in a vulnerable position vis-à-vis their adversaries, namely Israel.

Absent a comprehensive package from Washington, which would include Lebanon first and possibly peace with Israel and the return of the Golan Heights second, Syria will find it in its best interest to stall, keep its cards relatively intact, and refuse to engage in serious negotiations with the US.

Indeed, such an all-inclusive package – which Washington would be unable to (and must not) offer given its stated policy of support to Lebanon’s freedom – is the Baath regime’s only realistic long-term insurance policy.

Syria looks at its relationship with the US from a holistic perspective, while the US is currently viewing its relationship with Syria much more narrowly. Syria wants to completely overhaul the relationship and normalize it to ensure the survival of its regime, whereas the US just wants to bargain on a specific set of issues. It doesn’t take a genius to see that it simply won’t work because the two countries want different things.

One can understand why Obama is pursuing a strategy of selective engagement, given the setbacks of his predecessor’s policy of isolating Syria and the vast differences between the two countries on vital issues such as Lebanon. But US officials should keep this in mind as they talk to the Syrians: Syria will not lift a finger on any of the issues that touch US interests in the Middle East unless Washington recognizes first its hegemonic position in Lebanon and possibly its military return.

So what is the alternative? There is no easy answer, hence the very real and legitimate debate that took place on April 21 on Capitol Hill between members of Congress and US assistant secretary of State for Near Eastern affairs Jeffrey Feltman, following his testimony on Syria. As Washington contemplates a more viable strategy for Syria, it would benefit from taking note of an old piece of advice: Get real leverage before you talk to your better-prepared and tougher-minded adversary.

Bilal Y. Saab, a senior Middle East consultant with Oxford Analytica and Centra Technology Inc, is pursuing a PhD at the University of Maryland’s Department of Government and Politics.

May 12th, 2010, 12:45 am

 

Husam said:

Fares said:

“What you just did in response to my Emanuel quotation is what is known as a fallacy. Why? because you fail to address the issue,”

Of all noble men, famous quotes, history…you chose a son of a terrorist to quote. This is like 10 years from now, Osama Bin Landen’s son gets elected to Afghanistan’s Puppet government and I quote him on a prominent blog like SC and in turn, ask for respect.

Fares, your motive becomes clear. You want all Arabs to succumb to your opinion. Won’t happen. Failure in the Middle East has nothing to do with “Arab Street” and/or “Stubborness”, it has to do with Arab disunity and CORRUPTION. Mistakes were done, and some sold out.

You said: “Regarding you God comment. you dont get the point. Neither god nor the devil no anyone else in this world will give you what you want. you work for it, and you will get it. that is how this planet functions.”

My planet started with God, and will finish with God. Not everyone here is an Atheist… some of us pray a little and get what we want and wished for.

Your tone and arguments suggest that you are paid blogger. ‘nough said.

May 12th, 2010, 1:19 am

 

Fares said:

I love how non of you made any valid response to anything I said. You read Syria Comment and you don know where Nabityeh is? Its the biggest province fil jnoob..

No one is a traitor. Palestinian politicians are traitors becuase they dont know what they are doing…

Keep dreaming and praying for god to shit out a country called Palestine.. ha in your dreams

May 12th, 2010, 1:22 am

 

Ghat Albird said:

Russia to build nuclear facility in Syria. The start of the Cold War in Syria?

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-48399220100511?sp=true

May 12th, 2010, 1:36 am

 

Husam said:

Hassan Said: Does this happen in Syria?

No, not lately…sometimes attempts of honor killings happens in Jordan.

Do these happen in Israel?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/10/drugsandalcohol.uk

and this….

http://www.theawarenesscenter.org/horowitz_alan.html#United States

…what about these Hassan, do things like that happen in Israel?

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/07/nj_corruption_arrests_strike_c.html

May 12th, 2010, 1:52 am

 

Husam said:

Fares said:

“Keep dreaming and praying for god to shit out a country called Palestine.. ”

This is blasphemy! And Racist…

Obviously Fares has no respect for anyone here… it is sad to see SC infested with such primitive and uncivilized commentators.

Alex, are you listing?

May 12th, 2010, 2:00 am

 

almasri said:

I’m glad to know that nabatiyeh is Hezbollah territory. I am sure this traitor cannot go there. He is probably a fugitive somewhere with those who were kicked from the jnoob ten years ago.

May 12th, 2010, 2:40 am

 

Hassan said:

Hussam,

I didn’t mean honor killings. We all know that those occur in Syria. Many.I was asking about acid attacks. Do they happen in Syria?

I don’t really understand what the relevance of those other links is. This is a blog on Syria not Israel or the US.

Blasphemy?!?!? Who do you think you are? The mutawa? The Taliban?

May 12th, 2010, 2:41 am

 

Fares said:

Thanks Hassan.. At least someone has some basic common sense!

My comments have been taken way too out of hand and completely misunderstood. For saying we need to reconsider out strategy I am now a traitor.

Hussam, you do not represent Arabs.That is the irony about the Arab world. No single ideology or person represents us. We are more ideologically diverse than may be perceived at first. I happen to represent a more moderate one that quite frankly seems like the most logical one too.

This is about Syria and not about Palestine so lets stick to it shall we?

May 12th, 2010, 4:11 am

 

Husam said:

Fares Said:

“This is about Syria and not about Palestine so lets stick to it shall we?”

No, this is not just about Syria, this is about the Middle East with emphasis on Syria. You want to yank out and isolate the Palestinians. Syria will never do that.

Fares Said: “Hussam, you do not represent Arabs.” Really?

Fares, who are you and whom do you represent? Seriously, after quoting none other than thief and irgun-terrorist-son “Rahm Emanuel”, you must represent Israel and Zionist, while claiming to be a Palestinian. That is perplexing to say the least. I think you need more training on propaganda courses, perhaps you should seek Akbar Palace, he has a PHd in twisting truths.

Fares Said: “I happen to represent a more moderate one”. So selling out to Israel is now considered moderate… go take hike.

May 12th, 2010, 1:20 pm

 

Husam said:

Hassan & Fares are now friends, they have each others company.

Shall we give them a standing ovation for declaring “God will not shit out a company called Palestine”.

This is the language we should get accustomed to here on SC.

Hassan: The same way you wanted to know if Syrian men use acid , I wanted to know if some Rabbis and Jews alike molest children, women, launder drug money and traffic heroin in Israel like they have been caught and convicted hundreds of times in the U.S.

Are you going to answer the question?

May 12th, 2010, 1:37 pm

 

Off the Wall said:

Fares
Yes, Palestine is diminishing by the day. But to accept a non-viable state and run with it as you both seem to advocate in one way or another is akin to treason. Not in the hyperbolic sense of Almasri has been entertaining all of us with, but in a much deeper sense of the future of the region. The solutions proposed by Israel, and the agreements forged out of a very Asymmetric condition will only exacerbate the tragic situation. Any unfair agreement will only make the next round of killing more violent, and it is not good for the Palestinians, nor for Israel.

Let me give you an example of the skewed type of agreements and implementation of such agreements that are born in Asymmetric environment, Article 40 of the OSLO accord stipulated a water agreement between Israel and the Palestinian authority. Logic states that If the west bank is to become the home of Palestine, then Palestinians should have the right to develop their water resources systems, including withdrawal of water from the aquifers under their territory. Logic also dictate that Palestinians should manage these resources in sustainable manner and not withdraw beyond the safe limit of annual recharge. A joint committee was established, but the Asymmetry and greed led to the following situation. Within the west bank, only 20% of the safe yield is withdrawn by Palestinians, the remaining 80 is withdrawn by Israel, and to add insult to injury Israel withdraws 50% above the safe yield, leading to drop down in water table making additional extraction by the Palestinians beyond the capacity of their existing infrastructure. To add salt to the wound, any water project in Palestine must be approved by Israel, who has denied the Palestinians even the right to build sewage treatment facilities resulting in multiple towns being suffocated by sewage. So the practices of the Israel you are so impressed with are no less than ethnic cleansing by thirst, and by disease. Similarly agreements were signed with Jordan, in which Israel get to drill wells in Jordan, and Jordan is responsible for their maintenance. If you do not believe what I am saying, read a study by non other than the world bank that you can find at.

http://unispal.un.org/pdfs/47657-GZ.pdf

The study is a scathing indictment of Israel, as well as of the lack of capacity at the Palestinian side.

So, be careful, Lebanon will fare no better if it goes your way. Drink your last cup from the Litani if you are willing to accept hegemony based on the current imbalance. When Israel asks for guarantees regarding the water quality of qunatiera lake, i get irritated because of the hypocrisy and lack of good faith,

I do not recall who among the two of you (Hassan or Fares) who repeated the racist remark first uttered by non other than slick natenayahu (you mistakingly ascribed to Rahm Emanuel). Read the history of recent peace attempts and you find that the facts are The Israelis Never Miss an Opportunity to Sabotage an Opportunity.

The situation is changing, Israel is no longer feared as before. Balancing alliances are forming, and with few exception, Israel is being viewed as a future apartheid (not in the far future) and as a pariah state. Even militarily, all indications are that HA won the 2006 war not Israel. And its victory was decisive and humiliating to the IDF. It was on par with Israel’s best Golani Brigade, which could not even force HA fighters out of one town. It could have even ended much worse for Israel, for the air-dropped forces just before the cease fire, were encircled by HA fighters and would have been rounded up or sustained severe casualties. Was the price of destruction worght on lebanon infrastructure worth it, I do not know, but was the price of the lost lives worth it, I do not believe any life is worth losing on either side for the sake of fanatic settlers, and their backers here in the state, who keep aggravating the situation and steeling land and water, dignity, and livelihood from Palestinians.

I am not happy for that, I am unhappy anytime blood is shed. I would be happier if the Lebanese army or the Syrian army presented a real deterrence to Israel bully actions and theft of land and resources. But to accept an agreement I know it will not last and with no real teeth that disarms the neighborhood bully especially of its weapons of mass destruction, would be a fool’s choice. I am not asking for the destruction of Israel, I am asking to teach it to live as a good neighbor, not as a bully. To some, this seems like a destruction of Israel, but to others, it means the birth of a new Israel, more tuned to humanity worthy of the 21st century not of the horrors of the 20th.

May 13th, 2010, 11:53 pm

 

Ghat Albird said:

OFF THE WALL:

A quote from one of those who really counts. At least he has the guts not to hide behind an Arab name.

Rabbi Yissachar Dov Rokeach of Belz Says:

“There could be, before the arrival of Mashiach, that the Satan should succeed, and the evil doers will get a State in the Land of Israel. Their state will be a big danger for every Jew in material and spiritual matters.”

May 14th, 2010, 12:04 am

 

Husam said:

Off the Wall:

Thank you for educating all of us with history, facts, and wisdom.

May 14th, 2010, 11:44 am

 

Ghat Albird said:

A commentary about Russia’ Middle East moves.
by PAUL WOODWARD on MAY 13, 2010.

While Israel, Iraq and Afghanistan are like lead weights that limit the flexibility of the United States in the Middle East, other powers are now taking advantage of Washington’s inability to function as an agent of change.

After Russian President Dmitry Medvedev visited Turkey this week, commentator Semih Idiz wrote:

[I]f U.S. President Barack Obama’s visit to Turkey was the highlight of 2009, Medvedev’s visit to Turkey is the highlight of 2010. In fact, one can even go further and suggest that the latter visit has produced much more in terms of concrete results than the former.

There is no doubt, for example, that Washington is looking on with a certain chagrin as Turkey awards a $20 billion nuclear power plant contract to Russia and signs documents that propose a $100 billion volume of trade as well as billions of dollars worth of investments, all suggesting a rapidly growing strategic partnership.

Meanwhile, Al Jazeera reports that Russia has rejected criticism from Israel after Medvedev met the leader of Hamas in Damascus.

Israel’s foreign ministry said it was “deeply disappointed” that Medvedev had met Khaled Meshaal, the group’s exiled leader, during a visit to Syria this week.

“Hamas is not an artificial structure,” Andrei Nesterenko, the Russian foreign ministry spokesman, said in a statement on Thursday.

“It is a movement that draws on the trust and sympathy of a large number of Palestinians. We have regular contacts with this movement.

“It is known that all other participants of the Middle East quartet are also in some sort of contact with Hamas leadership, although for some unknown reason they are shy to publicly admit it,” Nesterenko said.

JOSHUA LANDIS says.

Russia will fish in the troubled waters of the Middle East. American isolation can only redound to its advantage. The Arabs and Iran will look to Russia for arms. Russia can also be gratified by the deterioration of Turkey’s relations with both Israel and the United Stats. It will continue to look for ways to frustrate U.S. efforts to add teeth to its sanctions regime against Iran.

So long as America’s No. 1 foreign-policy goal in the region is to hurt Iran and help Israel, Russia will be drawn back into the region and a new Cold War will take shape. Washington’s failure to realign relations with Iran and Syria dooms it to repeat its past. But this time Israel will be more of a millstone around its neck as it thumbs it’s nose at international law and human rights.

May 14th, 2010, 12:45 pm

 

Ghat Albird said:

Israel is testing new weaponry in Gaza that increases risks of genetic mutations

http://www.newweapons.org/?q=node/113

May 14th, 2010, 1:54 pm

 

norman said:

Ghat, OTW ,
I do not know how anybody can think that there could be peace with people and government that do what you wrote ,

May 14th, 2010, 3:27 pm

 

Ghat Albird said:

NORMAN:-

You aint seen nottin yet.

The PM of England is a direct descendant of Moses and also firth cousin removed from the Queen of England.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1198824/Cameron.html

May 14th, 2010, 4:14 pm

 

Hassan said:

Ghat Albird:

Your story about experimental weapons that cause genetic mutations reminded me of an interview with Dhiya al-Musawi ( http://www.memri.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/251/0/2471.htm ). After all, such stories are the “biscuits of conspiracy theory” that are all too common in the Arab world.

By the way, the William Hague, the Foreign Secretary of the UK, has been a member of Conservative Friends of Israel since he was 15.

May 14th, 2010, 4:30 pm

 

Ghat Albird said:

HASSAN

Your comment #73 reminded me of the Zionist patriots that murdered Count Bernadotte and Yitshak Rabin and your other patriot Jonathan Pollard.

May 14th, 2010, 4:48 pm

 

almasri said:

It is amazing how some expats who claim to be of Syrian descent have become so conditioned by the zionist propaganda machine while living among these zionists in the US. They shamelessly look at charges of treason as entertainment! Worse yet, they even call zionists neighbours! Where the hell is Palestine for you Mr. Peace lover? Up on the moon? Your so-called explanation of deep sense of treason is no less treason than the straightforward straight to the point definition that I apply. You want to share water equally and live in peace with a zionist ‘thief-neighbour? What did you learn from living among zionists and their supporters in the US? The only thing you seem to have learnt is to kneel down on your knees and compose long and empty arguments and exchange with like minded zionists who, while you were busy accommodating yourself to living according to zionist rules in your America, they were busy taking over your land! Are you aware of the saying: Ardak ‘ardak? Or have you lost it all?
Instead of the mutual master***tion of so-called peace discourse that you continually conduct with the land thieves, I suggest you offer your thanks to these thieves for taking over your land. Palestine has become to you nothing but a case of apartheid and human rights, isn’t it? And you still want entertainment?
What kind of fool calls his house’s robbers neighbours?

May 14th, 2010, 4:52 pm

 

norman said:

almasri,
I do not know whom you are talking about , but you do not have to be like them to defeat them , walk softly and carry a big stick , excitement does not bring our rights back ,

May 14th, 2010, 5:34 pm

 

almasri said:

You know who I’m talking about, Norman. I am talking about the one who calls zionists neighbours, and who thinks he can make peace with them, through master**ting nonsense discourse, if they allow him to get enough water to drink from his land.

Nevertheless, i agree with most of what you say. You seem to have escaped zionist conditioning in America unlike other expats who have fallen way below the knee.

May 14th, 2010, 6:14 pm

 

Hassan said:

Norman,

I agree.
Those who want to deprive people of their rights will be successful by calling others “traitors.” Labeling others traitors is an easy way to make those you disagree with you afraid of you. After all we know what the punishment for treasonous behaviour is. The person who calls others traitor is like a takfiri. Its the tool of the Bathis (Saddam or Bashar nafsashee).

May 14th, 2010, 6:20 pm

 

norman said:

Almasri ,
Ther are no Syrian traiters on this Blog ,

Hassan , you are better off talking a name that reflect wher you come from

May 14th, 2010, 6:41 pm

 

Hassan said:

Norman,

Inti min wheyn? Canada? Tehki 3raby? La? Akeed la. Modhek.

May 14th, 2010, 6:48 pm

 

Ghat Albird said:

NORMAN

There are traitors and then there are the chosen ones even in the US.

All non jewish Americans are advised that Attorney General Eric Holder made perfectly clear last spring in the hate bill’s Senate Judiciary hearing that Jews are protected from indictment under the hate law. Meanwhile, indicted whites, Christians and conservatives face at least triple penalties.

In re:Hassan’s real name the Arabic word for him is مخنث

May 14th, 2010, 7:15 pm

 

Off the Wall said:

Almasri

Enough beating around the bush. Share your proposal with all of us on this site and show us how do you want to get there, give us a time-line, and let us talk seriously. Not in hyperbolic generalities.

I am a Syrian, an Arab American, and your empty slogans will not change that. It is amazing that I have to fend you and AP off within the matter of minutes. You share much more than either one of you would like to admit. People like the two of you will get everyone burnt. And guess what, both of you are willing to fight with other people blood. How convenient.

You offer only adjectives and generalizations, name calling, and I offer realities and indictment of inhumane practices. I offer realities that can reach everyone, that can touch people’s mind. The only thing your reactionary shouts touch is the ear drums, where they bounce back and go dismissed.

May 14th, 2010, 7:48 pm

 

Off the Wall said:

Dear Norman
I do not know how anybody can think that there could be peace with people and government that do what you wrote

It is only done because they can do it with impunity, so if one is to make the price for aiding and abetting Israeli atrocities expensive, especially economically, impunity will deteriorate. Developing deterrence capabilities is also important.

May 14th, 2010, 8:01 pm

 

Hassan said:

Come on guys. The Baathists don’t want peace. You all know that right? They want regime security. Compromise will only diminish there ability to stay in power. If they pursue peace they can no longer be the “beating heart of Arab nationalism.” The Baathist are Arab national socialists. They want victory, not peace.

May 14th, 2010, 8:30 pm

 

Ghat Albird said:

Come on guys. The Israelis are on a mission. You all know that right.Their “mission” (and Israelis frequently use this term “mission”) is to disarm other people, to dissolve anything which is not Jewish or Jewish-controlled, to grind the people down to a powder. The Israelis are Jewish racists. They want to control others as they control America.

Oh. One other, by now very evident point. Syria sticks in their craw.

May 14th, 2010, 9:06 pm

 

almasri said:

OTW, what is the use of offering you anything when you think of treason as entertainment?

Norman, treason is not a characteristic of any national group in particular. Still, you cannot deny some Syrian expats have been conditioned by zionists. They call that political correctness, even if one has to go down on his knees and muster**te. When someone reaches that state, he begins lecturing others about the virtues of his so-called ‘humanitarian’ approach. That is when you become certain he is cosumed amunition – useless.

May 14th, 2010, 10:01 pm

 

jad said:

What’s wrong with you P.O.S’s Hassan, Amir, Akabr, Almasri and Hasaballah gang today, you all seem to become barking dogs, your true nature I say!!?

Almasri:
OTW politely asked you to give an ‘Idea’ he didn’t ask your ‘SEXUAL’ ‘JO’ ‘PORN’ opinion on anything, because your opinion sounds as useless and as low as AP, Hassan, Amir and any jerk of those usual creepy faceless, brainless, useless cowards we see day in and day out on SC.
Dude; if you have nothing to offer when you squeeze the dry sponge in your small wooden head then you better shut your filthy mouth and read silently instead of those stupid vulgar comments of yours, it’s brining nothing but your bad breath and shallow thinking on here.

May 14th, 2010, 10:36 pm

 

Off the Wall said:

Almasri
I am not responsible for your adrenalin level that gets you racing through text without even contemplating its meaning. I did not say treason is entertaining, I said your way of throwing the accusation is. And there is a big difference between the two.

Without democratic reforms, the latent energy of the Arab people will remain cocooned and will never see the light. But we have one problem, free debate of ideas seems to irritate some people. And it is easy to throw accusation and call one a traitor to de-legitimize them. Show me how did i betray anything. I am sticking to declared position by every Arab country, I am even doing more than that, I am exposing the little details of the atrocities of occupation. You call it evil, but you constantly fail to show why except for slogans about land, well people are what matter, and while I talk about a people being driven to despair and disease by through theft of their water, you come with pathetic drop of water image. Go ahead and reject, look for the past. I look for the future, and I hold you and the likes of you on our side responsible for stunting our development and preventing every Arab country, and the collective of the Arabs in general from achieving our potential. It does not matter that you are against the tyrant of Egypt, or for the Palestinian cause, because by throwing accusations the way you do, you are using the tyrant’s language and methods. If you get the chance to lead, your first action would be to declare marshal law and hang people first for what they say, and second for what they think. You betray your people everyday, simply by imitating the tyrants who call every other point of view a treason, and the occupier who call every resistance terrorism.

Yes, I want to be useless to people like you, but I and people like me are by no means spent ammunition. We are the ammunition that matters. I want no part in the continuing decline of an entire nation. I am for calm, deliberate work, for building capacity to resist, for building capacity to deter, and for better future for the people of Syria. A future empty of slogans, and full of self awareness, of debate, of hard work, of progress, and of being able to confront any challenge unafraid of people like you.

May 14th, 2010, 11:01 pm

 

almasri said:

JAD @87
Why don’t you just mind your own business and keep your big mouth zipped? Who do you think you are?

OTW,
I did read your last comment carefully. I legitimately accused two people who comment on this blog of treason. You know who they are, and, unless they happen to be impostors, you cannot deny that they are so based on what they said. You still considered that entertainment. So, please go back and read your comment and then try to convince me otherwise.

Now it is your turn. What is the future that you’re looking for? I fail to see anything bright in your plan except going down on your knees and pleading for crumbs (are you aware of Perez’s latest so-called peace offer through Russia? If not, you should find out and have a big laugh). And you think you can remotely invigorate Arab and Syrian latent energy from a comfortable house in zionist-ruled America? Dream on my friend. You have been conditioned, and you have become part of the problem despite all your good intentions. Now, there is a big difference between treason and conditioning. So don’t come back to me saying I’m throwing accusations against you. You have good intentions. I grant you that, but that is not good enough.

You cannot negotiate with zionism. You have to reject it and devise active means to extinguish it from existence as an evil that needs to be shunned and relegated to the dustbin. First and foremost you have to extinguish it from your psych and refrain from any form of debate with any of its adherents, because there is nothing to gain from such debate, but a lot to lose.
You don’t have to abide by any Arab country’s official position. You have the luxury to express yourself freely where you live. So use that luxury for a good cause, and not as you were intended to use it through conditioning.

May 14th, 2010, 11:46 pm

 

Ghat Albird said:

AL Maasri.

While I must admit that often times its ennervating to read a few selected individuals write but its time to consider amending your comments to reflect the machinations of those you oppose.

1. Very rarely is their objective to criticise Syria. Their comments are overwhelmingly directed at the President of Syria and the Baathist.

2.Their objecive is always PEACE. Israel is committed to PEACE. By inference to so are the Palestenains its HAMAS that are the bad guys. That Israel is for PEACE WITH EVERYBODY….. its those EVIL BAATHIST, HAMAS AND HIZBALLAH that need to be controled.

3. Of particular interest is their mass hysteria responses and personal attacks to Dr. Goldstone and his report condemning their brutal actions in Gaza. The illogic of their thought process is primarely the reason for the actions other peoples throughtout history from different ethnic backgrounds reacted/treated them as some historians claim..

You may want to practice similar approaches that have been made on a daily basis on SC.

May 15th, 2010, 12:01 am

 

almasri said:

Ghat,

I see the points you’re trying to make. But, for an Arab, it means becoming a hypocrite trying to do what you’re saying. And what do you gain for falling into hypocrisy? Just scoring few worthless media points? The Professor is doing that and he is good at it. So let him do it.
We know that zionists are in full control of the media in America. There is no sense in trying to compete with them, especially if that means you have to become a hypocrite like them by following their ways. Our rights have to stand on their own without need for machination.

May 15th, 2010, 12:31 am

 

jad said:

“Why don’t you just mind your own business”
When you attack anybody on here for no particular reason, it becomes my business, so try not to cross the line and I wont write you any comment!
“Who do you think you are?”
You know very well who I am and I know very well who you are, we have history!
Try to keep it cool!

May 15th, 2010, 12:33 am

 

almasri said:

JAD @92
Whatever I say is NONE of your business and keep that engraved in your head and never forget it again.
I do not CARE who you think are or whatever your history is. That is your own business.

May 15th, 2010, 1:04 am

 

Husam said:

Ghat, OTW, Norman, JAD:

Please guys, I know you are more clever than I, the last 30 posts or so were wasted energy. This is precisely the startegy of A.P. Hassan, Fares et al. They flared up Almasri, his hormones get elevated (he called me traitor too a month ago because my business partner is a jew), and we end up in tit for tat loosing any meaningful and productive conversation. And it is not about Almasri only, its about all of us. Tip: The Stern Gang are quiet now, aren’t they?

Just this morning I suggested a sign-up membership ($20 or free) in order to post comments here. Everyone is mum about it, why? Aren’t you guys fed up of anonymous postings….have you guys got any other ideas, lets hear them. It is so easy to come on SC and spew b.s. in seconds under an alias or two. Nowadays, you can’t do that with any reputable exchange. The least they ask you to do is to sign up. This will prevent the same poster of using various names so easily (I believe this happens frequently). I say $10-20, because you need a credit card…so the circus will be toned down.

May 15th, 2010, 1:42 am

 

Jad said:

Empty head Majid Almasri Al 3alak:
When you write something on a public website everybody and anybody can comment on your almighty stupid thoughts, therefore, sit down and give your brain a rest, you’re getting more annoying than your usual abnoxious self, have your medication!

May 15th, 2010, 1:56 am

 

almasri said:

Husam, Could you qoute this accusation that you claim I made against you a month ago? Or should we believe you on the face of it based on your apparent medical insights with which you can diagnose people remotely from behind your computer screen?

JAD, you’re not worth few hormones according to Husam’s analysis.

May 15th, 2010, 3:24 am

 

jad said:

OH, I didn’t know that you are having your monthly period Almasri.
It must be hard for you to control all those hormones. Happy Period to you and try to keep your hormones under control next time.

May 15th, 2010, 4:12 am

 

almasri said:

JAD @97,
hehehe… what an *****le?

That’s one hormone you can use to zip your mouth (sorry ***) with.

May 15th, 2010, 4:23 am

 

jad said:

Nice! Keep barking **f **f until you get tiered…go on, Bark!

May 15th, 2010, 4:35 am

 

Off the Wall said:

Dear Husam
Most of the times, i tend to ignore attacks and accusations and focus on the point I am trying to make. And i think most genuine posters who do not change identity do the same. But occasionally, the attack goes beyond the personal. The concept of treason is important and it has to be debated because it is the weapon used by totalitarians, including I am afraid, some of the opposition movements in the Arab world.

That said, you are absolutely right, occasionally, debate degenerates into shouting match. I was also called a traitor around the same time you were. Now I am a conditioned traitor. Who knows what next.

I am mindful of your recommendation, and while I hold much respect for you, I am however not in favor of charging any fees to blog on the site. I am all for voluntary contribution for maintenance and operations, but charging every poster will convert the site from a open forum into a closed club. The last thing we need now is to put any barrier, no matter how insignificant, for anyone to comment on the site.

This means that the site may be hijacked every once in while by the irgun gang with their anti-arab cut-and-paste propaganda,but every once in a while we get a brilliant post from someone who seldom blogs that makes up for all the crap they can dish out. These shy bloggers are important, and I am in favor of encouraging not discouraging them and in favor of protecting their identity.

One possible solution, but I think it requires major investment in coding, would be to log-on before you can view the site, and in there, you can customize your home page in manners that allows you ignore certain bloggers. Most serious bloggers will tune out the irgun gang in their various manifestations. The downside is that we risk letting their propaganda go unchallenged. Notice that none of them, including one who was boasting that no one responded to him, answered my post about the Asymmetric Peace deals. The only answer was from the reincarnated brother from the land of kinanah and you know the rest of the story.

Alex may have the better answer. I am sure he does, so would Joshua.

May 15th, 2010, 6:35 am

 

Akbar Palace said:

Fending Off the Extremists

It is amazing that I have to fend you and AP off within the matter of minutes. You share much more than either one of you would like to admit.

OTW,

You’re doing a great job “fending off” Al Masri and myself. However, IMHO, you and al-Masri are more alike. You both can’t bring yourselves off the “bash Israel” line.

At least Hassan and I recognize both an Israeli and a Palestinian state, and that it is more than just the Israelis that are preventing a peace agreement from beingn signed.

May 15th, 2010, 1:11 pm

 

Husam said:

Almasri:

You take everyone for a fool, that is your problem. As I told you before kindly don’t address me directly. A month ago you lashed out @ me just for having a Jewish business partner of 11 years, yet you know nothing else about me or him for that matter. You think the worst of people and almost always misinterpret comments on SC…some times you act like a 5 year old who lost his mommy at the mall. Your are racist, and I have no interest or energy to correspond with you.

May 15th, 2010, 2:26 pm

 

Husam said:

Off The Wall:

Thank you for your prompt reply. I see where you are coming from regarding your rejection of chargin a nominal fee. But many think-tanks are closed rather than open source, and they produce great research. The negative side is that it prevents others with good intentions and thoughts from pitching in. It all depends on what the host’s objective is.

I am all for signing in, where is Josh and Alex on this??? The coding part I believe is as easy as 1-2-3 with existing codes already out there.

May 15th, 2010, 2:33 pm

 

almasri said:

Husam,
You made an accusation against me and you failed to provide any proof. ‘Lashing out’ at you, accordingly to you, is not necessarily accusing you of anything as you claim. So, clearly you suffer from a severe case of lack of comprehension.
Since you made an accusation against me and failed to prove yourself, I will be obliged to consider all your comments – past, present and future – as bullshit until you substantiate yourself and behave responsibly.
Frankly, I do not need to address you either directly or indirectly in any of my comments provided you do the same and refrain from referring to me as you did in your comments 94 and 102. Otherwise, I’ll have to respond as the situation may require.
So it is your choice.

May 15th, 2010, 3:21 pm

 

Husam said:

Almasri:

I can’t find a way to go back and copy your words and prove your behavior towards me and your racist remarks. Even if I could, I don’t have the urge or the time to sift through thousands of comments from a month ago.

Just ask yourself this question: Is it possible that we are all wrong and you are right? If I were you, I would lay low for a while.

May 15th, 2010, 5:47 pm

 

almasri said:

Husam,
I do not need your advise. I made myself clear to you in my previous comment. You are showing utter lack of comprehension, contradicting oneself and a clear tendency to fabricate.

I also do not need to lay low based on an opinion of an obvious novice. So stay away, please. After all this is what you wanted in your comment 102.

You’re getting way over your head. I suggest you go and see a real doctor before you get yourself too worked up. After all, you cannot be: tabibon youdawi alnass wa howa 3alilon. Please see your comment 94 in order to understand what this means. It would also help your health tremendously if you go back and re-read your comment(s) where you think I ‘lashed’ on you. I personally do not need to re-read it – My memory is quite sharp. I know excatly the ridiculous state you were in at the time.

So, again it is your choice.

May 15th, 2010, 6:16 pm

 

Husam said:

Almasri:

You are troubled soul.

May 15th, 2010, 10:05 pm

 

Almasri said:

Husam,
What is wrong with you? Why don’t you behave like a man and do as you say: go back and read your comment 102 and get l*st? No one wants to talk to you from this end, and that’s what you wanted, right? You are forcing yourself unnecessarily!

May 16th, 2010, 3:10 am

 

Off the Wall said:

AP
At least Hassan and I recognize both an Israeli and a Palestinian state, and that it is more than just the Israelis that are preventing a peace agreement from beingn signed.

What nonsensical propaganda. The only Palestinian state you are willing to recognize is a non-state, a collection of detached ghettos linked by few roads manned and guarded by IDF soldiers who can close any ghetto and suffocate its inhabitant so that your beloved fanatical settlers can continue to steel more land and resources. Everyone with a shred of intelligence knows the sham of your peace proposals. Your vision of a Palestinian state is nothing more than legitimizing Israeli control with the Palestinian security forces protecting the settlers.

I will recognize your peace proposal only when you recognize that no settler has the right to even a square meter of land in any occupied territory including east Jerusalem. And that they can not have their own Israeli governed enclaves in the midst of the Palestinian state leading to chopping it. If you recognize the principle, then you can recognize their illegal status and work with the Palestinian to resolve it, but you start from considering their status as legal and cement it even with funding and advocating further expansion of their criminal enterprise, that is where your proposal and words lose any pretense to honesty and sincerity.

When you recognize the illegal wall for the crime against humanity it is and demand, along with your AIPAC teachers, its immediate dismantling, then I will recognize that you are not pro-apartheid

May 16th, 2010, 9:19 am

 

Off the Wall said:

Almasri
As I was thinking of your post 89, the following article appeared on Aljazeera. Please tell me if the article below reflects your opinion, because it will make everyone on this site more reflective on what you are trying to communicate. It is a thought provoking article but it goes far beyond land. Do not worry about analyzing my comments in light of the article, I am already doing.

الحاجز النفسي
عزمي بشارة

رددنا في شبابنا بسخرية عبارات من “مأثور” الرئيس المصري الراحل أنور السادات. ومنها قوله بضرورة تجاوز الحاجز النفسي مع إسرائيل كشرط للسلام. جاء ذلك في سياق تبريره لزيارته إلى القدس ومخاطبة الكنيست في مقابلاته مع باربرا وولترز، وهي التي كان يتوجه إليها بتحبب وندية لم ينلها صحفي عربي مرددا قبل كل إجابة “دِيَر بَرْبَارا”، وكان ذلك حاله مع هنري كيسنجر الذي صار اسمه على لساننا “عزيزي هنري” محاكاة للسادات.

ولكن إسرائيل لم تسخر. لقد أخذت عبارة “الحاجز النفسي” بمنتهى الجدية.

وأعترِفُ الآن ( المتكلم هو الكاتب وليس المغنية ماجدة الرومي)، أن تشخيص السادات لزيارته كان بليغا. فما كان بوسعه أن يصف ما فعل بإيجاز أدق. وكنتُ قد وُلِدتُ قبل مرور عقد على النكبة، ولكني ولدتُ في الجانب الآخر من حاجز السادات النفسي. وما أن استشعرته حتى أخذت أغادر سياسيا وثقافيا إلى الجانب العربي، وقد كانت مغادرةً مُراوحِةً في المكان، وعدّتُها مناقضة ومناهضة ومثاقفة مع من أقام مؤسساته على خرائب شعب فلسطين.


كانت سرقة جزء هو في القلب من الوطن العربي وتشريد شعبه والاستيطان مكانه حاجزا نفسيا نوعيا كافيا لإعاقة مقاربتها كدولة طبيعية في حالة خصومة، أو حتى كدولة جارة في حالة صراع حدودي

وربما كان وقع زيارة السادات التاريخية كي يخاطب الكنيست عظيما علينا وصادما لنا، لأنه فيما كنا نكتشف أحلامنا العربية وننضجها على نار الرجولة والبلوغ، وفيما كنا نتجه نفسيا باتجاه العرب، تجاوز السادات ذلك الحاجز النفسي نحو إسرائيل. فمن فينا كان “ذاهبا إلى الحج والناس عائدة”. لم يجبنا التاريخ بعد. وما زال المتفائل منا يؤمن أن بوسعه صنع الإجابة.

فما المقصود بالحاجز النفسي؟ بغض النظر عن توزيعهم الأيديولوجي والسياسي تعامل العرب مع إسرائيل بعد النكبة ككائن استيطاني استعماري، وبالتالي غير طبيعي، ولا يجوز التعامل معه. (وقد كان لأكثر مما هو متوقع من السياسيين العرب مغامرات مع الوكالة اليهودية قبل النكبة، سوف يكتب عنها المؤرخون حين يزول الحرج الشرقي).

كانت سرقة جزء هو في القلب من الوطن العربي وتشريد شعبه والاستيطان مكانه حاجزا نفسيا نوعيا كافيا لإعاقة مقاربتها كدولة طبيعية في حالة خصومة، أو حتى كدولة جارة في حالة صراع حدودي. وكافيا لمنع قياس ما يجري فيها قياسا كميا لأغراض المقارنة والمفاضلة.

في تلك الظروف كانت إسرائيل تطالب العرب بالاعتراف بها. ولم يطلب أحد منها اعترافا. لم ينشغل العرب بتخمين هل سوف تشن إسرائيل الحرب؟ وكانت تشغل نفسها بمثل هذه الأسئلة. ولكنها كانت تجهز نفسها بنجاح لما يخطط لها العرب بدون نجاح.

لم يطالبها العرب بتطبيق شروط من أجل عقد السلام، فما بالك بمحاولة إقناعها أن السلام هو الضمان لأمنها.

في تلك الفترة لم ينكر أحد أنه يسلّح المقاومة، بل كان يعتبر تحرير فلسطين مهمة عربية. ودار النقاش حول حق الفلسطينيين بحمل السلاح بمعزل عن العرب الذين يحملون السلاح، وعن الحاجة إلى ذلك.

وكمنت المشكلة في طبيعة الأنظمة، وفشلها في توحيد الأمة، وإخفاقها البنيوي في بناء الدولة، وفي خصوماتها وتنابذها وتخاوفها.

وبعد خطوة واحدة من تجاوز الحاجز النفسي، لا تبقى حدود وينهار كل شيء. يصبح السلام والاعتراف مطلوبا من إسرائيل. وهي التي تهدد بالحرب.

في عصر تجاوز الحاجز النفسي يتحدث العربي عن كون السلام مصلحة إسرائيلية، وعن الاحترام المتبادل، وعن “ضمان أمن ووحدة أراضي كافة دول المنطقة”.

كنت في الماضي أتفاجأ من أي تعبير عربي عن إعجاب بإسرائيل وديمقراطيتها ومؤسساتها، وأنا الذي عشت غالبية عمري داخلها، وولدت فيها. اختلفت بحدة وبرقة مع أصدقاء عرب حضروا إلى المناطق المحتلة عام 1967 في أعقاب اتفاقيات أوسلو. ولكنني كنت أصعق لدى ظهور معالم إعجاب خفيٍ أو سافرٍ بإسرائيل لدى بعضهم.

من يريد أن يعجب بديمقراطية فليعجب بغيرها. لا ينقص دول تحكمها مؤسسات، فليعجب بدولة أوروبية مثلا!! فلماذا يختار صديقي الفلسطيني العائد مع جهاز المنظمة أن يعجب ويعبر عن إعجابه بالدولة التي قامت مؤسساتها على أنقاضنا؟


من عبر الحاجز النفسي بقبول إسرائيل، لكي يبرر لنفسه قبول السلام والتسوية معها، لا تبقى حواجز تمنعه من الإعجاب بها, وإذا طويت النكبة في النسيان، وجرى تجاهل كيف قام كيان الصهيونية السياسي، فما الذي يمنع من الإعجاب به؟

هنا لب المسألة. فمن عبر الحاجز النفسي بقبول إسرائيل، لكي يبرر لنفسه قبول السلام والتسوية معها، لا تبقى حواجز تمنعه من الإعجاب بها. وإذا طويت النكبة في النسيان، وجرى تجاهل كيف قام كيان الصهيونية السياسي؟ وإذا غدا مجرد دولة طبيعية جارة مختلف معها على الأراضي التي احتلت عام 1967، فما الذي يمنع من الإعجاب بها؟ أليست دولة حديثة وديمقراطية لليهود؟ ألا تقوم بكل شيء، بما فيه مصادرة الأرض بشكل قانوني؟ ألا تقيم لجان تحقيق بعد المجازر؟ ألا تقيل قادتها وتحاكمهم على قضايا فساد؟ أليست لديها جامعات أفضل، وتأمينات اجتماعية وسيادة قانون؟

والغريب أن ما يمكن تعلمه فعلا من تجربتها ألا وهو عملية بناء الأمة من شتات وهجرات، وتجديد واستخدام اللغة العبرية والمؤسسات والجيش في بنائها، في الوقت الذي جرى فيه تشتيت الفلسطينيين وتفتيت الأمة العربية، هو بالضبط ما يجري تجاهله من قبل المعجبين، لأنه قد يؤدي إلى مواجهة العجز أمامها.

لا شك أن القمع الاحتلالي يومي. ومحاولة فرض إرادة الاحتلال على شعب بأكمله لا بد أن تكون عنيفة. ولا يمكن تجنّب المقاييس الكمية بعدد البيوت المهدَّمة، والأرض المصادرة والقتلى والجرحى والمعتقلين. فهي تعبيرات يومية عن الاحتلال. إنها أحداث مترتبة عن وجوده.

ولكن مقياس الموقف من إسرائيل ليس كميًا. فالاستعمار هو قضية فرض إرادة في مقابل سلب إرادة، وسطو على وطن في مقابل تشريد سكانه وفقدان الوطن.

ومن نسي المسألة الرئيسية، واستحوذت عليه المقاييس الكمية سقط في محظورَي المبالغة والاختزال. فمن يرغب في تقليل حجم المعاناة الفلسطينية، يباشر فورا بالمقارنة الكمية للمعاناة مع إبادة شعوب أخرى. يقارن الاعتقالات في إسرائيل بالاعتقالات في دولة استبدادية، ويقارن إطلاق النار على المتظاهرين في إسرائيل مع المذابح التي تقدم عليها بعض الأنظمة بالمتظاهرين.

وغالبا ما يلجأ هذا الاختزال الراغب بالتقليل من شأن مركزية قضية فلسطين بانتقائية اختزالية في وصف حال الفلسطينيين، والإكثار من الحديث عن المؤسسة والمحاكم وحكم القانون في إسرائيل. فيضطر المتمسك بالموقف من إسرائيل إلى اعتبار الفلسطينيين أكثر الشعوب معاناة في التاريخ، وإلى تشبيه أي قصف بالمحرقة النازية، وإلى اعتبار كل حرب حرب إبادة، حتى الشهداء الذين سقطوا وهم يقاومون يعتبرون ضحية مجزرة.

والحقيقة أنه نقاش سياسي يخاض بأدوات خاطئة. فمن يبالغ يسيء لقضية عادلة، (وهل تحتاج سرقة وطن إلى مبالغة؟)، أما من يختزل فيرمي في الواقع إلى التشكيك بعدالة القضية، فهو يعتبرها قضية كمية من المعاناة مقارنة بغيرها. وهو يراها كذلك لأنه تجاوز الحاجز النفسي.


الظلم اللاحق بشعب فلسطين ظلم عظيم, والتضحيات جسام, والخسائر فادحة لشعب يناضل منذ مائة عام, الجرائم والمذابح الإسرائيلية فظيعة قياسا بما ارتكب في أمكان أخرى, والثقافة الاستيطانية التي جثمت سفيهة وبذيئة بكل مقياس

الظلم اللاحق بشعب فلسطين ظلم عظيم. والتضحيات جسام. والخسائر فادحة لشعب يناضل منذ مائة عام. الجرائم والمذابح الإسرائيلية فظيعة قياسا بما ارتكب في أمكان أخرى. والثقافة الاستيطانية التي جثمت سفيهة وبذيئة بكل مقياس.

إنها آخر مسألة استعمارية في هذا العصر. إنها قضية استعمار استيطاني مستمر، يعيد تشكيل بلدان ومجتمعات لمئات ملايين العرب بموجب متطلباته. فإن قبول إسرائيل ككيان طبيعي أو رفض قبولها، يعني رفض أو قبول استعمار فلسطين، ومن شأن أي موقف منهما أن يعيد تشكيل الكيان والوعي العربي كله. أهو وعيٌ مستعمَر أم لا؟ هذه هي المسألة.

والصراع العربي مع إسرائيل ككيان استعماري استيطاني في قلب المنطقة، بما فيه القضية الفلسطينية التي ترتبت على إنشاء إسرائيل، هو قضية الأمة، وليس مسألة تضامن مع الفلسطينيين، ولا هي قضية الفلسطينيين، أو للدقة، ليست “مشكلتهم” التي ينبغي أن يتعاملوا معها وأن يتدبروا أمرهم بشأنها. والمقاومة خيار التحرير في سياق هذا الصراع. أما خارجه، فيكفي المقاومة فخرا أنها صمود فحسب.

وما يصح بشأن فلسطين يصح بشأن العراق وبشأن كل أرض عربية محتلة نتيجة للعجز العربي في الدفاع عن تكامل هذا الوطن العربي، أو نتيجة لتواطؤ دولة عربية ضد دولة عربية، أو تأليب شعب عربي آخر. كل أرض عربية محتلة هي قضية العرب، ومركزية فلسطين نابعة من أنها عنصر مكوّن أساسي في الهوية والوعي العربيين، ولأن استعمارها استيطاني يرمي إلى الديمومة ويعاد تصميم المنطقة على قياسه.

وهي قضية العرب لأن النظام السياسي العاجز عن حفظ حقوق المواطن العربي وكرامته هو نفسه النظام العاجز عن الدفاع عن الوطن العربي. وهو نفسه الرافض للانضواء في إطار مفهوم للأمن القومي العربي. إنه النظام السياسي الرسمي العربي الذي لا يعترف أصلاً بالوطن العربي مفهوما وممارسة إلا لأغراض التحريض الطائفي والمذهبي.

وهنالك علاقة جدلية بين التحرر العربي والتحرير. لا ينبغي أن يُقَدَّمُ أحدُهما على الآخرِ آلياً، ولا أن تُؤَجَّل مهمةٌ تاريخية انتظاراً لأخرى. ويشكّل كل تطور اقتصادي سياسي اجتماعي على الساحة العربية دفعاً لقضية التحرير، إذا كان تطوراً مرتبطاً بأجندات وطنية لا بموجب معايير الاستعمار. ويساهم كل إنجاز في الصراع ضد الاستعمار الاستيطاني لفلسطين، وضد احتلال مناطق عربية أخرى، في تعزيز نزعة التحرر العربية من التخلف ومن قيود الاستبداد.

ولا يمكن التوقع من نظام يضطهد شعبه أن يحمل خيراً لشعب آخر.


وصل التفكير الرسمي إلى حد مقولة: “لا نريد أن نحارب، ولا نريدكم أن تقاوموا”, فمُنِعت المقاومة بداية من الانطلاق من الدول العربية المحيطة بإسرائيل, ثم من داخل الأراضي المحتلة عام 67 ومن خارجها, لأن الإستراتيجية الوحيدة المسموح بها حتى على الساحة الفلسطينية هي إستراتيجية المفاوضات

لقد تبين أنه لا توجد حدود واضحة لمسار التدهور القائم بشأن فلسطين منذ أن تم تجاوز الحاجز النفسي حتى وصلنا إلى رئيس عربي يهنئ إسرائيل بإنشائها. فالنظام الرسمي العربي الذي أكد منذ العام 1974 على مقولة “الممثل الشرعي والوحيد للشعب الفلسطيني” لكي يحرر نفسه من مهمة محاربة إسرائيل، بدأ بتبني مقولة أن المقاومة شأن الفلسطينيين الذي يجب دعمه عربيا. ثم تبين أن المقاومة تشكل عقبة أمام “عملية السلام” أو أمام العلاقات مع إسرائيل فتحوّل إلى منع المقاومة أو محاربة المقاومة.

لقد وصل هذا النوع من التفكير إلى: “لا نريد أن نحارب، ولا نريدكم أن تقاوموا”. فمُنِعت المقاومة بداية من الانطلاق من الدول العربية المحيطة بإسرائيل الواحدة تلو الأخرى. ثم تبين في الحرب على غزة أن هذا التفكير يقود إلى منع المقاومة داخل الأراضي العربية المحتلة عام 1967، وليس فقط من قِبَل الدول المحيطة بإسرائيل، والتي كانت تُعرَفُ بدول المواجهة. وقام بعد اتفاقيات أوسلو محور عربي فلسطيني يحاول أن يمنع مقاومة الاحتلال الإسرائيلي من خارج المناطق المحتلة عام 1967 كما من داخلها، لأن الإستراتيجية الوحيدة المسموح بها حتى على الساحة الفلسطينية هي إستراتيجية المفاوضات.

أما “حق الشعوب في مقاومة الاحتلال” فتغدو في نظر هؤلاء مقولة نظرية مهما كانت صحيحة. لقد آن أوان تغييرها لتصبح: واجب الشعوب في مقاومة الاحتلال ودعم مقاومة الاحتلال مثلما هو واجب الشعوب في مقاومة الظلم والاستبداد.

المصدر: الجزيره

http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C959396A-F8B7-4077-9B97-414F897CEFE5.htm

May 16th, 2010, 10:57 am

 

Shai said:

OTW,

I think Israelis and Palestinians are not going to move ahead by demanding certain “recognitions” of one another, at least not at this stage. Few Israelis will ever accept that they’ve contributed to crimes against humanity, be it in 1947-48, or since. And few Palestinians will ever “recognize” Israel as the Jewish State. So then how CAN we move ahead, or is it even possible? I think that ultimately progress will be made only when both sides realize that they don’t really have a choice. Namely, that by keeping the status-quo, their own vision of a good future is worsening by the day.

In Israel’s case, most Israelis still fear a non-Jewish majority. Once most Israelis begin to really understand that with each day that passes, our Occupation is bringing upon us an inevitability of a single state, in which Jews are not a majority, then there is a chance for “an awakening”, the type of which Ariel Sharon apparently experienced (and which led to his declaration of the end of a Greater Israel.)

In the Palestinians’ case, it will come when they recognize that remaining divided, also and especially over the issue of accepting Israel’s basic existence, does not serve their interests. Just as the PLO had to eventually change its charter (calling for the destruction of Israel), so too will Hamas have to do the same. Something will have to occur – the return of Gilad Shalit, finding something else in common to discuss – which will bring Hamas to the negotiation table, preferably after reconciliation with Fatah. Israel will have to provide its own CBM to Hamas, probably in the form of many hundreds of prisoners released. A bridge of some sort will have to form.

But since it does not look like any of these things will occur soon, and in the meanwhile even talks with Fatah are indirect, then we must move along other “easier” routes, such as the Syrian/Lebanese one. If, by some miracle, Israel and Syria/Lebanon can come to agreement, a certain amount of optimism and positive pressure will be created, upon both Israelis and Palestinians, to go the last mile and reach a final peace agreement. Neither side will want to be accused of being last because of stubbornness based on the past. Both peoples will finally “smell” the end within sight.

But I doubt anyone is ready for too much “recognition” at this stage. It requires too much self-introspection and self-confidence, the likes of which have not been seen in our region in a long long time.

May 16th, 2010, 11:22 am

 

almasri said:

Thanks very much OTW for the Azmi article. This man is an encyclopaedia with a very sharp mind. He articulated the issue very eloquently.
What Sadat did was a greater crime than the nakba itself. No wonder he shared so-called noble prize with an irgun thug.
I have no problem with your analysis (if you mean by that your previous reply to the AIPAC mouthpiece) in principle. We should recognize however that so-called peace in the Middle East is not attainable considering the existential nature of the conflict. This is something the Arabs have to come to grips with. If you consider officialdom of Arabia, I believe the Assad regime is probably one of the few who have this vision. However, I still do not understand the aim behind so-called sometimes on sometimes off peace talks over Golan. Is it just for media consumption? Or is it for real? I am not sure. I made a remark sometime ago that Egypt can live without liberated Palestine, and that is probably why Sadat was able to get away with his deception of the Egyptians. However, Syria cannot just pretend that all is well once the Golan is back – if ever. Syria cannot live without a liberated Palestine. Palestine is part of Syria’s history more than any other party in the region as well as an integral part of its geography.
That said, the Palestinians have no other choice but to go back to the methods they used when Sheikh Yassin was alive. Hamas’ emphasis on maintaining political authority is conflicting with its original mandate – even though one could argue they have no choice in light of the sentry role played by Abbas and Dayton in the occupied territories.

Once again, thanks for a very enlightening piece.

May 16th, 2010, 3:42 pm

 

Ugly architecture, outdated laws and the Shebaa farms « In the Middle of the East said:

[…] And some political pieces: not that there is any burning or breaking news about it, but Syriacomment recently provided an in-depth look at the history of that tiny piece of Lebanon which Israel keeps occupying to sustain Hezbollah’s credibility as a resistance against actually existing occupation (the zionist country desperately needs external enemies to keep its own conflict-ridden society from disintegrating into civil strife): ‘Located atop a hill, the Shebaa Farms (or hamlets) are important to both water resources and politics in the region. On May 21st, 2000, after Israel withdrew from Lebanon, ending its occupation that lasted over 20 years, Hezbollah and Syria claimed that the Jewish State still occupied a piece of land northeast of Mt. Hermon in the Golan Heights. That territory, which few had heard about previously, is made up of 14 farms. It is located at the three corners where Lebanon, Syria and Israel share a border. (..) Despite the Shebaa area being small in size (approx. 16 sq.m), the problem is difficult. The village of Shebaa is located in Lebanon, northeast of “Djebel ech-Cheikh” (Mount Hermon) while its farms are located south of the mountian. From the Mandate in 1920 to the Six-Day War of 1967, the farms were considered Syrian territories de jure, i.e. on the maps. During that period – and before – the Lebanese farmers used to cross the mountain area to reach their fields, which were cultivated with apple orchards. Thus, Lebanon and Syria were artificially separated in the Shebaa region by the Wadi el-’Assal, a stream. The Lebanese farmers considered that the river to be the border between the two countries. French authorities did not take into account the Lebanese farmers who crossed the borders to their who had to reach their farms. (…) In 1950, after the 1948 War, Syria installed an advanced military observation post and carried out topographical surveys in the farms. Thus, from 1920 to 1967, the Shebaa Farms were deemed to be Syrian land on military maps despite the fact that almost all the cultivator of the region were Lebanese and few Syrians lived there. In 1967, Israel invaded the Golan Heights and took the Shebaa Farms. The Israelis expelled the Lebanese farmers that were living there. (…) In 1978, the Israeli Defense Forces transformed the farms into a buffer zone and adorned them with Hebrew road signs. Israel distributed national ID’s that were refused by the majority of the farmers. When Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000 after 18 years of occupation, the Shebaa Farms became central to Hezbollah’s continuing justification for war against Israel. In 2006, during the “33-days War”, the Shebaa Farms issue took central stage.’ […]

May 19th, 2010, 6:27 pm

 

Le gaz naturel, nouvelle pomme de discorde à la frontière libano-israélienne | Rumor said:

[…] à celui de la frontière syro-libanaise (et notamment le problème de Shebaa) (voir ici et une note de Matthieu Cimino dans Syria Comment), objet de nombreuses dissensions entre la majorité et […]

July 17th, 2010, 4:31 am

 

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