Israel Wins Twice

“Israel Wins Twice”

But the wins cancel each other out, alas.

Hamas’ leader Khalid Mashaal has agreed to recognize Israel and stop all resistance to the Jewish State if it accepts to return to its internationally recognized borders and comply with international law, permitting the two state solution in line with 1967 borders. Here is the story by Derhally:

Hamas Chief Says Resistance Stops at End of Israeli Occupation: Hamas would end its resistance if Israel retreated to the 1967 borders before the Six Day War and ended the occupation of Palestinian lands, the group’s political leader Khalid Mashaal said. (View the Charlie Rose show during which Mashaal say this)

The second win was the banner headline in Israel’s Ma’ariv which read: Netanyahu: “I Won”. The article stated:

Netanyahu is pleased by the fact that the Americans failed, so he said, to twist his arm and that ultimately, in the duel between him and the Obama administration, he was the one who emerged with the upper hand. We did not make concessions on our red lines and they failed to make us fold and to drag us to places we didn’t want to go, said Netanyahu, according to people who heard him speak.

By this Netanyahu means that the Obama administration will not unduly pressure Israel to comply with international law, the two state solution, and the cessation of settlement expansion. Khalid Mashaal’s concession will be meaningless. Of course, President Obama will continue to insist that US policy is the fulfillment of international law and the two state solution, but he will do precious little to enforce it. Why? Elections.

Ma’ariv quotes an unnamed source in Washington:

“The Democratic Party’s coffers are empty. Many Democrat members of Congress and Senators have complained that if the hazing of Israel were to continue, they would be unable to obtain donations from Jews and were liable to lose the elections,” ….

In 2002, when the Arab League states announced that they were prepared to recognize Israel and end all hostilities if it accepted UN resolution 242 and allow for a Palestinian state in the Palestinian land it occupied in 1967, Israel ignored it. Today, Israel will ignore Mashaal’s statement.

Addendum: See A Day in November by Uri Avnery. He asks: “What will happen the day after the elections?”

Optimists believe that on that morning, a new era will start. No further elections are planned before November 2012, when Obama’s first term expires. For an entire year, at least, he will be free to act.

That is a “window of opportunities”. A wide-open window. During this time Obama can realize his hope of bringing peace and retrieve the position of the US in the Middle East. As an added bonus, he will also be able to vent his accumulated fury against Netanyahu.

According to this forecast, in this one year, from the end of 2010 to the end of 2011, the final act of the drama will be enacted. Obama will present an American peace plan, the pressure on the Israeli government will intensify, Israel will finally have to choose between peace and territories, peace will at long last be on its way.

But there is also an opposite forecast: Obama will continue to disappoint, as he has disappointed until now. He will already be thinking about the next presidential election and continue to be afraid of AIPAC.

This forecast has a lot going for it. When I was very young, my father admonished me never, but never, to yield to blackmail. He who pays a blackmailer once will continue to pay to his last day. A blackmailer never lets go of his victim.

(In the course of my life I have tried to adhere to this advice. My technique is this: when somebody tries to blackmail me, threatening to do me some harm, I imagine that he has already done so. This way, the threat loses its sting.)

AIPAC is blackmailing Obama, and until now it has been successful. It will go on doing so after November. Obama should face up to the idea and decide: no more.

Will he have the courage to do so? I don’t know. I hope.

Comments (126)

Akbar Palace said:

Professor Josh,

If you haven’t already noticed, every leader in the world is spitting in Obama’s face, including your most esteemed world leader, Bashar Assad. He and his side-kick Hillary project weakness and world leaders take advantage of it.

It wouldn’t be fair to single out Benjamin Netanyahu, but what else can we expect from ME academia these days?

At least Israel has a US ambassador on her soil…

May 29th, 2010, 2:07 pm


Ghat Albird said:


Professor Josh,

At least Israel has a US ambassador on her soil…

Or the puppeteer and his puppet ?

May 29th, 2010, 4:55 pm


Ghat Albird said:

Another outburst of the hysterical, “We are right and the whole world is wrong”. zionist drumbeat.

I srael has denounced as ‘hypocritical’ the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review conference’s closing statement, which calls on Tel Aviv to abandon its nuclear weapons.

The NPT Review Conference wrapped up in New York on Friday with a declaration to discuss creating a nuclear-weapons-free zone in the Mideast in 2012, calling on Israel to join the disarmament treaty.

Widely believed to be the sole possessor of a nuclear arsenal in the region, Israel has constantly refused to reject or confirm its status as a nuclear power under a US-backed policy of “nuclear ambiguity.”

“This accord has the hallmark of hypocrisy. Only Israel is mentioned, while the text is silent about other countries like India, Pakistan and North Korea, which have nuclear arms, or even more seriously, Iran, which is seeking to obtain them,” AFP quoted a senior Israeli official as saying Saturday.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, went on to reiterate the US-led allegation that Iran harbors a secret agenda for developing nuclear arms.
“The fact that no reference is made to Iran is even more shocking, given that the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) has disclosed more and more information in recent months on the military character of Iranian nuclear projects,” the official added.

The vote was unanimous.

May 29th, 2010, 5:53 pm


why-discuss said:

Pakistan, India have always admitted they have nuclear weapons, Israel thought it was smart to hide the fact. This resolution will finally oblige it to come out of the closet. They either scrap their bombs and accept to be inspected by the IAEA or stop calling for sanctions on Iran, already under IAEA control.

May 29th, 2010, 6:36 pm


almasri said:

Dear Alex, Joshua, other SC moderators,

It is extremely painful for Muslims to tolerate a comment such as #5 above which clearly denigrates the Holy Prophet of Islam – Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon Him.

I, personally, have for the most part followed SC rules by refraining from attacking Jews as Jews and have maintained my attacks on zionists and not the Jewish religion as per SC recommendations.

I kindly ask that you remove the offending comment and would strongly suggest issuing a warning to the person who made the comment.

Thank you…

May 29th, 2010, 7:11 pm


Amir in Tel Aviv said:

You’re such a drama queen, Masri. And full of pathos.

May 29th, 2010, 7:37 pm


annie said:

Amir is probably highly sensitive when it comes to Jews but what right does he have and mock Masri even calling him a queen !

The flotilla wants to make a point about the absurdity of the blockade and draw the light on the forgotten people of Gaza.

The Israeli hasbara is incredible : the flotilla is a threat to peace they say. What peace ? The phosphorous peace ? The checkpoints, the daily humiliations, you call that peace ?

May 29th, 2010, 8:08 pm


almasri said:

Dear SC moderators,

The attacker of Islam and its Prophet (PBUH) is suggesting that I am appealing to your emotions and implying a denial that he actually made a flagrant attack against Islam, the Religion. The attack in comment 5 speaks for itself. I am also strictly appealing to your rational faculties, not to your emotions and to the outlined rules posted for the purpose of moderating comments on this website.

Thank you again…

May 29th, 2010, 8:11 pm


annie said:

GHAT ALBIRD : I had read the first part of the news, and had a nervous laugh when I read the second one. these people are sick psychopaths.
The whole country is ripe for a collective therapy. But they shoot their therapists like Pappe and the other courageous Israelis who save the lot from universal contempt.

May 29th, 2010, 9:27 pm


Akbar Palace said:

Ghat’s “Self Professed” Imagination


Please tell the forum or provide a link showing who these “self professed ‘chosen people'” are. I’d really like to know. Is it Shai and Yossi?

May 29th, 2010, 9:45 pm


annie said:

For those who understand French this is a very interesting interview with a doctor who goes yearly to Gaza

another view

May 29th, 2010, 10:01 pm


SimoHurtta said:

Amir (now) in Tel Aviv it is non-intellectual even indirectly to claim that the Palestinians and Arabs resist Israeli (=Jewish) occupation and (successful) military domination simply because of their religion. Even if Palestinians were Hindus or Scientology followers they would resit cruel Jewish occupation and economical slavery using the same methods than they have done. If Palestinians majority religion would be Christianity they would most probably be even less compromise seeking than they are now.

It only happens that the majority religion on Palestinian side is Islam, but the need for the resistance is not in their religion. IT IS IN YOUR religion and your behaviour. The Jewish side has rather successfully managed to hide the role of the religion on their side by pretending to be a normal ethnic tribe/nation and mostly atheists. However it is clear that Jews are simply followers of Judaism and so as much a nation than Christians or followers of Scientology are. What makes Lieberman a Jew? Simply and only his religion.

One thing is certain Amir. If your “bearded men using those funny hats” continue like this, you will after some decades be known as Amir in Paris Texas or Amir in Krakow. The more fascistic methods Israel uses to “control” the opinions abroad and internally the harder it is to hide your religion’s leading role in the ongoing tragedy.

May 29th, 2010, 10:16 pm


Ghat Albird said:


Ghat’s “Self Professed” Imagination


Please tell the forum or provide a link showing who these “self professed ‘chosen people’” are. I’d really like to know. Is it Shai and Yossi?


May 29th, 2010, 10:19 pm


Amir in Tel Aviv said:

[deleted by admin]

May 29th, 2010, 6:41 pm


why-discuss said:


What do you expect? Most Israelis live in a state of denial, that let them accept the unacceptable, make them loose the sense of justice and humanity and close them on themselves. It is so sad that having escaped the ghettos, the persecution by the europeans and the nazi camps, they have become trapped in a circle of violence and prisoners in a stolen land surrounded by walls and by the hatred they have provoked in denying the rights of the legitimate owners of that land whom, after several wars, they were unable to eradicate.

May 29th, 2010, 11:00 pm


Akbar Palace said:

Syria Comment grows on you


Not sure who Emir Said is. Anyway, can you post a link showing that these people “Avig” and “Boom Boom” “professed” to be “chosen people”?

Or was this just something you imagined?

Most Israelis live in a state of denial

Why Discuss,

Since you seem to be knowledgeable about the subject, please outline for us what Israelis are in “denial” about? Maybe you can give us a list.

May 29th, 2010, 11:01 pm


majedkhaldoun said:

What makes Liberman and the ilks zionist. the answer is their stupid ideas.

The flotilla is very important news it will embarrasse Israel,and show the whole world how bad Israel is.we will watch it closely,there will be videos and pictures will witness the event,journalists and other important people will witness the event,

May 29th, 2010, 11:13 pm


Ghat Albird said:


As noted in President Harry S. Truman writings and published in The Washington Post Friday, July 17, 2003 (googled) :-

“The Jews, I find, are very, very selfish. They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as D[isplaced] P[ersons] as long as the Jews get special treatment.

Yet when they have power, physical, financial or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog.

And this is from a man that as President supported Israel.

May 29th, 2010, 11:39 pm


majedkhaldoun said:

The attempt to break the seige on Gaza,is a blow to Husni Mubarak,as it is a blow to israel image

May 30th, 2010, 12:46 am


why-discuss said:


Israel is a democracy, we practice justice, the world respects us, the Arabs are an inferior race, they have a low standard of living compared to us, the palestinians are a nuisance, we are an advanced society, our army is great and powerful, our leaders are smart, we have build a solid economy because we are intelligent, people admire our booming economy, we are a miracle, arab hates us because they envy us, the land of Palestine belongs to no one but us, we are powerful enough to always dominate the arabs and infuence the western countries etc…

That’s only part of what I think you believe and the reality is something totally different.
Anyway I know it is useless to tell you that, as in the state of denial in which you live, you will always find something to reply that will reassure you in your closed-circuit beliefs.

May 30th, 2010, 4:10 am


almasri said:

رفضت إسرائيل بيان المؤتمر الدولي لمراجعة معاهدة منع الانتشار النووي في نيويورك الذي دعاها بالاسم إلى توقيع المعاهدة وإخضاع منشآتها النووية لتفتيش الأمم المتحدة، ووصفته بأنه معيب وزائف.

وقالت الحكومة الإسرائيلية في بيان عبر البريد الإلكتروني إن “إسرائيل بوصفها دولة غير موقعة على معاهدة منع انتشار الأسلحة فإنها غير ملزمة بقرارات المؤتمر الذي لا يملك سلطة عليها”.

May 30th, 2010, 4:51 am


annie said:

I have stopped coming here because I have the unease feeling of being in a Mossad den. I see that the hasbara “de service” is still at his beat a little like the doorman.
I have just chosen to ignore him.

As for Truman “Yet when they have power, physical, financial or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog.” True in the case of the zionists but otherwise in Belgium and France you have courageous jews who side with Palestinians like the UPJB and the UJFP and you have similar groups in the UK and the US. They are a minority but their numbers are growing.
WHY DISCUSS : their delusion is believing you can have democratic colonialism.
MAJEDKHALDOUN hasbara Egypt coming to the rescue of its “allies, masters?” a clip on Al Jazeera English
To all, if you want to watch Free Gaza life (until Israel fuddles its communications)

May 30th, 2010, 5:02 am


annie said:

I do not know if many of us have really read the Bloomberg interview with Mishaal, but his proposals are not new. Hamas has always been misrepresented. And I do not see any victory for Israel.

Meshaal’s conditions are also unacceptable for Israel who wants peace on its own terms; an Arab less country with Palestinians parked on some barren remote hills. Forget about the borders of 1967; they don’t exist for the occupier.

May 30th, 2010, 8:47 am


norman said:

This sums it up ,

The Peoples Voice @
The Biggest Threat to Peace in Middle East
05:44:54 am
By Dr. Elias Akleh

A build up of heightened tension in the Middle East is escalating in the last few weeks. American and Israeli postures towards Lebanon, Syria, and Iran have become more threatening. Listening to speeches of political leaders one hears talks only about war not peace. Iranians and Israelis are continuously training hard for a possible showdown. Both sides are conducting extensive war games every month. This led Syrians to claim that Israel is preparing for a soon-to-come another war. The Jordanians also are warning that current stalemate of the peace process is an indication of a war breaking this summer. The Russian President and his army chief hinted, few months ago, that the US and Israel were planning for an attack on Iran.

Indeed Iran is, as it has been for last few years, the target of most of the threats and accusation of supporting terrorism. Escalating incitement against Iran the American Defense Department sent Last month (April) to Congress a report on Iran’s military claiming Iran could develop intercontinental ballistic missile capable of reaching the US by 2015.

Ignoring the fact that N. Korea, India, Pakistan, and Israel are proven to have nuclear weapons while Iran does not, the US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton chose in her speech, to the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty review conference at the UN, to focus on Iran’s alleged nuclear ambitions putting the whole world at risk as she put it. According to Clinton Iran’s acquisition of nuclear weapons, rather than Israel’s more than 200 nuclear bombs, is destabilizing the Middle East. She called on world’s nations to rally around US efforts to hold Iran, not other nuclear countries, to account.

Accusation that Usama Bin Laden is living comfortably in Iran had received a boost after the broadcast of a documentary called “Feathered Cocaine”. This echoed the June 2003 claims of the Italian newspaper Corre de la Sierra that Bin Laden was in Iran according to some intelligence report, and according to Richard Miniter’s book “Shadow War”. This accusation was countered by Ahmadinejad in ABC News interview with George Stephanopoulos stating that, since Bin Laden was a previous partner of Mr. Bush, he is living comfortably in Washington DC not in Tehran. It was also widely reported that one of Bin Laden’s wives was living in Tehran with six of his children and eleven grandchildren.

A recent Associated Press exclusive, May 13th, written by Adam Goldman and Matt Apuzzo, reported that according to CIA monitoring program RIGOR Saad, the son of Usama Bin laden and many Al-Qaeda leaders and operative had taken refuge into Iran after 911. This exclusive disqualifies itself stating that “But generally, the U.S. has only limited information about them.”, and “Details are murky”.

The American military capitalized on such rumors when the commander of US forces in the Middle East, general Petraeus, told Congress that Tehran is working with Al-Qaeda facilitating links between its senior leaders and affiliate groups.

Syria, in turn, was not spared from American and Israeli warnings and threats. Syria was accused of violating 2006 UN Resolution 1701 prohibiting the transfer of weapons to Lebanese Hezbollah. Just before the US Congress approves sending Robert Stephen Ford as American ambassador to Syria as a sign of improving relationships, the Israeli President, Shimon Peres, accused Syria of smuggling Scud missiles to Hezbollah. Peres’ accusation prompted the Congress to suspend sending Ford to Damascus.

Major General Alberto Asarta Cuevas of the UN Interim Force in Lebanon was quoted by Lebanese daily An-Nahar as saying: “We have no evidence of any Scud missiles in UNIFIL’s area of operations.” The US, also, could not confirm any Scud missiles shipped to Lebanon. Scud missiles are large and are difficult to hide.

Although not mentioning Scud missiles in specific Israeli officials such as the head of the Israeli military intelligence research department, Brigadier General Yossi Baidatz, claimed that: “Weapons are transferred to Hezbollah on a regular basis and this transfer is organized by the Syrian and Iranian regimes.” Syria was accused of transferring sophisticated weapons, such as M600 rockets, to Hezbollah. Israel’s Foreign Minister, Avigdor Lieberman, accused Syria of importing weapons of mass destruction from North Korea to ship them to Hezbollah and Hamas.

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak directly warned both Syria and Lebanon: “We make it clear once again that we see the government of Lebanon, and behind it the government of Syria, responsible for what happens now in Lebanon, And the government of Lebanon will be the one to be held accountable if it deteriorates.”

The Americans parroted the Israeli claims. Hillary Clinton warned Syria of grave consequences of delivering weapons to Hezbollah and Hamas warning that such an act “could mean war or peace for the region … Hezbollah’s acquisition of new weapons, especially long-range missiles, would threaten Israel’s security and destabilize the region.”

Robert Gates, the American Defense Secretary, had also accused both Iran and Syria of arming Hezbollah with sophisticated weaponry. Finally, citing what the White House alleged Syria’s “extraordinary threat” to US security and foreign policy, Barack Obama decided to renew economic sanctions against Syria for another year. Obama said that Syria’s “continuing support of terrorist organizations and pursuit of weapons of mass destruction and missile programs, continue to pose an unusual and extraordinary threat to the national security, foreign policy, and economy of the US”.

Israel’s fear was heightened by the visit of Russian President, Dmitry Medvedev, to Syria, the first visit to Damascus by Russian ruler since 1917, to sign an arm trade agreement by which Russia would supply Syria with Mig-29 fighters, truck-mounted Pantzir short range surface to air missiles, and anti-aircraft artillery system. Building a Syrian nuclear power plant with Russian help was also discussed by the two leaders.

Turkey’s improved relationships with Iran, Syria, and Lebanon, and its sympathy towards Palestinians worry the US and Israel the most. Since Davos incident in January 2009 between Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and Israel’s president Shimon Peres, Turkey seems to adopt the Palestinian cause. Turkey had sent humanitarian aid to besieged Gaza within “Viva Palestina” and “Break the Siege” campaigns, and is also sending three humanitarian ships to Gaza within the “Freedom Flotilla” campaign.

Turkey and Syria had dramatically improved their political, economic, socio-cultural, and military relationships. The two countries conducted, last April 2009, a three-day military exercise along their borders and signed a technical military cooperation agreement to strengthen collaboration between their defense industries.

Turkey had improved relationship with Iran, where trade between the two countries is expected to increase to $30 billion. Turkey had opposed economical sanctions against Iran, had repeatedly played down the alleged threat of Iran’s nuclear program, and defended Iran’s right to peaceful nuclear energy. This month, May 2010, Turkey and Brazil convinced Iran to accept nuclear fuel swap on Turkish soil.

Turkey seems determined to protect its good relationships with Syria and Iran to a point of deploying anti-aircraft batteries along the Syrian border in the Iskenderun district to repel any US or Israeli aerial attack against Iran or Syria, according to Turkish daily Hurriyet. In a phone call with Al-Manar TV, Mustafa Ozcan, a Turkish political analyst, confirmed this fact.

A Middle Eastern geopolitical alliance between Turkey, Iran, and Syria and Lebanon seems to take shape. This alliance seems to provide a counterbalance for Israel’s military superiority in the region, and a deterrent to any further Israeli terrorist attack against Gaza, Lebanon, or Syria. Israelis are afraid that they may not be able to win a war as convincingly and with impunity as they used to do, especially after their failures in 2006 Lebanese war and 2008 Gaza onslaught. Israel’s whining about Iran’s and Syria’s weapons is meant to portray the Israelis as the poor victims, and to justify any Israeli aggression against its neighbors. It is meant also to draw in the US for its rescue, as usual. Israel wants a joint American/Israel attack against Iran/Syria/Hezbollah axis before their alliance become any stronger. American involvement is the wild card, as it always has been, that will maintain Israel’s superiority in the region.

While supplying Israel with weapons allegedly for self defense the US denies this right to Palestinians, Lebanese, and Syrians. Coming to Israel’s rescue, again, the US described Iran as the greatest threat to America, to its allies, to the Middle East, and to world peace by claiming that Iran is the region’s greatest proliferator of weapons and supporter to terrorist groups.

Obama cited the possibility of nuclear Iran supplying nuclear material to some terrorist groups to be used against the US and its allies. The documented facts proved that the US is the only nuclear country that had secretly supplied nuclear material to terrorist Israel to build its nuclear bombs.

In his article “America’s Loose Nukes in Israel”, Grant Smith, director of the Institute for Research: Middle Eastern Policy, explains how large quantities of America’s highly enriched uranium and plutonium was smuggles to Israel via the Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corporation (NUMEC), part of Apollo Steel Company plant in Pennsylvania. A 1965 audit by Atomic Energy Commission discovered the shortage of 220 pounds of enriched uranium, and in September 1968 587 more pounds of enriched uranium went missing immediately after the visit of 4 Israelis, including Mossad agent Rafi Eitan. Also refer to the 1978 declassified report “Nuclear Diversion in the U.S.? 13 Years of Contradiction and Confusion” regarding the investigation between 1957 and 1967 of the loss of highly enriched uranium in NUMEC.

Whistleblower former FBI translator Sibel Edmonds testified that Richard Perle, Doughlas Feith, and Marc Grossman, high ranking officials in G.W. Bush administration, were passing sensitive data and nuclear technology to Israel’s military industrial complex.

Based on 30 declassified government documents from the National Security Archive in April 2006 Avner Cohen and William Burr published the article “Israel Crosses the Threshold” in the May-June 2006 issue of the “Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists” indicating that the Nixon’s administration decided to accept and to live with Israel’s ambiguity of its nuclear weapons program, knowing very well that Israel had already built nuclear bombs.

At the Global Summit on Nuclear Security, last April, the US tried to rally nations against Iran’s nuclear program, and supported the call for Middle East nuclear-free zone. Yet the US supported Israel’s claim that it would consider signing the NPT and supporting such a nuclear-free zone only if there is a comprehensive Middle East peace.

The US, with 5,113 self-declared nuclear bombs and free of any IAEA monitoring process, is trying to use the NPT to monopolize nuclear technology and deny it to other countries. After signing the START Treaty on April 8th President Obama called for $80 billion in nuclear funding to modernize the US nuclear weapons complex to meet the need to “rebuild and sustain America’s aging nuclear stockpile”. This means making the bombs smarter, smaller in size, and more powerful. This $80 billion came on top of more than the additional $100 billion for nuclear deliver systems like submarines. The US has no intention of reducing its nukes, but to improve them.

War clouds are looming over the Middle Easter. Israeli military officials keep threatening to attack Iran claiming they can use military force to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Israel is primed to attack Iran boosted Deputy Prime Minister Moshe Yaalon. Iran is taking these threats seriously and is preparing for war through war games; two of them this month. Iran’s strongest warning to Israel came Wednesday May 19 from Iranian Chief of Staff, Esfandiar Rahim Mashaei, stating that if Israel attacked Iran it would be destroyed within a week. Sunday May 23 Israel is conducting its most intensive and comprehensive war games called “Turning Point-4” lasting five days and including 68 cities and towns. Could this be preparation for another war this summer?

During its short 62 years history Israel had fought 8 wars against its Arab neighbors. It had developed nuclear weapons and did not sign the NPT. It had used chemical and nuclear (DU) weapons against civilians. It violated many UN resolutions. It committed war crimes and many massacres against civilians. It had refused all Arab peaceful gestures and keeps threatening to attack its neighbors. It occupation and destruction of religious sites, especially Islamic, might provoke religious war in the region. Israel is the biggest threat to peace in the Middle East.


By Dr. Elias Akleh


May 30th, 2010, 1:54 pm


Akbar Palace said:


You didn’t show quote of a “self professed” person with the name “Avig” and “Boom Boom” who claim the were a “chosen people”, and instead posted an anti-semitic quote from Harry Truman. Why?

Denial isn’t just a stripe on the Zionist Flag;)

As a free service for the participants here on Syria Comment, Why-Discuss outlines what he thinks “most Israelis live in a state of denial” about (I’ve numbered the entries):

1.) Israel is a democracy

2.) we [Israel] practice justice

3.) the world respects us [Israel]

4.) the Arabs are an inferior race

5.) they [Arabs] have a low standard of living compared to us

6.) the palestinians are a nuisance

7.) we [Israel] are an advanced society

8.) our [Israeli] army is great and powerful

9.) our [Israeli] leaders are smart

10.)we [Israel] have build a solid economy because we are intelligent

11.)people admire our [Israel’s] booming economy

12.)we [Israel] are a miracle

13.)arab hates us because they envy us

14.)the land of Palestine belongs to no one but us [Israel]

15.)we [Israel] are powerful enough to always dominate the arabs and infuence the western countries etc…

That’s only part of what I think you believe and the reality is something totally different.

Anyway I know it is useless to tell you that, as in the state of denial in which you live, you will always find something to reply that will reassure you in your closed-circuit beliefs.


Thank you for taking the time to outline what you think Israeli’s are in denial about. If you want to add/subtract/edit from that list feel free.

Also, would it be asking too much for you to do the same for the Arabs, or do you think the Arabs are NOT in denial of anything?

After your reply, I would be delighted to respond.


May 30th, 2010, 2:02 pm


Ghat Albird said:


Ghat, “instead (YOU) posted an anti-semitic quote from Harry Truman. Why?”


“One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.\” —Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994

May 30th, 2010, 3:11 pm


why-discuss said:


As I thought, what you write shows an increased and dangerous level of anxiety and near hysteria … Maybe it is time for you to visit a Israelis mental health help website instead of visiting SC.

May 30th, 2010, 4:22 pm


almasri said:

“Maybe it is time for you to visit a Israelis mental health help website instead of visiting SC.”

They’re full and suffering from a shortage of qualified staff. That’s why they come here. SC may soon have to implement a quarantine procedure for the more severe cases.

May 30th, 2010, 4:43 pm


norman said:

Will the presure last , I doubt it,

US reassured Netanyahu ahead of NPT deal: Israeli official
(AFP) – 5 hours ago

TORONTO — Israel’s prime minister was given “unequivocal assurances” from US President Barack Obama that a UN accord agreeing to talks on a nuclear weapons-free Mideast would not endanger the Jewish state, a senior Israeli official said Sunday.

“Two weeks ago, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu received unequivocal assurances that included significant upgrade of Israel’s strategic and deterrent capabilities in a personal message conveyed by President Obama,” the official said in a statement in Toronto, where Netanyahu was on a visit.

The premier was “promised that there would be no resolutions adopted at the UN that would hurt the vital interests of Israel,” the official added, referring to Friday’s landmark agreement reached by the members of the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) that singles out Israel and seeks a 2012 conference on establishing a Middle East zone free of nuclear weapons.

The document calls on Israel to join the NPT and urges it to open its facilities to inspection, but makes no mention of Iran’s controversial nuclear program.

Sunday’s statement could be seen as an Israeli government effort to downplay the surprise, worry and outrage back home over the NPT agreement ahead of Netanyahu-Obama talks scheduled for Tuesday at the White House.

It appeared to be tamping down any anger Israel may have with the United States for supporting the agreement despite intensive Israeli efforts to block it, and which the Jewish state on Saturday decried as “deeply flawed and hypocritical.”

Consternation over the resolution has welled up in Israel, where the top-selling Yediot Aharonot daily said Netanyahu’s government was “furious with the Obama administration for having failed to prevent the resolution from passing… and for choosing to support it.”

“The American support for the resolution, after decades in which it supported Israel on this issue, came as a complete surprise,” the paper said, noting that Israel, in talks between Netanyahu and Obama aides, had been promised that the resolution would not focus on Israel.

In Sunday’s statement, the Israeli official stressed that “Netanyahu acted in the last two months to ensure that the resolution at the UN would have no practical effect on Israel.

“These efforts included continuous contact between Prime Minister Netanyahu and President Obama.”

Officials with Netanyahu have said the two leaders will discuss the accord when they meet in Washington, their first face-to-face talks since a frosty White House meeting in March which was widely viewed as an attempt to humiliate Netanyahu in the wake of a spat over settlements.

Israel is widely believed to be the only nuclear power in the Middle East, with around 200 warheads, but has maintained a policy of deliberate ambiguity about its capabilities since the mid-1960s.

Copyright © 2010 AFP. All rights reserved. More »

May 30th, 2010, 9:38 pm


Akbar Palace said:

Why-Discuss likes to point to Israeli “Denial”. But what about the Arabs (hear the pin drop)?

As I thought, what you write shows an increased and dangerous level of anxiety and near hysteria …


I’m perplexed. Where is my last post did I “show and increased and dangerous level of anxiety and near hysteria”?

Of course, I’ll be happy to respond to your 15 examples, but why didn’t you post any examples of what you think the Arabs are in denial about. Or perhaps you think the Arabs aren’t in denial of anything?

If you don’t feel comfortable answering my question that’s fine. Most of participants skip my questions because it makes them uncomfortable too. Anyway, I’ll repond later either way when I have a little more time.


“One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.” —Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994


Are only my people “allowed” to do what? Say things that are clearly racist? I don’t know who this Rabbi Yaacov Perrin is back in 1994 (and I’m certainly familiar with Rabbi Meir Kahane), but are you saying Arabs are NOT anti-semitic? Anti-semitism is RAMPANT in the Arab media. Much more so than the hebrew media. So if you want to play a game of rabbis versus imams, we can do that.
Your quotation of Harry Truman is supposed to prove what?

May 30th, 2010, 11:06 pm


majedkhaldoun said:

you keep saying Arab are antisemitic. Arabs are semitics.most semitics are Arab. This is why I say you are a deceiver,obviously you are using wrong term,why dont you use the term antizionists? at least people will respect your comments then.

May 30th, 2010, 11:27 pm


Ghat Albird said:

Following the meeting between the President of Russia and Hamas its not the US/s turn for contacts.

May 31st, 2010, 12:23 am


Akbar Palace said:

you keep saying Arab are antisemitic. Arabs are semitics.most semitics are Arab. This is why I say you are a deceiver,obviously you are using wrong term,why dont you use the term antizionists?


Not all Arabs are antisemitic, but many are, and more importantly, the arab government-controlled media is terribly anti-semitic.

I know you think I am a “deceiver”. You have been using that term for several months now. The frequency of using terms like “deceiver”, or “apartheid state”, or “racist state” doesn’t make it true.

You are correct, Jews and Arabs are semites. However, in the English language, it just so happens that the term “anti-semite” refers specifically to Jews. That is how the language evolved.

May 31st, 2010, 12:57 am


majedkhaldoun said:

HERE IN syria comment most of us are semitic,to call us antisemitic is stupid ,be honest and say antizionist.
most of your comments are deceiving,and smart people know it is true,the last person you want to deceive is you,you are deceiving a lot ,you are begining to deceive yourself
you mentioned the media can you deceive us again,and tell us why american media which is controlled by zionist like you,hardly mentioning news about the freedom flotilla?

May 31st, 2010, 1:20 am


why-discuss said:


You always reply to question by a question.. That does not seem to be a sign of a balanced and reasonable mind but more of a hysterical reaction of defense. Anyway I am not surprised as since Obama’s arrival, the level of anxiety and hysteria is growing even in your media.
Your PM went even to Canada to try get some moral support to balance the change of attitude the new US administration has toward Israel…
I think you should start to get used to the US foreign policy hypocrisy that, after decades, is now turning against Israel.

“Sunday’s statement was seen as an Israeli government effort to downplay the surprise, worry and outrage back home over the NPT agreement ahead of Netanyahu-Obama talks scheduled for Tuesday at the White House.

It appeared to be tamping down any anger Israel may have with the United States for supporting the agreement despite intensive Israeli efforts to block it.
“Consternation over the resolution has welled up in Israel, where the top-selling Yediot Aharonot daily said Netanyahu’s government was “furious with the Obama administration for having failed to prevent the resolution from passing… and for choosing to support it.”

“The American support for the resolution, after decades in which it supported Israel on this issue, came as a complete surprise,” the paper said, noting that Israel, in talks between Netanyahu and Obama aides, had been promised that the resolution would not focus on Israel.”

May 31st, 2010, 3:56 am


Shai said:


I believe what is about to happen is a twofold policy change: one that reaffirms American commitment to Israel’s security (perhaps with unusual supportive steps), and at the same time a forceful and unambiguous time-limited demand for Israel to prove her readiness for Peace. Time-limited probably to the 12 months between Nov.2010 and Nov.2011. After that, Obama will be busy with the upcoming Presidential election.

May 31st, 2010, 5:37 am


annie said:

12 dead in the pirate assault against the flotilla. and my website blocked;

May 31st, 2010, 5:41 am


annie said:

My website blocked : I am trying to publish this:

Israel attacks Gaza aid fleet

Al Jazeera’s report on board the Mavi Marmara before communications were cut

Israeli forces have attacked a flotilla of aid-carrying ships aiming to break the country’s siege on Gaza.

Up to 16 people were killed and dozens injured when troops stormed the Freedom Flotilla early on Monday, the Israeli Army Radio said.

The flotilla was attacked in international waters, 65km off the Gaza coast.

Footage from the flotilla’s lead vessel, the Mavi Marmara, showed armed Israeli soldiers boarding the ship and helicopters flying overhead.

Al Jazeera’s Jamal Elshayyal, on board the Mavi Marmara, said Israeli troops had used live ammunition during the operation.

The Israeli Army Radio said soldiers opened fire “after confronting those on board carrying sharp objects”.

Free Gaza Movement, the organisers of the flotilla, however, said the troops opened fire as soon as they stormed the ships.

They also said the ships were now being towed to the Israeli town of Haifa, instead of Ashdod to avoid waiting journalists.

Earlier, the Israeli navy had contacted the captain of the Mavi Marmara, asking him to identify himself and say where the ship was headed.

Israeli intervention

Shortly after, two Israeli naval vessels had flanked the flotilla on either side, but at a distance.

Organisers of the flotilla carrying 10,000 tonnes of humanitarian aid then diverted their ships and slowed down to avoid a confrontation during the night.

They also issued all passengers life jackets and asked them to remain below deck.

Al Jazeera’s Ayman Mohyeldin, reporting from Jerusalem, said the Israeli action was surprising.

“All the images being shown from the activists on board those ships show clearly that they were civilians and peaceful in nature, with medical supplies on board. So it will surprise many in the international community to learn what could have possibly led to this type of confrontation,” he said.

Meanwhile, Israeli police have been put on a heightened state of alert across the country to prevent any civil disturbances.


Condemnation has been quick to pour in after the Israeli action.

Thousands of Turkish protesters tried to storm the Israeli consulate in Istanbul soon after the news of the operation broke. The protesters shouted “Damn Israel” as police blocked them.

Turkey is also reported to have summoned the Israeli ambassador to lodge a protest.

“(The interception on the convoy) is unacceptable … Israel will have to endure the consequences of this behaviour,” the Turkish foreign ministry said in a statement.

Ismail Haniya, the Hamas leader in Gaza, has also dubbed the Israeli action as “barbaric”.

Hundreds of pro-Palestinian activists, including a Nobel laureate and several European legislators, were with the flotilla, aiming to reach Gaza in defiance of an Israeli embargo.

But Israel had said it would not allow the flotilla to reach the Gaza Strip and vowed to stop the six ships from reaching the coastal Palestinian territory.

The flotilla had set sail from a port in Cyprus on Sunday and aimed to reach Gaza by Monday morning.

Israel said the boats were embarking on “an act of provocation” against the Israeli military, rather than providing aid, and that it had issued warrants to prohibit their entrance to Gaza.

It asserted that the flotilla would be breaking international law by landing in Gaza, a claim the organisers rejected.

May 31st, 2010, 6:10 am


Amir in Tel Aviv said:

One positive outcome of all this.
No more “freedom” and “humanitarian” flotillas in the near future.

May 31st, 2010, 8:00 am


Ghat Albird said:

Its worth repeating and repeating and….

As noted in President Harry S. Truman writings and published in The Washington Post Friday, July 17, 2003 (googled) :-

“The Jews, I find, are very, very selfish. They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as D[isplaced] P[ersons] as long as the Jews get special treatment.

Yet when they have power, physical, financial or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog.

Put an underdog on top and it makes no difference whether his name is Russian, Jewish, Negro, Management, Labor, Mormon, Baptist he goes haywire. I’ve found very, very few who remember their past condition when pro

May 31st, 2010, 8:32 am


Joshua said:

Ghat Albird,
You have been harping on this topic — “These people are worse than Hitler and Stalin” — for weeks. I asked you before, and all commentators, not to turn this section into the mere repetition of insults and invective. It is tiring and unconstructive. There are other places to express this sort of sentiment. SC does not have to be one of them. I ask you not to comment here for a month.


May 31st, 2010, 8:57 am


Alex said:


If you could narrow down your campaign to a specific target that deserve it, no one could complain, but “Jews” is just like “Muslims” .. You are targeting a religion, Ghat.

If you want, please write me an email to discuss. check my creativesyria email (contact us)

May 31st, 2010, 9:17 am


Alex said:

“The United States deeply regrets the loss of life and injuries sustained, and is currently working to understand the circumstances surrounding this tragedy,” said White House spokesman William Burton.

United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called for a full investigation and expressed shock at Israel’s storming of the flotilla.

“It is vital that there is a full investigation to determine exactly how this bloodshed took place. I believe Israel must urgently provide a full explanation,” he said at a press conference in the Ugandan capital of Kampala.

France became the first European nation to respond to the early morning’s events. Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner said he was “profoundly shocked”.

The European Union demanded an inquiry and Germany said it was “shocked”. The United Nations condemned violence against civilians in international waters.

While the world condemns Israel’s latest crime against civilians, the US government acts stupid again … it is “currently working to understand the circumstances surrounding this tragedy”

Translation: The US government is trying hard, but did not succeed yet, to find excuses to NOT “condemn” Israel for its crimes.

Dear US government: This particular crime is not easy to blame on “circumstances surrounding” … IT IS THE FASCIST RACIST DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED ISRAELI LEADERSHIP THAT MUST BE BLAMED.

May 31st, 2010, 9:30 am


norman said:

Shai,Amir ,

I do not know how what Israel did could make people of the world like Israel and understand it’s security needs , as you can see Shai , having the Palestinians of Gaza walk to the border will just open them to slaughter , you seem to underestimate the criminal nature of the Israeli government , they do not seem to have any shame and that is something i have not seen in the seventies eighties and nineties ,
When a nation loses it’s moral fabric , nobody will be there to save it when the time comes ,

The Mideast is reaching the cliff and the Arabs and the Palestinians are not the only ones who will die,

May 31st, 2010, 9:40 am


Alex said:

Israeli killings of Gaza ship activists must be investigated – Amnesty International

Today at 9:21am


For Immediate Release

31 May 2010

Israeli killings of Gaza ship activists must be investigated

Amnesty International has called for Israel to launch an immediate credible and independent investigation into the killing by its armed forces of at least 10 activists on boats protesting the Israeli blockade on the Gaza Strip.

“Israeli forces appear clearly to have used excessive force,” said Malcolm Smart, Amnesty International’s director for the Middle East and North Africa. “Israel says its forces acted in self-defence, alleging that they were attacked by protestors, but it begs credibility that the level of lethal force used by Israeli troops could have been justified. It appears to have been out of all proportion to any threat posed.”

As a first step, Amnesty International has called on the Israeli authorities to make public immediately the rules of engagement issued to the troops who carried out this lethal attack.

“The activists on the ships made it clear that their primary purpose was to protest against the continuing Israeli blockade, which constitutes a form of collective punishment and so a breach of international law,” said Malcolm Smart.

For nearly three years Israel, which is the occupying power in the Gaza Strip, has implemented a policy of banning all movement of goods and people, except for the most basic humanitarian necessities which are imported by international aid agencies. Only a fraction of patients in need of treatment outside Gaza are allowed out, and dozens have died waiting for Israeli permission to travel.

“The blockade does not target armed groups but rather punishes Gaza’s entire population by restricting the entry of food, medical supplies, educational equipment and building materials,” said Malcolm Smart. “Unsurprisingly, its impact falls most heavily on those most vulnerable among Gaza’s 1.5 million people: children, the elderly and the sick.”

“The blockade constitutes collective punishment under international law and must be lifted immediately.”

Israel has a duty under international law to ensure the welfare of Gaza’s inhabitants, including their rights to health, education, food and adequate housing.

Public Document

For more information please call Amnesty International’s press office in London, UK, on +44 20 7413 5566 or email:

International Secretariat, Amnesty International, 1 Easton St., London WC1X 0DW, UK

May 31st, 2010, 9:42 am


majedkhaldoun said:

Israel attack on freedom flotilla,will be followed by legal actions,and council is expected to respond,this is definitely a major crime by Israel.the whole world must respond.
there will be more freedom flotillas and within few months,Israel thinks by doing what they did ,will prevent further flotillas,Israel will be disappointed.
Turkey response is expected to be more reasonable than the arab response,the official one,Al Jazeerah T.V. has done great coverage for this crime,and CNN ,Fox news and others must be shamefull for their extremely poor coverage.

May 31st, 2010, 9:44 am


Alex said:

BBC whitewashing Israeli crimes again

The BBC proves its despicable subservience to the Israeli propaganda machine once again. Before it was shamed by Al Jazeera and others into covering the Freedom Flotilla massacre, it reported the story as a mere Hamas claim. Here is how it first appeared on the BBC’s website:

BBC News – Israel intercepts Gaza flotilla, says Hamas

The Palestinian movement Hamas says the Israeli navy has intercepted a flotilla of ships carrying humanitarian aid to the Gaza strip.

The massacre soon became the top news story on Google News and Twitter. The BBC could no longer pretend that it couldn’t see. It finally reported it as a matter of fact, but appended this line: “Hamas, a militant palestinian group that controls the Gaza strip, has fired thousands of rockets into Israel over the past decade.”

The victims weren’t innocent, you see. They were on their way to aid these terrible people who fire ‘thousands of rockets into Israel’. That’s all you need to know. And if you mention those hundreds of thousands of bombs, missiles and rockets that Israel has shot into Gaza…Why, you must be an anti-Semite!

I took the risk, and sent in a complaint. I am assuming I wasn’t the only one questioning the relevance of the line to the report because it was swiftly removed. In its place, it posted a short video segment in which the reporter went out of his way to ‘stress’ that according to the Israeli military no one was killed. He then went on to excuse the killings because ‘clearly when you have as many as 600 people on board these ships, at night, in high sees, it is a very very difficult situation…and you can imagine a rather chaotic situation. Of course the Israeli military is very well experienced with dealing with crowd control’. But turns out he wasn’t entirely shameless. He did add: ’but certainly if you’ve got live fire being fired as well as tear gas canisters which is what is being reported was fired, then that is a very dangerous situation in a very crowded space’.

May 31st, 2010, 9:53 am


norman said:


I hate to say it but what Ghat was saying about Arabs not worth what Jews are is probably right in the eyes of the world , the reaction would have been much different if these ten who died were Jews , don’t you think ?.

May 31st, 2010, 10:05 am


Akbar Palace said:

Who is deceiving who?

HERE IN syria comment most of us are semitic,to call us antisemitic is stupid ,be honest and say antizionist.
most of your comments are deceiving,and smart people know it is true,the last person you want to deceive is you,you are deceiving a lot ,you are begining to deceive yourself
you mentioned the media can you deceive us again,and tell us why american media which is controlled by zionist like you,hardly mentioning news about the freedom flotilla?


Like I said, Jews and Arabs are semites. Anyone can be anti-semitic, including a Jew and/or an Arab. It is a matter of accepting an english language definition. Ask Professor Josh if you don’t trust me.

I have yet to respond to Why-Discuss’s 15 point list showing how Israelis are in “denial” (for some reason he doesn’t want to list what he thinks is “Arab denial”). IMHO, your belief that the “American media…is controlled by zionist[s]” is an example, IMHO, of how some Arabs are in denial. The US government does not censor any news, no internet site, or the thousands of radio and TV stations unless they incite hatred or use profanity.

You will be happy to know that there are many anti-Israel commentators and news outlets that daily criticise Israel and even Jews. Pat Buchanan, Ron Paul, Ralph Nadir, Cythia McKinney, Walt & Mearsheimer, the Huffington Post, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Jimmy Carter, are all Americans and news organizations who are anti-Israel to varying degree and who have been critical of Israel for years.

Unlike your claim, the following American news organizations (“controlled by Zionists”) have the flotilla as a LEAD story as of 10am EST:

Amir in Occupied Palestine:


Professor Josh,


May 31st, 2010, 10:05 am


Alex said:

And the Jerusalem Post is trying to reassure its Israeli readers that their sacred IDF did not do anything wrong:

“It was like a well-planned lynch,” one IDF officer said. “These people were anything but peace activists.”

And they picked this picture of one of those on the ship to show its readers an example of those who deserved to be killed.

As long as Israelis continue to worship the IDF, there will be no peace. The IK(illing)F is a criminal force that kills civilians … that’s what they are.

May 31st, 2010, 10:07 am


almasri said:

Dear Joshua & Alex,

I wonder if you guys realize that you seem to be selective in your moderation of this website. Of course, Joshua has the right to ban any commentator for a month or more being the host and even for no valid reasons. But rules are rules. So, Ghat has been making repetitive statements. Alright, that is tiring to SC. But other people have made insults to a religion (comment #5 above) as I pointed out in the comments 6 and 9 above and asked you to kindly remove the comment. No action was taken by SC!

The same person in comment 40 expressed glee and approval over the fresh killing of 19 innocent civilians on high seas in a pirate attack by the same people who Ghat describes as worse than Stalin and Hitler which could mean that Ghat may not be far off the truth after all. Please, excuse the tiring repetition.

Yet NO ACTION has been taken by SC against this Stalin- and Hitler-like person! Why? Again, please execuse the tiring repetition.

May 31st, 2010, 10:14 am


Alex said:


I was away the past few days and did not see that comment (#5). I just deleted it. As for Ghat, repetition and targeting a religion are both against the rules of SC. You can tell Amir that he is a racist based on his expressed opinions, you can criticize the 94% of Israelis who supported Gaza, but stay away from “Jews” if you don’t mind.


Of course I agree.


It is not total “control”, you are right, but there is a serious bias for Israel .. enough to distort reality in the minds of western viewers and readers.

Read above how the BBC tried so hard to not criticize Israel at first.

These journalists are helping Israel commit the next crime without much guilt … If the BBC says that it’s OK, since this ship was helping those Hamas terrorists who were attacking Israeli civilians with missiles … then why wouldn’t an Israeli feel the same “it was justified”?

May 31st, 2010, 10:21 am


why-discuss said:


I agree with you. During next 12 months Israel should expect more and more criticisms and warning from the international community ( including the US) together with more ‘defense’ funds and reassuring statememts about its security. Israel’s official concern is its defence, they will get that, but not the freedom to do any preventive acts of violences..
This is a disguised indirect pressure the US is doing now as I mentioned it before. The US is using any proxy it can to put pressure on Israel without getting the blame from the US jewish lobby and the Congress. I think it is a smart policy, yet we don’t know how this is going to be accepted by Israelis.
I worry that hysteria and excessive violence (as the flotilla killings) would be the answer by the present Israeli governement and probably by many Israelis who suddenly feel they are loosing the upper hand on the game and feel vulnerable and dumped much more than they have ever been as old friends like Turkey is turning against them and the US ‘betraying’ them. A feeling I guess, most jews don’t accept easily after having lived the holocaust.
Maybe this painful wake up call is what Israelis needs to start to see where, beyond achieving their security needs, they have allowed greed and inhumanity to blind them.

May 31st, 2010, 10:23 am


Alex said:

you can watch here

Watch live streaming video from insaniyardim at

May 31st, 2010, 10:33 am


Ghat Albird said:

Editor’s Comment:

Ghat Albird,
You have been harping on this topic — “These people are worse than Hitler and Stalin” — for weeks. I asked you before, and all commentators, not to turn this section into the mere repetition of insults and invective. It is tiring and unconstructive. There are other places to express this sort of sentiment. SC does not have to be one of them. I ask you not to comment here for a month.


Original comment by Ghat Albird


Sad and disgusting turn of events.

Harry Truman had it right. These people are worse than Hitler and Stalin.

What goes around comes around the saying goes in the US south.

They also deserve what ever reactions happen to them.

America’s only democratic ally in the world disgusting.

May 31st, 2010, 10:41 am


Akbar Palace said:


Of course American news agencies are more sympathetic to Israel than say the BBC or Al Jazeera. Ultimately, news organizations tend to resemble the population they report to.

Without even reading it, I believe your description of the BBC’s error in reporting the confrontation off Gaza. CAMERA has documented many errors from the BBC in the past.

Anyway, you have probably deduced my response from today’s “publicity stunt”. I’ll give you my “zionist controlled” opinion:

1.) I saw the news that 10 were killed on my Yahoo homepage. I was shocked. I didn’t expect a violent confrontation.

2.) I clicked on the “zionist controlled” AP article and read more details and clicked on some of the recorded video.

3.) I formed my “zionist controlled” opinion, which, of course, is that what Israel did was ENTIRELY legal.

4.) Read the list of usual anti-Israel comments from the “leaders” around the world.

5.) I wondered to myself what “explanation” would satisfy UN General Secretary Ban when he condemned the deaths of the activists and called for a “thorough” investigation. “Israel must provide an explanation,” he said. He probably won’t even read it.

All-in-all, I give the advantage to the pro-Palestinians on this one. Makes a great news story and brings to focus the plight of the Palestinians just like the takeover of the Olympic Village in 72. Of course, if the IDF has better video footage (showing soldiers being beaten by “peaceful” armed activists), that could change.

May 31st, 2010, 10:50 am


Alex said:


Read the Amnesty International reaction I posted and tell me again how this is ENTIRELY legal.

May 31st, 2010, 11:10 am


Akbar Palace said:


I agree with AI that there should be an investigation. Perhaps the IDF used “excessive force”, or perhaps they didn’t. It is not beyond belief that the “protestors” could have threatened the soldiers with bodily harm.

Right now, no one has clear knowledge or understanding of what transpired. All those, like you and I, who already have their mind made up, well…

AI, did not claim the flotilla confrontation was illegal. The are claiming the blockade of Gaza is illegal.

Recall, BOTH Egypt and Israel have a blockade of Gaza, and the Israelis claim it is legal:

May 31st, 2010, 11:39 am


Alex said:


Investigations are great, but we don’t have to wait for them to realize that Israel engages in disproportionate killing as a state strategy … your friends who lead Israel already told us that they like to do that, and think it is really smart and cool and it helps keep Israel secure …

Here is how the mood is changing in France

Israël, l’impunité jusqu’à quand ?

lundi 31 mai 2010, par Alain Gresh

L’assaut donné le 31 mai à l’aube par l’armée israélienne contre la flottille de bateaux transportant une aide humanitaire à Gaza aurait fait une vingtaine de morts. Cette attaque s’est déroulée dans les eaux internationales. Elle a suscité de nombreuses condamnations, y compris de pays européens et du gouvernement français. Bernard Kouchner a déclaré que « rien ne saurait justifier l’emploi d’une telle violence, que nous condamnons ». Plusieurs pays, dont la Suède, l’Espagne, la Turquie et la France ont convoqué l’ambassadeur israélien. La Grèce a suspendu des manœuvres aériennes avec Israël et annulé une visite du chef de l’armée de l’air israélienne.

Bien sûr, ces condamnations sont les bienvenues. Même s’il reste quelques personnes qui osent trouver des justifications à l’action israélienne. Ainsi, le porte-parole de l’UMP, l’ineffable Frédéric Lefebvre, a fait savoir, selon l’AFP, que son parti « regrette » les morts, mais dénonce les « provocations » de « ceux qui se disent les amis des Palestiniens ».

La veille de cette action militaire, faisant preuve d’une préscience qui fait partie de ses innombrables qualités, Bernard-Henri Lévy, déclarait à Tel-Aviv : « Je n’ai jamais vu une armée aussi démocratique, qui se pose tellement de questions morales. » (, 31 mai). Il est vrai que, lors de la guerre de Gaza, notre philosophe s’était pavané sur un char israélien pour entrer dans le territoire. Réagissant à l’attaque aujourd’hui, Lévy l’a qualifiée, selon l’AFP, de « stupide » car risquant de ternir l’image d’Israël. Pas un mot de condamnation, pas un mot de regret pour les tués…

La seule question qui se pose maintenant est de savoir quel prix le gouvernement israélien devra payer pour ce crime. Car, depuis des années, les Nations unies ont adopté des dizaines de résolutions (« Résolutions de l’ONU non respectées par Israël », Le Monde diplomatique, février 2009), l’Union européenne a voté d’innombrables textes, qui demandent à Israël de se conformer au droit international ou, tout simplement au droit humanitaire, en levant, par exemple, le blocus de Gaza. Ces textes ne sont jamais suivi du moindre effet. Au contraire, l’Union européenne et les Etats-Unis récompensent Israël.

C’est ce qu’a prouvé l’admission d’Israël dans l’Organisation pour la coopération et le développement économiques (OCDE), la semaine dernière, et la visite en France du premier ministre israélien Nétanyahou pour assister à l’intronisation de son pays. Comme le précisait un communiqué de l’Association France-Palestine Solidarité (AFPS) du 30 avril, « Israël à l’OCDE ? Un mauvais coup contre la paix ! », cette adhésion valait acceptation de l’inclusion de la Cisjordanie et du Golan dans le « périmètre » israélien. Le fait qu’Israël se permette quelques jours plus tard d’attaquer la flottille de la paix confirme que cet Etat voit dans ces bonnes manières un feu vert pour toutes ses actions.

Cela avait déjà été le cas en décembre 2008. C’était alors l’Union européenne qui avait décidé le « rehaussement » des relations bilatérales avec Israël, donnant à cet Etat des privilèges dont ne disposaient jusque-là que quelques grandes puissances. Les chars israéliens pouvaient quelques jours plus tard partir à l’assaut du territoire de Gaza et commettre, en toute impunité, des « crimes de guerre », voire des « crimes contre l’humanité ».

Richard Falk, envoyé spécial des Nations unies pour les territoires occupés, écrivait, dans Le Monde diplomatique (mars 2009) un texte intitulé : « Nécessaire inculpation des responsables de l’agression contre Gaza ». Quelques mois plus tard, la commission des Nations unies présidée par le juge sud-africain Richard Goldstone, remettait ses conclusions. Elles étaient accablantes pour Israël, même si elles n’épargnaient pas le Hamas. Le texte confirmait que c’était bien l’armée israélienne qui avait rompu le cessez-le-feu et mettait en lumière les crimes commis. Ce texte confirmait de nombreux rapports déjà publiés par Amnesty International et Human Rights Watch.

Ces textes n’ont débouché sur aucune sanction contre le gouvernement israélien. Un des arguments avancé pour justifier cette passivité est que les faits incriminés seraient l’objet d’enquêtes sérieuses en Israël, ce que dément de manière argumentée la juriste Sharon Weill, dans Le Monde diplomatique (septembre 2009) : « De Gaza à Madrid, l’assassinat ciblé de Salah Shehadeh ».

On assiste d’ailleurs en Israël à une offensive sans précédent contre les organisations de défense des droits humains, qu’elles soient internationales ou israéliennes, considérées désormais comme une menace stratégique pour l’Etat, juste après la menace de l’Iran, du Hamas et du Hezbollah. Une véritable entreprise de déligitimation se déploie contre ces organisation à travers des groupes soutenus par le gouvernement et l’extrême droite comme NGO Monitor, menée parallèlement à une guerre de propagande pour justifier l’injustifiable (lire Dominique Vidal, « Plus le mensonge est gros… », Le Monde diplomatique, février 2009). Est-il vraiment étonnant que des soldats israéliens considèrent les militants venus apporter du ravitaillement à Gaza comme des « terroristes » et les traitent comme tels ?

L’impunité durera-t-elle ou certains gouvernements oseront-ils prendre des mesures concrètes pour sanctionner Israël, pour faire comprendre à son gouvernement (et aussi à son peuple) que cette politique a un prix, que la répression a un prix, que l’occupation a un prix ?

Dans le cadre de l’Union européenne, Paris pourrait suggérer à ses partenaires de suspendre l’accord d’association en vertu de l’article 2, qui affirme explicitement qu’Israël doit protéger les droits humains (lire Isabelle Avran, « Atermoiements de l’Union européenne face à Israël », La valise diplomatique, 25 juin 2009).

La France pourrait déjà, seule, sans attendre l’accord de ses partenaires européens prendre trois mesures :

– D’abord, et ce serait seulement se conformer au droit et aux décisions de l’Union européenne, lancer une campagne pour tracer l’origine des produits israéliens exportés en France et interdire (pas seulement taxer) les produits des colonies ;

– ensuite, affirmer que l’installation de colons dans les territoires occupés n’est pas acceptable et que ceux-ci devraient donc être soumis à une demande de visa s’ils désirent se rendre en France, une mesure facile à mettre en œuvre à partir des adresses des individus désirant visiter notre pays ;

– enfin, proclamer que des citoyens français qui effectuent leur service militaire en Israël ne sont pas autorisés à servir dans les territoires occupés. Leur participation aux actions d’une armée d’occupation pourrait entraîner des poursuites judiciaires.

Bernard Kouchner a annoncé qu’il n’y avait pas de citoyens français parmi les personnes tuées sur les bateaux. Mais sait-il s’il y a des citoyens français parmi ceux qui sont responsables de ce crime ?

May 31st, 2010, 12:08 pm


Akbar Palace said:


Je ne comprend pas. However, the question is the “disproportionate use of force”. I never understood this term. Does that mean Israeli soldiers have to use slingshots with marbles or metal pipes? You may have enough information to render a jusgement. I don’t.

And will this help the Palestinians in any way? I doubt it. The best thing the Palestinians can do is to negotiate with the “Apartheid State” instead of trying to attack her.

May 31st, 2010, 12:23 pm


Amir in Tel Aviv said:

An average of 100 Muslims (mainly Arabs) are being slaughtered every single day, by their brothers. I don’t see any protestation of anger about those daily atrocities. I regret the lost of life.

You know by now what I feel about moderation.
The Treaty of Hudaybiyyah, and the battle between Muslim Arabs and the Jewish tribe of Khaybar, are Koranic stories. I can’t understand why referring to those events, is racist.

If they claim that they are people of “humanitarian” cause, they shouldn’t act like this:
Even if they hate so very much. This doesn’t feel like “humanitarian”.

May 31st, 2010, 12:36 pm


almasri said:

This is just another proof that thugs unlike real nations are incapable of comprehending the concepts of war and peace that can only be implemented among real nations. We have a band of thugs who gather from all corners of earth to claim a zionist enclave depriving its people of their homes and livelihoods. These thugs, in honest display of their true criminal characters, committed an act of piracy against the international community. According to this video the zionist pirates attacked the boats in international waters,

More importantly: do thugs even have the right to intercept the boats in the Gaza waters?

How can any sane person call thugs by names such as IDF or the like which would imply respect to them?!

What will the Arab governments do now? Would this incident convince these governments that they are dealing with a band of thugs that does not understand what war and peace are?

Guys, you’re dealing with a criminal entity. You should be reviewing criminal law which is the proper avenue for dealing with criminals.

May 31st, 2010, 12:37 pm


Alex said:


This post starts with an interview in which Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal says that Hamas would end its resistance if Israel retreated to the 1967 borders before the Six Day War and ended the occupation of Palestinian lands.

Anyway, I think before this year is over many things will change. It will probably get worse before it gets better

Israel’s relations with Turkey (government and people) will continue to deteriorate

Turkish PM calls Israeli raid on Gaza flotilla ‘state terror’

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan on Monday accused Israel of committing “inhuman state terror” with its deadly raid on a fleet of aid ships bound for Gaza.

“It should be known that we will not stay silent and unresponsive in the face of this inhuman state terror,” Erdoğan said in live televised remarks ahead of his departure from Chile to Turkey, cutting short a Latin American tour.

“International law has been trampled underfoot,” he added.

Erdoğan also called for a meeting of NATO ambassadors, who will hold emergency talks Tuesday, spokesman James Appathurai said.

Turkish Chief of General Staff Gen. Ilker Başbuğ told his Israeli counterpart in a telephone conversation Monday that the deadly raid on the Gaza-bound aid fleet was “grave and unacceptable,” the Turkish military said in a statement.

May 31st, 2010, 12:59 pm


Akbar Palace said:

“More Denial: This time, “Peace Activists”

Apparently Turkish channel NTV shows what the “peace activists” were up to:

Pictures of activists with sticks bludgeoning an Israeli soldier as he tried to land on a boat from a helicopter were shown by Turkish channel NTV.


Thank you for the IDF video you linked to from youtube above. With this information, if I were PM, I would NOT carry out an investigation, as the videos are clear enough.

If I were the PM, I would summons any ambassador from a country that has already judged Israel negatively, and request an apology.

Alex said:

This post starts with an interview in which Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal says that Hamas would end its resistance if Israel retreated to the 1967 borders before the Six Day War and ended the occupation of Palestinian lands.

Although Hamas refuses to negotiate with the cancerous Zionist entity, do you think he’ll permit Israel to regain control over part of the Old City of Jerusalem, the Jewish Quarter and parts of the West Bank (in exchange for land inside Israel)?

If not, he may have to continue his holy fight against the Zionist aggressors.

May 31st, 2010, 1:06 pm


almasri said:

For those who do not know:

The Treaty of Hudaybiyya took place in 628 AD between the State of Medina and the Quraishi tribe of Mecca. The Jews had nothing to do with this treaty.

The Jews were banned from the State of Medina and later on from all of Arabia due to their constant breach of their obligations to the State of Medina under well documented incidents.

Instead of fullfilling their obligations, the Jews of Medina sided with the enemies on every occasion there was a conflict.

Considering their behaviour, banishing them from Arabia was the most logical approach as they were intruders in the first place exactly as they are now in Palestine under zionism.

May 31st, 2010, 1:08 pm


majedkhaldoun said:

Alex said
Investigations are great, but we don’t have to wait for them to realize that Israel engages in disproportionate killing as a state strategy

I hope another freedom flotilla will be arranged soon

A.P. said Israel action was legal
Akpar it is too early,not doing investigation,and not allowing the activists to talk,to claim it is legal,all the evidence shows it is illigal

May 31st, 2010, 1:32 pm


Alex said:


“Pictures of activists with sticks bludgeoning an Israeli soldier as he tried to land on a boat from a helicopter were shown by Turkish channel NTV.”

Tell me something, when Israeli soldiers were dealing with sticks or other similar tools from Jewish protesters or settlers … did they shoot tens of them?

If they did kill that many Jews … would you say “if I were PM, I would NOT carry out an investigation”?

You are reasonable enough to support a land for peace settlement, but there is this unbelievable ease with which all of you look at the IDF’s murders of non Jews.

And I agree on the other hand that Arabs do not pay attention to murders in Darfur for example… it is too far from Syria or Lebanon I guess.

But I assure you that if the Syrian army was killing those activists on the ship today you would have heard all of us condemning it. And if the Syrian army today went into Lebanon and killed 1500 Lebanese after two Syrians were killed in Lebanon, you would get a 90% of Syrians to say that they are outraged at their government. In fact Many times Syria workers were attacked and killed in Lebanon (by supporters of M14 parties) the past 5 years and Syria never retaliated.

You guys are incredible … killing thousands of non Jews is so easy for you to support.

May 31st, 2010, 1:41 pm


almasri said:

Guys, Alex, Majed, WD…

I really envy your patience. How can you still talk to these people as normal people? IDF, bullshit PM, so-called government, so-called investigations??? What kind of nonesense?

These are criminal thugs! They do not understand these concepts! They do not deserve respect! They do not belong to civilized nations! They are outcasts! Their proper place is behind bars!

May 31st, 2010, 1:49 pm


Husam said:

When poor Somali fishermen attack a civilian vessel in international waters it is called piracy and warships from many nations are sent in response.

This is simply a strategy to stop this from happening again and makes any peace activist think twice.

Israel got the green light from Washington.

May 31st, 2010, 1:57 pm


Alex said:

Calls on France and the EU to take firm action against Israel by European Parliament deputy Patrick Le Hyaric. He found Israel’s action today revolting and scandalous.

Israël bloque dans le sang l’aide humanitaire pour le peuple de Gaza

Publié le 31 mai 2010 par Patrick Le Hyaric

Je suis scandalisé, révolté par l’arraisonnement des bateaux d’aide alimentaire par l’armée israélienne. Quel visage hideux montre une nouvelle fois ce matin la direction israélienne. Non content d’affamer le peuple de Gaza, le gouvernement et l’armée israélienne sont en train d’empêcher que des bateaux civils, chargés de vivres, d’eau, de médicaments, de matériel de construction soient portés à une population affamée, assoiffée, dans l’impossibilité de reconstruire ses maisons.

L’Union européenne et la France ne peuvent se taire. Ils doivent réagir avec fermeté. L’accord d’association Union européenne-Israël, prévoit la suspension de toute relation dès lors que les libertés sont mises en cause. C’est une nouvelle fois le cas ce matin. Le gouvernement français et l’Union européenne doivent rompre immédiatement toute relation avec le gouvernement israélien et utiliser tous les moyens de pression possibles pour que cesse immédiatement ces attaques contre les bateaux et au-delà qu’on lève le blocus contre Gaza.

Patrick Le Hyaric

Député au Parlement européen
Directeur de l’Humanité
Lundi 31 mai 2010 – 9 H 30

May 31st, 2010, 2:00 pm


Shai said:

There is no doubt that Israel is embarrassed by this terrible event that took place last night, and that its image in the international community has been damaged quite badly. It did not consider enough that the flotilla will put up a fight and, therefore, figured its soldiers could take over control relatively “peacefully”. What ensued is obviously very different from what was anticipated. From a soldier’s point of view, they apparently had no choice but to use live gunfire. An investigation should take place, however, to determine whether Israel had a right to stop this flotilla in the first place.

I never condone the killing of any civilian, but we cannot ignore the fact that the organizers of this flotilla knew they were playing with fire the minute they chose to ignore the repeated warnings of the Israeli navy. While such flotillas may, in the end, prove far more effective a means to battle Israel’s sea embargo on Gaza, it still means that its participants will be risking their lives in their mission. We cannot ignore the fact that the IHH knew this could happen. They were intent on making a point, also at the risk of losing lives. They will have to decide if it was worth it or not.

As for the disproportionate response, it’s difficult to say with certainty. This wasn’t the Gaza 2008/9 scenario, where the IDF was in control from the get go. Here, although it was foolish of the soldiers to board the ships, the task seems almost suicidal, with the odds hugely favoring the 600 onboard against a few dozen soldiers. That only 9 or 10 were killed is almost in itself a miracle. I cannot but assume that those soldiers’ main goal was to take over the ship, and not to kill its passengers. If the latter was its goal, they would have killed scores more, and sustained no injuries.

Still, a dark day indeed for Israel.

May 31st, 2010, 2:07 pm


Alex said:


I know you served in the IDF and you understand wht those young soldiers today had to do.

But that is not the main story today.

When hundreds of thousands of demonstrators gathered downtown Beirut to protest Syria’s presence in Lebanon, within few months Syria withdrew its army 100%

The Syrian army could have prevented that demonstration at the time because they, and their Lebanese security allies were in control of the city. They could have blocked all the entrances that day … had they done that, they would have encountered some protests (like the one the IDF encountered today) .. they would have had to shoot an kill ONLY 9 or 10 Lebanese and everything will be under control

But they did not want to do that .. it was obvious the Syrian army’s presence in Lebanon was not popular. They left… and they did not blockade Lebanon after they left.

Israel does not want to leave the Palestinians alone … Israel is an enemy of all the people in the area.

In 2005 Syria wanted good relations with Lebanon in the future, so the Syrian army did not shoot and kill the Lebanese demonstrators, and did not enter Lebanon later in 2006 when Syrian citizens in Lebanon were killed by M14 supporters.

That is how Syria got to be once again very influential in Lebanon .. with no army this time.

What is worrying is that through all these cases where Israel is not backing down from anything no matter how many civilians are killed, it shows … Israel has very little value in investing in good will gestures towards its neighbors.

Today they made sure they lost Turkey .. the rest of the Turkish people who were not yet against Israel … no going back.

May 31st, 2010, 2:22 pm


norman said:

Only economic sanction on Israel will change it , The Jews of the world can either associate themselves with the Israeli behavior and get hated with increase antisemitism in the West or they can push Israel for peace and save their neck on the long run ,

I am not holding my breath , neither should anybody , Israel has immunity , they are the chosen people after all ,

May 31st, 2010, 2:39 pm


almasri said:

قافلة الحرية على طاولة مجلس الأمن

مجلس الأمن سيجتمع بدعوة من تركيا ولبنان (رويترز-أرشيف)

دفع مقتل 19 متضامنا دوليا بنيران جنود البحرية الإسرائيلية -أثناء توجههم إلى قطاع غزة المحاصر- مجلس الأمن إلى عقد جلسة طارئة ستلتئم هذا المساء.

وقال مراسل الجزيرة في نيويورك إن الاجتماع سيتم بدعوة من تركيا ولبنان وهما عضوان غير دائمين في المجلس وسيحضر الجلسة وزير الخارجية التركي أحد داود أوغلو.

وأشار المراسل إلى أن سفراء المجموعة العربية في الأمم المتحدة عقدوا اجتماعا لبحث طبيعة التحرك وما إذا كانوا سيطلبون صدور بيان صحفي أو رئاسي والتحقيق في قتل المتضامنين بالتنسيق مع تركيا.

ولم يتضح حسب ما أفاد المراسل ما إذا كانت الجلسة ستكون مفتوحة أو مغلقة وسط ترجيح أن يطلب السفراء العرب أن تكون مفتوحة لإبراز المداولات وإدانة الجريمة الإسرائيلية.

وكان التحرك التركي بهذا الاتجاه قد بدأ مبكرا بتوجه أوغلو إلى نيويورك وقطع رئيس الوزراء رجب طيب أردوغان زيارة إلى البرازيل وكذلك فعل رئيس الأركان إلكر بابسوغ الذي كان يزور مصر حسب ما أفادت وسائل الإعلام التركية.

وفي أنقرة نفسها أعلن بولنت أرينش نائب رئيس الحكومة عن إلغاء ثلاث مناوارت مشتركة كانت مقررة بين وحدات من الجيشين التركي والإسرائيلي واستدعى السفير الإسرائيلي بأنقرة لتقديم الاحتجاج.

في هذه الأثناء دعا الرئيس السوري بشار الأسد ورئيس الوزراء اللبناني سعد الحريري -أثناء اجتماعهما بدمشق- مجلس الأمن والجامعة العربية إلى تحرك عاجل لوضع حد لجرائم إسرائيل.

وقال الحريري -الذي تترأس بلاده مجلس الأمن لهذا الشهر- في بيان لاحق إن بلاده تدين هذا الهجوم الخطير وتدعو الدول الكبرى إلى التحرك لوقف الانتهاك الإسرائيلي المتواصل لحقوق الإنسان وتهديد السلام العالمي.

الحريري والأسد دعوا أثناء لقائهما إلى تحرك دولي وعربي عاجل (الفرنسية)
وبعد ساعات من الهجوم الدامي الذي أوقع جرحى خرج البيت الأبيض عن صمته وأعرب المتحدث باسمه بل بيرتون عن “أسفه العميق على سقوط قتلى وجرى في الحادث”.

وأضاف أن إدارة الرئيس باراك أوباما تعمل على الإحاطة بملابسات ما وصفها بالتراجيديا.

زيارة نتنياهو
في غضون ذلك قال متحدث باسم رئيس الوزراء الإسرائيلي بنيامين نتنياهو سيلتقي أوباما في إطار لقاء مرتب سلفا رغم الأزمة الناجمة عن مهاجمة أسطول الحرية. لكن مكتب نتنياهو ما لبث أن أعلن أن الأخير ألغى اللقاء.

وتواصلت ردود الفعل على الهجوم الإسرائيلي في غير مكان حيث أعلن ببرلين أن المستشارة الألمانية أنجيلا ميركل أبلغت رئيسي وزراء إسرائيل وتركيا بنيامين نتنياهو ورجب طيب أردوغان “قلقها الشديد” للهجوم على “أسطول الحرية”.

وفي بروكسل دعت المفوضة العليا للأمن والسياسة الخارجية للاتحاد الأوروبي كاثرين أشتون إسرائيل لإجراء تحقيق كامل بالقضية. وعقد سفراء الدول الأعضاء بالاتحاد الأوروبي اجتماعا طارئا لبحث الموقف.

نتنياهو في كندا ومكتبه أعلن عن إلغاء زيارته إلى واشنطن (رويترز)
وصدرت إدانات للهجوم من الصين وروسيا. وأعرب بيان لوزارة الخارجية في موسكو عن “إدانتها وقلقها”. واعتبرت استخدام القوة المسلحة ضد المدنيين واحتجاز سفن في البحر المفتوح بدون مسوغ قانوني “انتهاك واضح للقانون الدولي”.

آسيا وأفريقيا
في طهران وصف الرئيس الإيراني محمود أحمدي نجاد الهجوم بـ”العمل الإجرامي الذي ينبئ بقرب نهاية إسرائيل”.

وفي إسلام آباد أدان رئيس الوزراء الباكستاني يوسف رضا جيلاني الهجوم.

وأصدرت مفوضية الاتحاد الأفريقي بدورها بيانا عبرت فيه عن صدمتها العميقة بسبب الهجوم الدامي على قافلة المساعدات الإنسانية وطالبت بالتحقيق لتحديد المسؤول عن هذا الارتكاب.

وكانت كل من اليونان والسويد وفرنسا والنمسا وإسبانيا التي تترأس الاتحاد الأوروبي قد استدعت سفراء إسرائيل المعتمدين لديها لتقديم إيضاحات بشأن التصرف الإسرائيلي.


UN security council is called into session.

Uglu is in NY for UN session. Erdogan cancels visit to Brazil and so did the Turkish Chief of staff who was due in Egypt.

Turkey also cancels three maneuvres that were planned now that it has been proven beyond any shadow of doubt the zionists are full blown criminals and are not worth such endeavours.

The US considers the event as a tragedy. Really, I’m not kidding!!!

Criminal thug Neten ya nass yahou cancels planned visit to puppet Washington. Sorry Joshua, his second win is now put on hold.

Pakistan, Africa and Arabs are shocked.

EU wants explanation.

May 31st, 2010, 2:44 pm


norman said:

Russia and China are calling to lift the blockade on Gaza ,

May 31st, 2010, 2:49 pm


Shai said:


You know I agree with you about Israel doing almost everything it can to show how it’s not interested in Peace. I don’t care about words, I see the action, and that’s what counts. Israel is also suffering diplomatically from this, and things will get worse.

But let’s also not pretend like everyone around would have handled this so much more peacefully. Syria has also put down protests in the past by killing many. So has almost every single nation in this region. I almost can’t think of states in the ME that haven’t used brute force at times against even it’s own citizens. I imagine if, theoretically, a flotilla of human-rights activists was headed to Latakia port right now, and the Syrian navy warned it to stop but it didn’t, a takeover might have looked quite similar. Again, I’m not suggesting that stopping this particular flotilla was legal – that’ll have to be discovered in an investigation.

But Alex, putting aside the people that were killed last night, you and I both know that this was not about peace-activists. The people who sent that flotilla forward, after being warned repeatedly, gambled not their own lives, but those of the passengers. I guess Al Masri would call that “offering blood”, not that he would ever be there on that boat, god-forbid.

As a final note, I will refer back to a scenario we once mentioned here on SC, which entailed huge demonstrations by not thousands of Palestinians, but tens and hundreds of thousands. Remember we both agreed that this would be the most effective means to force Israel to accept certain realities, far better than “tiny protests” here and there. This flotilla was not of this type. The minute it decided to disregard the warnings, it no longer was a participant of mere protest, it was now testing the naval embargo. It was bound to pay a price in so doing and, unfortunately, it was a very heavy price.

May 31st, 2010, 2:49 pm


norman said:

So how many of these thousands Palestinians will satisfy Israel’s thirst for blood , I can not believe that you think that it is OK to kill non Israeli challenging the Israeli blockade , I guess you think the Jews should have been left for the German to deal with without western interference ,i am sorry i forgot you deserve better than the Arabs and the Palestinians , when you lose your desire to give to others what you want for yourself you are a racist ,

May 31st, 2010, 2:58 pm


Alex said:


The past few years Syria did not invade neighbors but hosted millions of their refugees … there is no comparison anymore. What happened in that far past is history.

Syria did not retaliate for Israeli attacks on its soil .. did not retaliate again the weaker Lebanese M14 killing its citizens (many times) the pat few years…

Others are learning from their old mistakes, Israel is proud to adopt the worst mistakes as official state strategy.

On Facebook everyone today is calling Israel a fascist country .. fascist .. apartheid … criminal …

There is one way out of that … give up the damn territories. Syria got out of Lebanon when the world and the Lebanese people made it clear it should be out

But you are right … I told Mustapha Barghouti last month (here in Montreal) that the Palestinians are not doing enough … where are those huge demonstrations against Israeli occupation?

There might be a good reason .. can anyone here explain?

May 31st, 2010, 3:00 pm


almasri said:

“Remember we both agreed that this would be the most effective means to force Israel to accept certain realities, far better than “tiny protests” here and there. This flotilla was not of this type. The minute it decided to disregard the warnings, it no longer was a participant of mere protest, it was now testing the naval embargo”


It is the pirate thugs who have NO RIGHT to approach a flotilla heading towards Gaza!!!

Give me a break please. You have blown up every mask you covered yourself with.

That only shows zionist thugs understand none of the following concepts: peace, war, international law, civilized behaviour…

If a so-called peace advocate has the audacity to justify such criminal actions, what you would expect from a real neten yanass yahou?

Please do not refer to me further in your comments. You are not worthy…

May 31st, 2010, 3:03 pm


Shai said:


I agree with you – some are learning their lessons better than others. Israel isn’t.


I find it odd that you would accuse me of condoning these deaths. I specifically said I do not. I also reject your reference to Israel as “blood thirsty”. If those soldiers were blood thirsty, they’d have sprayed those 600 passengers with thousands of bullets, and no images of the flotilla would be showing on YouTube (most of which were provided by the IDF itself).

I’m sorry that this terrible thing happened, Norman. I regret the loss of civilian lives, anywhere. I do NOT think Jews deserve better than non-Jews, so please stop suggesting this. You know my views on the Arab-Israeli conflict.

May 31st, 2010, 3:10 pm


Shai said:

Al Masri must not understand Zionist-English too well. Where did he find a justification of the blockade on Gaza (maybe there’s hidden text in his operating system)? And if all Zionists are “thugs”, how can some of them be “peace advocates”?

Give me a ‘fricken break. You’re the last person that should be talking about Peace.

May 31st, 2010, 3:16 pm


norman said:


Talking the talk is not enough , you should walk the walk if you mean what you say , otherwise you are an accomplice after the fact,
1200 civilian in Lebanon , 1400 in Gaza , you don’t consider that a blood thirsty country,! ,

May 31st, 2010, 3:19 pm


Shai said:


If we’re all criminals, then there’s nothing to talk about. I promise you I’m “walking-the-walk” no less than you are.

As terrible as this thing was (and I am NOT justifying it), it will probably prove the most efficient tool to finally break the blockade. If not this flotilla, I’m sure there will be many more to come. This will undoubtedly force the world to deal with the Gaza issue.

May 31st, 2010, 3:23 pm


almasri said:

SO-CALLED PEACE ADVOCATE (plain racist to the naked eye) @81

You’re really not worth it, even more so now that you are pretending to know and teach English. As if no body knows the difference between the term SO-CALLED PEACE ADVOCATES and the real unqualified term of just plain PEACE ADVOCATE. Get the **** off.

But thanks Norman @77 for finally saying the obvious about this SO-CALLED PEACE ADVOCATE: a racist justifying a blockade by a pirate entity.

May 31st, 2010, 3:30 pm


Shai said:

Al Masri,

Take a chill pill buddy. Not that I really want to communicate with you – you too aren’t “worth it”. But if you refer to me as a racist, I will have to complain to the same moderators you so vividly call upon on a near daily basis lately.

May 31st, 2010, 3:32 pm


annie said:

.. why did Israel do such a dumb insipid pathetic thing? Because it can, because it is a country and a society drunk on power and violence. The fall-out will be tremendous as the country’s remaining quota of liberal Zionists, slowly going extinct, recognize, as Israel defends the siege for its own sake, as indeed military officers acknowledged before the massacre. At least occasionally someone in the state apparatus is honest. The Israeli government is spinning and lying. The soldiers, attacking peaceful ships, were defending themselves or whatever. No one will take this seriously except those who wish to. More than pirates, the Israeli government is helmed by fools.

this is an extact from “zionist pirates” by jewbonics whom Gadol here will probably call a self hating jew

May 31st, 2010, 3:44 pm


why-discuss said:


“I never condone the killing of any civilian, but we cannot ignore the fact that the organizers of this flotilla knew they were playing with fire the minute they chose to ignore the repeated warnings of the Israeli navy.”

This is called courageous resistance and heroism against bullies who think they own the land and the sea and who believe that international laws does not apply to them…
You seriously think they should have obtemperated to the warnings of Israel, why would they?
The illegal occupiers are not the flotilla civilians, but a state represented in the UN who continuously acts illegally. Israel must bear the consequences of its aggressivity and its disregard of international laws: Increased conddamnation and isolation
Maybe the israelis will wake up from the decades of euphoria of having the upper hand on the arabs militarily and politically .

May 31st, 2010, 3:44 pm


Shai said:


Indeed Israel will bear the consequences of its aggressiveness. It will likely be severe condemnation and further isolation.

May 31st, 2010, 3:51 pm


alamsri said:


“I will have to complain to the same moderators you so vividly call upon on a near daily basis lately.”

I will make it easy for you.

Dear SC Moderators,

I am calling this zionist SO-CALLED PEACE ADVOCATE last shown self @85 a RACIST based on what he or she was saying on this forum recently. And so did Norman @77.

May 31st, 2010, 3:52 pm


almasri said:


“But if you refer to me as a racist, I will have to complain to the same moderators you so vividly call upon on a near daily basis lately.”

I will make it easy for you.

Dear SC Moderators,

I am calling this zionist SO-CALLED PEACE ADVOCATE who appeared most recently @85 a RACIST based on what he or she was saying on this forum recently. And so did Norman @77.

May 31st, 2010, 3:54 pm


Amir in Tel Aviv said:


Lebanon did not call for the destruction of Syria. So Syria could withdraw with quite a certainty, that no harm will come from Lebanon.
Which leads me to the next point.
Demonstrations against the occupation will not help. Demonstrations for peace and for mutual recognitions of rights, will.
But as my late grandmother used to say: hair will grow on my palm, before this happens.

May 31st, 2010, 4:04 pm


majedkhaldoun said:

Is it possible that UN security council statrmrnt will be unanimous?

May 31st, 2010, 4:50 pm


SimoHurtta said:

One positive outcome of all this.
No more “freedom” and “humanitarian” flotillas in the near future.

Well Amir lessee in Tel Aviv one outcome of this can be a defence union between Turkey, Syria and Lebanon sooner than anybody thought. 100.000 Turkish soldiers in Golan and standing shoulder against shoulder with Hezbolah on Litani will tame Israel in a day.

Anyway Turkey must now finally make the West to decide is Israel worth all the trouble and resentment it creates. It has been obvious already some time that Turkey will not in future let Israel to be the region\’s dominant military power. Now Israel gave Turkey both internal and external \”weapons\” for actions to downgrade Israel\’s might. If USA has to choose between Turkey and Israel the outcome is Israel then USA is out of the \”game\” in Eurasia. Turkey has many cards in his hand, Israel none. It will be interesting to see will Israel have nukes after five years. If it has so will Turkey and some other Middle Eastern countries have. Obama has to make a choice. Turkey\’s game plan hardly changes much even if USA/Israel manages to organize a military coup in Turkey. Turkey will not let Israel to play the first violin in the local orchestra.

31st of May 2010 was a bad day for Zionism, not necessary for Palestinians or Middle East.

May 31st, 2010, 4:51 pm


ziad said:

I agree with Norman as far as Shai is concerned.

Shai justified the killings because the Israeli Destruction Forces gave them a warning. Israel has no right what so ever to interfere with these ships.

The Iranian president is correct when he said this is a sign of weakness. Just because you have the power to kill people at random does not mean you do it.

But when you are blood thirsty and can not live without it what can you do.

May 31st, 2010, 5:06 pm


Alex said:


I respectfully disagree. Please do not call Shai a racist, this is not fair. If today he expressed an opinion that you do not agree with, debate him without name calling. Others who frequently demonstrate their lack of respect to Arab dignity or lack of value for Arab life are racists, not Shai. And please let us try to avoid anything that might be interpreted as racism, starting by trying much harder to avoid linking everything to “Jews”


I usually agree with you on many things. But one thing I noticed is that you, and most pro-peace Israelis, feel very uncomfortable criticizing the IDF … All of you defend the IDF without much hesitation. Because you served there and you experienced the difficulties that many of those young men have to endure as they defend Israel, you feel bad for them as they are being criticized on discussion forums like SC.

The problem is that the IDF is more than a group of innocent kids defending their people. It is one of the main problems … Besides being Israel’s tool used to terrorize its neighbors who entertain the thought of resisting Israel’s illegal occupation of their lands, it is a psychological problem. Your country is so attached to the IDF … it is a source of pride and even enjoyment and entertainment when it performs so well during its attacks on Arabs here or there.

Comprehensive peace means the end of the IDF as you now it … with solid peace the IDF turns into something boring … like the Swiss guards at the Vatican, minus the colorful clothing.

I’m sure you will tell me that you would love to see that day, but many Israelis who are proud of their country’s war machine will be disappointed … consciously, or subconsciously.

May 31st, 2010, 5:13 pm


almasri said:


I respect your opinion in the hope that you will respect my opinion without asking you to agree with it. With the opinion that I have, I fail to see the value of debating with him or her. If you or the host would like to ban me on this basis, by all means do so.

As for name calling, he or she was as creative as I may have been.

May 31st, 2010, 5:27 pm


Alex said:


I do not want to ban anyone, we are all adults. But I hope we can try to respect the rules of this blog instead of challenging them.

Here is Turkish FM Ahmet Davutoglu’s Speech at UNSC

Mr. President,

I appear before you today as a result of a very sad and tragic occasion where one state member of this august house has committed a serious crime in total disregard of all the values we have vowed to uphold since the establishment of the United Nations system.

I am distraught by the fact that the Israeli Defense Forces stormed a multinational, civilian endeavor carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza in international waters, 72 nautical miles off the coast to be exact, killing and wounding many civilians. This action was uncalled for. Israeli actions constitute a grave breach of international law.

In simplest terms, this is tantamount to banditry and piracy. It is murder conducted by a state. It has no excuses, no justification whatsoever. A nation state that follows this path has lost its legitimacy as a respectful member of the international community.

The multinational civilian flotilla composed of a few ships and a total of around 600 people from 32 countries, carrying humanitarian aid to the impoverished Gaza was unlawfully ambushed early today. The sole aim of this civilian mission was to provide much needed relief to the children of occupied Gaza who have been under illegal and inhumane Israeli blockade for years. The ships were hardly a threat to the State of Israel or any other state for that matter. Humanitarian aid was on its way to children who have been stripped of their opportunities to live as children and enjoy all the basic amenities that your and our children take for granted. These children do not know where their next meal is coming from. They either have no shelter or live in extremely deprived conditions. They receive no education; they have no future where they can contribute to a peaceful and stable Palestine and region.

Mr. President,

The ships carry amenities and facilities such as playgrounds that would remind the children of their childhoods. They carry very basic needs like cancer medication and milk powder to enhance child growth and health in the absence of milk proper. The international community has been a witness to this humanitarian tragedy for years, failing to act. And today this is where we are. Today we have observed through live coverage an act of barbarism where provision of humanitarian aid has been punished through aggression in high seas, 72 miles from international waters.. Today many humanitarian aid workers go back in bodybags. And Israel has blood on its hands. This is not off the coast of Somalia or in the archipelagos of the Far East where piracy is still a phenomenon. This is the Mediterranean where such acts are not the norm. This is where we need common sense. This is where civilization has emerged and flourished and where the Abrahamic religions took root. These are religions that preach peace and teach us to extend our hands when others are in need.

The use of force was not only inappropriate, but also disproportionate. International law dictates that even in wartime, civilians are not to be attacked or harmed. The doctrine of self-defense does not in any way justify the actions taken by the Israeli forces. High-seas freedoms constitute one of the most basic rights under international law of the sea, including customary international law. Freedom of navigation is one of the oldest forms of international norms, dating back centuries. No vessel can be stopped or boarded without the consent of the captain or the flag state. The law permitting such action in exceptional cases is clearly stated. Furthermore, any suspected violation of law on the part of the vessel and its crew on the high seas does not absolve the intervening state of its duties and responsibilities under applicable international law. To treat humanitarian aid delivery as a hostile act and to treat the aid workers as combatants is a reflection of a dangerous state of mind, with detrimental effects to regional and global peace. Therefore, the Israeli actions cannot be deemed legal or legitimate. Any attempt to legitimize the attack is futile.

Mr. President,

This unacceptable action was perpetrated by those who in the past had taken advantage of ships carrying refugees and those escaping one of the worst tragedies of the last century. They should be more aware than most of the importance of humanitarian assistance, of the dangers and inhumanity of ghettos as the one we currently witness in occupied Gaza.

I am proud to be representing a nation that in the past has helped those in need and escaping extermination.

After the act of aggression, I have heard official statements claiming that the civilians on the ships were members of a radical Islamist group. It saddens me to see that officials of a state stoop so low as to lie and struggle to create pretexts that would legitimize their illegal actions. However, the flotilla consists of citizens of 32 countries. All of them civilians, representing many faiths; Christianity, Islam, Judaism and people from all creeds and backgrounds. It represents the conscience of the international community. It is a model of the United Nations. Therefore, this was an attack on the United Nations and its values. The international system has suffered a sharp blow and now it is our responsibility to rectify this and prove that common sense and respect to international law prevails. We must be able to show that use of force is not an option unless clearly stated in law. We must uphold our commitments and punish those who are in contradiction. The system must be set right. Otherwise the trust of the people in the system, in their leaders, in us will be demolished.

No state is above the law. Israel must be prepared to face the consequences and be held accountable for its crimes.

Under the conditions, any slim chance that existed regarding peace and stability in the region has suffered a serious setback. The processes in place have been suffocated by this one single act. It seems as if Israel has gone the extra mile in order to negate any positive developments and hopes for the future. They have become advocates of aggression and use of force.

In view of all these, today, I call on the people of Israel to express their dismay regarding this wrong doing. They must not allow another blatant action to once again present Israel as an aggressor. They must take steps to reinstate their status as a credible partner and responsible member of the international community.

Turkey would like to see that the Security Council strongly reacts and adopts a Presidential Statement today strongly condemning this Israeli act of aggression, demanding an urgent inquiry into the incident and calling for the punishment of all responsible authorities and persons. I call on this Council to step up and do what is expected of it.

We hereby expect for the following to be included in the decision.

Israel must apologize to the international community and to the families of those who have been killed and wounded in the attack.
An urgent inquiry must be undertaken.
Appropriate international legal action must immediately be taken against the authorities responsible for and perpetrators of this aggression.
A severe sense of disappointment and warning must be issued by the United Nations. Israel must be urged to abide by international law and basic human rights.
The countries concerned must be allowed to retrieve their deceased and wounded immediately.
The ships must be expressly released and allowed to deliver the humanitarian assistance to its destination.
The families of the deceased, wounded, NGO’s and shipping companies concerned must be compensated to the full extent.
The blockade of Gaza must be ended immediately and all humanitarian assistance must be allowed in.
Gaza must be made an example by swiftly developing it, to make it a region of peace. The international community must be invited to contribute.

Mr. President,

This is a black day in the history of humanity where the distance between terrorists and states has been blurred. Anyone that stands in the way of reestablishing dignity and respect of the international world order will have to answer to the world public opinion

It is incumbent upon us to show that all states are bound by international law and human values. Turkey is prepared to shoulder its responsibility in this regard. I am sure that this is our common goal.

In ending, I salute all humanitarian workers who endeavor to provide relief. They are the people in the front lines. I present my condolences to the families of those who gave their lives in this pursuit whatever their background, their religion or ethnicity. I share their grief.

According to our Abrahamic tradition and my belief, killing one human being is killing humanity as a whole. Yesterday humanity drowned in the international waters of the Mediterranean.

Thank you.

May 31st, 2010, 5:31 pm


Shai said:

Alex, Ziad,

I’m sorry to disagree with you, but I never justified the killings, nor did I ever justify the IDF boarding those ships. In fact, I think it was foolish of them to do so, and I suggested an investigation should be undertaken to find if Israel could have even legally stopped the flotilla.


Please do recall that I was quite-capable of criticizing the IDF both in Lebanon 2006 and in Gaza 2008/9. It has nothing to do with pro-peace or against-peace. I condemned it, regardless of whether Hamas or the Palestinians were interested in Peace with Israel.

I am not here to defend myself as a supporter of peace. If for some, pro-peace means thinking any Hamas action is smart, then I guess to them I’m not pro-peace.

Btw, that AlMasri character’s own government (assuming he’s Egyptian), just recently did not allow a similar Turkish flotilla to enter Gaza. They turned them away to El Arish, where aid was taken off the ships and sent to Gaza via land. I don’t recall hearing widespread condemnations of this Egyptian decision. But again, I am AGAINST the blockade on Gaza, on land, sea, and air. Do I need to be any more clear than this?

May 31st, 2010, 5:32 pm


Alex said:


I have no doubt you condemned the Israeli government’s decisions to attack Lebanon and Gaza. you have an excellent understanding of what is the right, or wrong, thing to do.

And I know that your value system will not allow you to enjoy watching Israeli F16s hitting civilian targets in Lebanon.

But you did in the past feel the need to say something about the young soldiers who are serving in the IDF .. your original comment today was not in defense of the blockade of Gaza, but it was your attempt to explain to us what it is like for those soldiers to get on that ship and find resistance.

And you are right that others do a lot of killing, and other evil things .. Egypt for example is helping Israel seal the Gaza border, Sunnis and Shias killed each other in Iraq, and the United States killed too many people in Iraq and elsewhere as it protected its national interests (supposedly).

But Israel does it too often and Israel gets treated like the darling of the “International community” because Israel allegedly is the only democracy, it is the country that protected those who were subjected to violence before …

Israel can not ask for special treatment while acting like the worst thugs. The others get called “terrorists” and “axil of evil” … It is Israel turn to get its share of the name calling that its PR machine worldwide is so good in generating to discredit anyone who resists Israeli occupation.

In many world opinion polls Israel placed near or at the bottom spot, right next to North Korea … there is a reason for that.

May 31st, 2010, 5:50 pm


ziad said:

I also agree with Annie. Over the last few months, there are more professional Zionist bloggers than Syrians on this website.

Professor Josh,

I do respect you and like your work but I feel the one month ban on Ghat is very extreme. I do not know Ghat and Ghat does not know me.

Israel, according to it government and people, is Jewish and for Jewish people only. They commit endless crimes under the name of self defense and protecting Jewish people. When the Arabs were saying that they are anti Zionism, Israelis equated that with anti Semitism and told us it is the same as being anti Jewish.

One of the most active Israeli participants today justified the killing because these non Jewish people did not listen to his IDF. I am quating: “I never condone the killing of any civilian, but we cannot ignore the fact that the organizers of this flotilla knew they were playing with fire the minute they chose to ignore the repeated warnings of the Israeli navy.” I call this a racist statement but no one banned him or even gave him a warning.

The Israeli participants on this blog call us all kind of different names including Muslim terrorists and the list goes on but I do not see anyone of them being banned and I really do not care if they do. I just ignore their messages and move on.

May 31st, 2010, 6:00 pm


Shai said:


You know my thoughts on this.

I am sorry that Israel chose to board that flotilla, and of course that civilians were killed as a result. Today is a black day for Israel, and one for which we may pay greatly.

I have no doubts whatsoever that the organizers of this “peace activist” flotilla were indeed one step ahead of Israel and, despite the painful price, are quite satisfied with the results. This may yet prove to be the straw that broke the camel’s back.


Thank you for reaffirming your belief, that I am a racist. Your interpretation of what I said was chosen by you, but I do not support it.

To make it easier to understand, let me suggest the following:

If a flotilla of Jewish/Israeli human-rights activists were on their way to Latakia port, ignored repeated warnings by the Syrian Navy to stay away, and in the end a similar situation would occur (9 Jews die in a Syrian takeover), I would use the same words I did above, the ones that you quoted so well. I would NOT justify the killing. But I would bear certain responsibility with the Jewish flotilla. Now, if that’s to you still racism, then fine, I’m a racist.

May 31st, 2010, 6:05 pm


Joshua said:

I do not like to ban people. But I also do not like the comment section of SC becoming a yelling match and race to the lowest common denominator.

i have banned a number of Pro-Israeli types, who were quite civil but disciplined hasbara machines that spat out the party line with wearying regularity and frequency, provoking readers just enough to dominate the comment section. Everyone lost interest for good reason. Nothing new was ever said. Discussion ceased. Flaming dominated.

May 31st, 2010, 6:28 pm


ziad said:


I called your statement a racist one. I never called you one. I still believe the statement itself is racist.

Your comparison are null and void for these reasons:
Latakia is a syrian city and not an occupied and deprived like Gaza.

The flotilla never entered Israeli waters and they never intended to do so.

We are at war with Israel so any ships coming from Israel will be treated like enemy ones. These ships came from friendly countries and were not going to Israel in the first place.

May 31st, 2010, 6:30 pm


ziad said:

Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, has called US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and National Security Advisory James Jones on Monday to brief them on the assault.

A statement from Barak’s office said he had told them that the raid was in keeping with maritime law.

“The passengers on the Marmara beat our soldiers with every object they had and wounded some of them,” the statement quoted him as saying.

“The soldiers defended themselves.”

Oh Hillary, they had toothpicks. We just defended ourselves.

7.53pm: Oscar Fernandez-Taranco, the chief foreign policy official of the United Nations, asks Israel to end its “counterproductive” and “unacceptable” blockade on Gaza in the emergency UN Security Council meeting.

7:05pm: Mohammad Dahlan, a senior member of Fatah, just announced that the party will send a delegation to Gaza to meet with Hamas for reconciliation talks, and that the Palestinian Authority will push for a UN Security Council resolution on lifting the blockade of Gaza.

Hamas and Fatah have been bitterly at odds since Hamas took control of Gaza in 2007, and months of recent reconciliation talks haven’t led anywhere. So a Fatah delegation to Gaza could be a significant step.

May 31st, 2010, 6:46 pm


Shai said:


Thank you for clarifying. My example was not meant to be equated to Gaza, it was meant to demonstrate that I did not see non-Jews on the Turkish flotilla as deserving any different treatment than Jews would have, in a theoretical case somewhere else. I wanted to show, that there was no racism in my mind when I made that statement.

Look, I am against the blockade of Gaza, and have been against it from day one. I can’t speak to the legality of Israel’s stopping this flotilla en route to Gaza – that will be determined I imagine very soon (as will the blockade itself). But if the organizers of the flotilla knew that Israel would refuse their entry into Gaza, or even territorial waters under Israeli control, and that the Navy would take over their ships, and yet they planned to move ahead and resist with whatever means they had, then they did take a terrible chance that this could happen.

You want to absolve the IHH of any responsibility whatsoever for the safety of their passengers? Fine. It was indeed IDF bullets that killed those people. But the IHH did put them in harm’s way by sending them into a situation (legal or not) that was known in advance.

May 31st, 2010, 6:48 pm


almasri said:

The video at this link mentions four points are being debated at UN as the elements of resolution to be voted upon by the council members,

1) Clear and unequivocal condemnation of Israel
2) Immediate lifting of the Gaza blockade
3) Investigation under UN
4) Immediate and unconditional freeing of the activists from Ashdod.

The video also mentioned a high level delegation from central committee of Fatah is on its way to Gaza for reconciliation with Hamas.

May 31st, 2010, 7:08 pm


jad said:

I’m going to remind you of one thing that you did call for many times on SC, do you remember when you called for Palestinians and Syrians to go out for a peaceful march from every corner of the occupied Arab lands in Palestine and the Jolan asking for freedom?
You were an advocate for such symbolic move yet now you are trying to analyze things differently than your earlier idea which is in principles not any difference from bringing food by international peace activist to the Auschwitz like prison with 1.5millions called Gaza that your government hold hostage and treating them like animal.
What changed? Why can’t you condemn what happened? You know very well that almost all of us, Syrians, are ready to condemn our government if they do the same as Alex wrote before.
do you really think that any of those activist deserve to die for what they are doing? or deserve to be faced by bullets, helicopters and a whole army for brining food???
I’m sorry to say that Shai, but your statement about this specific incident wasn’t as humane and as noble as it supposed to be. You did fell in the trap of ignoring your humanitarian side on this in your way of over analyzing an obvious crime, what your country did is a hideous and ugly crime.
I do hope that some good will come out of this tragedy and that those heroes who died wont be forgotten as many people before them.
Let’s see what the ‘fair’ ‘white’ ‘civilized’ ‘democratic’ world will do about this massacre? (Nothing I say)

May 31st, 2010, 7:11 pm


Amir in Tel Aviv said:

I don’t remember this kind of a rage, when Israelis got dismantled into bleeding body-parts, when riding buses in Israel, on a daily basis. Some times a couple of times a day.

Not that I didn’t notice any rage, I did see on AlJezeera, people giving candies to celebrating drivers and pedestrians, who just at that moment heard there was another “successful” amali’ye, and were very very happy about it.

So Alex, it’s not a love for the IDF, but it’s a trust in the IDF. It weren’t the Arabs who volunteered to end this carnage by suicides, but it was the IDF that put an end to it.

Your rage is selective. A selective rage.

Today (believe it or don’t) I didn’t see or witnessed any gloating in the streets of Tel-Aviv. On the contrary. I did see gloomy faces and worried people.

May 31st, 2010, 7:19 pm


norman said:

Hi guys ,

I just want to make it clear as i noticed that i was quoted many times , i did not mean Shai in particular , actually , I know you do not like that Almasri, shai is more caring than many but probably he is as shocked as we are and can not believe that his army would do that , he is just does not know what kind of army he got , probably was in the army long ago ,i meant in general that people who do not want to others what they would want for themselves are racists, no matter who they are ,

May 31st, 2010, 7:19 pm


majedkhaldoun said:

When someone call us antisemitic,this is equivalent to call us racist,if you ban the word racist,then you should ban the word antisemitic

May 31st, 2010, 7:21 pm


almasri said:

From among all the Arab governments and people, tiny Kuwait which in 1991 was almost at war with arafat, is the most vocal both on government and popular levels even calling on King Abdullah of KSA to withdraw his so-called Arab peace initiative,

There were big demonstartions in Egypt. Needless to say they were carefully escorted by security forces. Even Azhar under the new head seems to have changed its tone with regards to the zionist criminals (compared with the previous head who shamelessly shook hands with them),

OK Norman, it is quite diplomatic on your part to be apologetic on behalf of others. Honestly, SC cannot survive without your diplomatic skills. But I am always the bad cop.

May 31st, 2010, 7:40 pm


why-discuss said:

Adam Shapiro, cofondateur du Mouvement de solidarité internationale, qui a participé à l’opération navale, revient sur l’assaut israélien.

Q – Comment s’est déroulé l’assaut israélien contre la flottille ?
R – Selon nos informations, Israël a lancé l’assaut autour de trois heures du matin, heure locale. Un millier de soldats ont été déployés, ainsi que des navires de guerre, des hélicoptères et des avions. L’assaut a d’abord été lancé contre le bateau turc de passagers (Mavi Marmara, NDLR) qui comptait quelque 600 personnes à son bord. Les soldats y ont été lâchés à partir d’un hélicoptère. Selon nos informations, les soldats ont commencé à ouvrir le feu dès qu’il ont touché le pont.

Ya-t-il eu des avertissements ?
Le seul avertissement lancé par les autorités israéliennes était de faire demi-tour.
Le général Ashkenazi a déclaré que des activistes étaient armés.
Les bateaux ont été méticuleusement inspectés avant de quitter leur port de départ. Ils ont obtenu le feu vert pour partir, donc aucune arme n’avait été trouvée à bord. D’après nos informations, certains passagers, après que les Israéliens ont ouvert le feu, ont tenté de se défendre avec des bâtons et des barres de fer. Maintenant, je n’étais pas personnellement sur le bateau, je ne peux rien confirmer à 100 %. Mais les vidéos ne montrent aucun militant armé. Et Israël n’a avancé aucune preuve que les militants étaient armés. Et c’est à Israël d’apporter une telle preuve si elle existe.

Vous attendiez-vous à une réaction israélienne d’une telle violence ?
Nous sommes des activistes expérimentés, nous n’en sommes pas à notre première mission sur mer ou sur terre. Nous savions que les Israéliens allaient tout faire pour nous arrêter. Nous savions que des armes mortelles pourraient être utilisées par les Israéliens. Mais cela nous semblait peu probable. Les autorités israéliennes avaient déclaré que les commandos d’élite seraient envoyés sur cette opération. Si les soldats qui ont participé à l’assaut sont effectivement des commandos d’élite, alors on ne peut que conclure que l’ordre de tirer leur a été donné, car ce type de soldat ne cafouille pas.
Avant l’assaut, Israël avait dénoncé la mission comme étant un acte de provocation et mis en doute son caractère légal.
La flottille a été arrêtée dans les eaux internationales. Nous étions encore loin des eaux israéliennes ou de Gaza. Et nous avions eu l’autorisation de naviguer de la part des ports de départ. Quand les Israéliens nous ont arrêtés, nous étions dans la légalité. Par ailleurs, Israël part de l’hypothèse que son blocus de Gaza est légal pour dire que notre mission ne l’est pas. Or les Nations unies, la Croix-Rouge et beaucoup d’autres organisations ont dit que le blocus de Gaza est illégal car ce blocus est une punition collective, ce qui est illégal selon le droit international.

De nombreuses voix se sont élevées, au sein de la communauté internationale, pour fermement condamner l’assaut israélien. Que pensez-vous de ces réactions ?
De cette tragédie, nous espérons que naîtra un début de prise de conscience de la part de la communauté internationale sur la réalité du Moyen-Orient, en ce sens qu’Israël se présente toujours comme la victime alors qu’il est l’agresseur. Aujourd’hui, le potentiel existe pour une intifada globale visant à soutenir les droits des Palestiniens et à condamner l’occupation brutale israélienne.

May 31st, 2010, 8:33 pm


Alex said:


Two years ago we had a new commentator (AIG) who came here with his typical Israeli PR robot vocabulary .. eveyone was an anti semite.

I remember once he was upset that Naji called one right wing Israeli writer “ugly” because she wrote something advocating punishing the Palestinians Civilians harshly if they resist Israel . AIG bombarded my inbox that day to convince me that Naji is anti semetic!

How was that? … AIG said … because Jews have big noses and therefore if Naji called her ugly surely he believed all Jews are ugly, which is antisemetic.

Naji was not the only one AIG called an anti semite … everything I wrote was at first anti semitic, then AIG realized I’m an admin, so he reduced it to “borderline antisemetic”

Anyway … Joshua banned him eventually.

Let us not act like them … if you have to call someone a racist, it better be REALLY deserved… if that person consistently demonstrates his contempt or hate for Arabs.


First, Syira in Lebanon … Lebanon did not threaten to invade Syria … but Lebanon (M14 led Lebanon) at the time was coordinating on a daily basis with US ambassador Jeff Feltman on how to isolate Syria. And Walid Jumblattt (in power at the time) threatened to assassinate President ASsad … he called on Washington to invade Syria, and he called for car bombs in Damascus.

As for the lack of rage here when there were terror acts against Israel

1) Remind me please … When was the lat time 10 Israeli civilians were car bombed?? .. that must have been long time ago because for the past 5 years all I remember is Israelis killing civilians.

2) When some small organization kills a few Israeli civilians there is no surprise because those organizations are called “terror organizations” already and they are condemned in every wester capital … etc

But Israel? .. the only democracy in the Middle East? ..the one that gets 3 billions per year in US aid? .. the one that complains about At=rabs not respecting Human rights ? … the one that tells the US and Canada “we share the same values”?

May 31st, 2010, 9:59 pm


Akbar Palace said:

The Hasbara/”Peace Activist” Conundrum and, The Double Standard Continues

Your rage is selective. A selective rage.


You’re right.

The PKK has been fighting for autonomy in Turkey’s largely Kurdish south-east for more than two decades. Some 40,000 people have been killed.

Alex, Professor Josh,

Here’s some more “hasbara”. Don’t stop at the pictures; click on the articles and video links as well.

BTW, your hebrew is getting better!

May 31st, 2010, 10:20 pm


norman said:

The Huffington Post May 31, 2010

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Amy GoodmanHost, executive producer of Democracy Now!, NYT bestselling author, syndicated columnist
Posted: May 31, 2010 04:47 PM BIO Become a Fan Get Email Alerts Bloggers’ Index

Interview: At Least 15 Dead After Israel Attacks Gaza-Bound Aid Flotilla

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Read More: #Flotilla , Adam-Shapiro , Free Gaza Movement , Gaza , Gaza-Freedom-Flotilla , Israel , Mavi Marmara , Palestinians , World News
I interviewed Adam Shapiro, board member of the Free Gaza Movement, hours after the attack on the Free Gaza Freedom Flotilla.

Listen Here – Transcript below.

Israeli forces have attacked a flotilla of ships carrying humanitarian aid to the besieged Gaza strip. Dubbed the Freedom Flotilla, the ships were aiming to break Israel’s 3-year blockade of Gaza. At least 15 people were killed and dozens injured when Israeli troops attacked the lead ship in the convoy-the Turkish “Mavi Marmara”-early Monday morning. The attack happened in international waters, 75 miles off the coast of Israel and Gaza. We reached Adam Shapiro in New York a few hours after the attack. He’s a board member of the Free Gaza movement, one of the groups that coordinated the Freedom Flotilla. His wife Huwaida Arraf is the chairperson of the Free Gaza movement and is on the flotilla.

Just before being kidnapped by Israel, Huwaida Arraf, Free Gaza Movement chairperson and delegation co-coordinator on this voyage, stated that: “No one could possibly believe that our small boat constitutes any sort of threat to Israel. We carry medical and reconstruction supplies, and children’s toys. Our passengers include a Nobel peace prize laureate and a former U.S. congressperson. Our boat was searched and received a security clearance by Cypriot Port Authorities before we departed, and at no time did we ever approach Israeli waters.”

More information on the Israeli attack:

Live coverage from Al Jazeera English

Witness Gaza

Follow #flotilla, @JamalDajani, @avinunu on Twitter for the latest updates.


Amy Goodman: This is Democracy Now!, I’m Amy Goodman. We have on the line with us Adam Shapiro. He is a board member of the Free Gaza Movement. Adam, we got word several hours ago that the Israeli military had attacked the Free Gaza Flotilla. We are speaking to you at about 3:30 AM Eastern Standard Time. Can you tell us what you understand has happened?

Adam Shapiro: The Israelis launched a military operation involving about a thousand soldiers, using ships, using helicopters, and using airplanes to attack the flotilla of six ships – three passenger and three cargo ships, at approximately between 8 and 9 pm Eastern Standard Time. All the ships have been captured. One of the ships that we know for sure, which had a satellite communication ability, the large Turkish ship with about 600 passengers including members of Parliament from different countries, was attacked by Israeli soldiers using live ammunition. We now know that at least 14 people have been confirmed killed, and perhaps as many as 20 killed, with over 60 injured, and currently all the ships are being brought into the Israeli port of Haifa.

Amy Goodman: We are reading Israeli military reports that say when they boarded the Turkish ship, that they were attacked by sticks and knives. What do you understand has happened?

Adam Shapiro: Our people on the ship reported live as the soldiers came onto the ship, and reported that soldiers were opening fire as they were coming onto the ship, and they were descending from helicopters. So, our understanding is that the Israeli soldiers opened fire first. I have not seen or heard any thing else about – and there are many journalists on board that ship – anything else about our people, the passengers on that ship, posing any kind of threat. There was a live feed coming from the ship using satellite, video satellite, on satellite, that has been rebroadcast on CNN, on CNN Turk, on Al Jazeera, on Press TV, on numerous media outlets, not one image from this entire footage shows any of the passengers holding any kind of object that could be construed as a weapon. So, I mean, I am sure that the Israelis would like the world to believe that they were the ones being attacked as they assaulted these ships, but this is just Israeli spin.

Amy Goodman: Adam Shapiro, what is the purpose of the Free Gaza Flotilla?

Adam Shapiro: The purpose of the Free Gaza Freedom Flotilla was to literally break the Israeli blockade that it is imposing on Gaza, a form of collective punishment of 1.5 million Palestinians who are trying to survive at this point, basically, especially after the Israeli attacks in December, 2008-January, 2009, in which much of Gaza was reduced to rubble, and has not been able to have been rebuilt, where Palestinians can’t get basic food and medicine in, to just survive with. And so, this effort was, yes, to deliver the goods and materials that Gaza, the Palestinians in Gaza need, but also to awaken the international community to the abuse that the Palestinians are suffering that has been regarded by the Goldstone Report, by many other reports and by human rights organizations, including the E.U. and other groups, calling this blockade and this siege criminal, as well as cruel and inhuman.

Amy Goodman: What is your response to what has happened in these last hours, to the Israeli military assault on the Free Gaza Flotilla?

Adam Shapiro: We have always been prepared that the Israelis might attack the ships and try, obviously, try to take control of them, and prevent us from reaching Gaza, but the opening of fire against unarmed civilians who pose no threat to Israel, is something, I think, it is absurd in a way that can’t even be described. We all remember what happened to Rachel Corrie in Gaza, standing in front of a home to protect it and being crushed and run over by a bulldozer driver. In this case, I think in a way, it is almost even worse, because Israel said that they were sending their best commandos on this mission, that they were sending their most professional soldiers, and so if these are their professional soldiers, and they opened fire, then we must assume, then, and I don’t think we are incorrect to assume, that they had orders to open fire, because I don’t think that soldiers operating in this way, if they were truly professional, and they were truly the best, well-trained commandos that Israel had, they would have no reason to shoot, unless they were ordered to do so.

And I really hope that the United States, the Europeans, and Turkey, and the other governments who had citizens on board press for an independent investigation, not an Israeli investigation, an independent investigation. This attack took place in international waters, not in Israeli waters.

Amy Goodman: Who was on the Turkish ship?

Adam Shapiro: On board the Turkish ship were over, approximately about 600 passengers. We had quite a large number of Turkish activists. Of course, the boat was secured in Turkey, and purchased by a Turkish organization, so many of their people were on board. We also had members of the European Parliament on board, we had members of Arab parliaments on board, including Egypt and Jordan, we had others activists who have been active in trying to raise the awareness of what’s happening to Palestinians in general and specifically in Gaza, and we had media. We had Al Jazeera on board, we had a couple of Turkish broadcasting channels on board, as well as other print and other forms of media on board.

Amy Goodman: Adam Shapiro, thank you for taking the time to talk to us.

Adam Shapiro: Thank you very much.

Amy Goodman: Adam Shapiro is a board member of the Free Gaza Movement.

Follow Amy Goodman on Twitter:

May 31st, 2010, 10:41 pm


almasri said:


Your earlier question is now answered. The US is now officially a State-sponsor and supporter of state-terrorism and international piracy according to this report,

واشنطن تعيق إدانة مجزرة الأسطول

مجلس الأمن عقد جلسة مفتوحة أعقبتها مداولات مغلقة (الأوروبية)

قال مراسل الجزيرة في مقر الأمم المتحدة إن الوفد الأميركي بمجلس الأمن الدولي عطل إدانة الهجوم الإسرائيلي على سفن أسطول الحرية الذي كان يحمل مساعدات إنسانية إلى قطاع غزة.

وأضاف المراسل أن الولايات المتحدة عطلت مشروع البيان الرئاسي الذي تقدمت به تركيا بدعم عربي إلى مجلس الأمن بشأن الهجوم الإسرائيلي ورفضت إدانة إسرائيل، وعطلت مطالبة البيان بتحقيق مستقل في الهجوم خلال ثلاثين يوما.

وكانت تركيا قد وافقت على تخفيف لغة البيان ليكتفي بالإعراب عن الأسف للأرواح التي فقدت خلال الهجوم الإسرائيلي، كما تخلت عن مطالبة الأمم المتحدة بالتحقيق في الحادث.

وفي وقت سابق أجمعت بيانات أصدرها أعضاء المجلس قبل الجلسة على إدانة الهجوم الإسرائيلي والمطالبة برفع الحصار عن قطاع غزة. وقد كانت الجلسة مفتوحة لمدة ساعة ونصف، ثم أغلقت لمناقشة مشروع البيان.

ووصف مندوب مصر لدى الأمم المتحدة ماجد عبد الفتاح الذي كان يتحدث باسم حركة عدم الانحياز التي ترأسها بلاده، الهجوم الإسرائيلي بأنه “غير مبرر” وأنه “انتهاك صارخ للقانون الدولي”.

وطالب المندوب المصري في تصريح للصحفيين بنيويورك، إسرائيل بالإفراج فورا عن الركاب الذين كانوا على متن الأسطول والمحتجزين لديها وتعيدهم إلى أوطانهم، كما دعا إلى إجراء تحقيق “مستقل ونزيه” في الهجوم الإسرائيلي.

أوباما قال إن من الضروري معرفة
كل الحقائق عن الهجوم (رويترز)
توضيحات لأميركا
من جهته عبر الرئيس الأميركي باراك أوباما في مكالمة هاتفية مع رئيس الوزراء الإسرائيلي بنيامين نتنياهو عن أسفه العميق لسقوط قتلى في الهجوم.

وقال البيت الأبيض في بيان مقتضب إن أوباما عبر لنتنياهو عن ضرورة معرفة كل الحقائق والمعلومات عن هذا الهجوم في أقرب وقت ممكن.

وفي السياق أوضح وزير الدفاع الإسرائيلي إيهود باراك في مكالمة هاتفية مع وزيرة الخارجية الأميركية هيلاري كلينتون ومستشار الأمن القومي الأميركي جيمس جونز، ملابسات الهجوم.

وأكد بيان صادر عن مكتب باراك أنه اعتبر أن الهجوم الإسرائيلي على سفن الأسطول -والذي تم في المياه الدولية- ليس فيه أي خرق للقانون الدولي والقوانين البحرية.

واتهم البيان المتضامنين على متن إحدى سفن الأسطول بأنهم هاجموا الجنود الإسرائيليين بكل ما كانوا يملكون من أدوات وجرحوا بعضهم، وقال إن الجنود دافعوا عن أنفسهم.

وبدوره قال نتنياهو إن الجنود الإسرائيليين صعدوا إلى إحدى السفن من أجل التأكد من خلوها من السلاح، لكن ناشطين هاجموهم بالسكاكين والهري، حسب زعمه. وتابع “لقد ضربوهم وطعنوهم، وهناك تقرير حتى عن استخدام سلاح ناري”.

أردوغان وصف الهجوم الإسرائيلي
بأنه “إرهاب دولة” (الفرنسية)
إرهاب دولة
وفي وقت سابق من يوم أمس وصف رئيس الوزراء التركي رجب طيب أردوغان الهجوم الإسرائيلي على أسطول الحرية بأنه “إرهاب دولة”، وأكد وقوف بلاده إلى جانب المحاصرين في قطاع غزة.

وقال أردوغان في اتصال هاتفي مع قناة التركية العربية من تشيلي التي كان في زيارة رسمية لها قبل أن يقطعها ويعود إلى بلاده، إن القضية تدار من داخل تركيا أولا بأول، وإن هناك سلسلة من الاتصالات تجري بين أنقرة وعدد من الدول، بما فيها اتصال جرى مع الرئيس الفلسطيني محمود عباس.

ورفض المبررات التي سوغت بها إسرائيل مهاجمة قواتها لسفن الأسطول، وقال “أريد أن أقول للعالم ولرؤساء الدول والحكومات إن هذه السفن التي انطلقت من تركيا ومن دول أخرى تم تفتيشها بطريقة صحيحة وفقا لقوانين الملاحة الدولية، وقد كانت محملة بمساعدات إنسانية فقط، ولم يكن على متنها سوى متطوعين مدنيين”.

تنديد دولي
وقد لقي الهجوم الإسرائيلي تنديدا دوليا واسعا، حيث دعت المفوضة العليا للأمن والسياسة الخارجية للاتحاد الأوروبي كاثرين أشتون إسرائيل إلى إجراء تحقيق كامل في القضية، كما عقد سفراء الدول الأعضاء بالاتحاد اجتماعا طارئا لبحث الموقف.

وفي برلين أبلغت المستشارة الألمانية أنجيلا ميركل رئيسي وزراء إسرائيل وتركيا “قلقها الشديد” للهجوم على “أسطول الحرية”.

وصدرت إدانات للهجوم من الصين وروسيا، وأعرب بيان لوزارة الخارجية في موسكو عن “إدانتها وقلقها”، واعتبرت استخدام القوة المسلحة ضد المدنيين واحتجاز سفن في البحر المفتوح بدون مسوغ قانوني “انتهاكا واضحا للقانون الدولي”.

أما وزير الخارجية البرازيلي سيلسو أموريم فقد أدان بدوره الهجوم، وقال إن من كانوا على سفن الأسطول “أناس عزل ومسالمون ولم يكونوا يشكلون أي خطر”.

وأصدرت مفوضية الاتحاد الأفريقي بدورها بيانا عبرت فيه عن صدمتها العميقة بسبب الهجوم الدامي على قافلة المساعدات الإنسانية، وطالبت بالتحقيق لتحديد المسؤول عنه.

وكانت كل من اليونان والسويد وفرنسا والنمسا وإسبانيا التي تترأس الاتحاد الأوروبي، قد استدعت سفراء إسرائيل المعتمدين لديها لتقديم إيضاحات بشأن التصرف الإسرائيلي.

المصدر: الجزيرة + وكالات

May 31st, 2010, 10:54 pm


Husam said:

Alex, Joshua:

SC has been selective in its moderation. And, please don’t try to hide this fact. AP has bombarded SC with repetitive B.S. day in day out, and despite the majority of contributors here calling on both of you to do something about it, instead you chose to ban Ghat. Why “only” Ghat and why now?

I wrote 2 weeks ago regarding blasphemy, it fell on deaf ears.

Fares said:

“Keep dreaming and praying for god to shit out a country called Palestine.. ”

So you allowed this comment (#236598) to appear and did nothing when it was brought to your attention. So God takes dumps…and his bowel movement is Palestine…meaning Palestinians are Kaka. This racism a la max with graphics and blasphemy all in one.

Why don’t you ban Fares for one month or two?

What I am asking is: What’s your formula? I can’t seem to figure it out.

May 31st, 2010, 10:58 pm


Alex said:


I was not here last week, I was busy taking care of few things at

Can you get me the link to this comment you are referring to? .. I will remove it.

“Fares” will be banned if he writes in this style again.

But I don’t think Joshua is being selective. He asked Ghat many times to try to change his focus.

We have two representatives of right wing Israel .. Amir and Akbar … They represent the views of the majority in Israel, we can not ban them if we do not like their opinions. What kind of discussion would you get if everyone here agrees on everything?

May 31st, 2010, 11:17 pm


Husam said:


Joshua said:

“Ziad, I do not like to ban people. But I also do not like the comment section of SC becoming a yelling match and race to the lowest common denominator. i have banned a number of Pro-Israeli types, who were quite civil but disciplined hasbara machines that spat out the party line with wearying regularity and frequency, provoking readers just enough to dominate the comment section. Everyone lost interest for good reason. Nothing new was ever said. Discussion ceased. Flaming dominated.”

Alex, again what is the formula? It has nothing to do with opinion of right wing Israelis, professional paid bloggers if I may add, whom you are advocating we need and everything to do with “repetitiveness” and race as lowest of low as per Joshua. Neither Amir’s nor Almasri’s hands are clean about racism…So why ONLY Ghat? I don’t want to hear about 2 years ago…Perhaps Josh can speak for himself on that.

Here is the link you asked for:

P.S. I don’t agree with what Shai said today and a discussion was warranted in a respectable fashion between Shai and others. I understand you need diversity of opinions, but we shouldn’t pay the price of sifting through B.S. regardless of whom its coming from. EIther you let it all in or you ban it….it can not be selective.

May 31st, 2010, 11:58 pm


Shai said:

Jad, Norman,

I absolutely and unequivocally condemn the Israeli raid on the Turkish Flotilla. I’m sorry if that message did not come clearer through my earlier comments.

June 1st, 2010, 12:21 am


jad said:

Thank you for being who you are, a respectful Israeli.
I want you to know that I wasn’t chalengimg you, my point was to show that even the peace advocate camp are pushed aside and they become selecrive in the word they use, this is why I asked you What changed?
I beleive that if we want to change this ugly reality we live in, we can’t let those who speakes the language of hate and war to become louder than the language of humanity, we must be loud and clear in our disagreement with those who spread evil and distruction among us otherwise we are doing nothing.
Please Shai, don’t compromise what you believe in for anyone and anything, the price is too high, it’s our humanity and our children’s future.
Thank you.

June 1st, 2010, 2:09 am


Joshua said:


You write to say that I am not fair in banning Ghat alone. “Neither Amir’s nor Almasri’s hands are clean about racism…So why ONLY Ghat? I don’t want to hear about 2 years ago…Perhaps Josh can speak for himself on that.”

You are correct that I have been arbitrary. I should also have banned almasri and Amir, as well as Fares, as you point out. I will try to pay greater attention. They will also be asked to leave the comment section if they persist in the name calling and repetitive provocations that diminish the comment section.

I wish I had more hours in my day to devote to moderating the comment section. My family left for Syria yesterday and I am trying to write other things than SC. I wish I could rely on everyone here to temper their anger and rein in their passions, even when they are being intentionally provoked.

Let us simply try to remain informative, by bringing new content to the forum.

I apologize for the inconsistencies in my moderation.

Sincerely, Joshua

June 1st, 2010, 9:20 am


Husam said:

Norman, Jad, WD:

Shai by far is the most level-headed person I know who also happens to be an Israeli. I would love to meet this guy one day…somewhere in the Golan area and have some tea.


June 1st, 2010, 3:40 pm


Husam said:


Thank you for taking the time to reply. I understand that you wear too many hats and you time is limited. My intention was to have fair play and equality for everyone.

June 1st, 2010, 3:44 pm


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