Syria accuses U.S. in deadly helicopter attack - Syria Comment

Syria accuses U.S. in deadly helicopter attack

Addendum: This report was just sent by a reader (6:30 p.m. central time, Sunday):

Joshua and all,

I just spoke on the phone with a doctor in ABou Kamal- He confirmed that the attack happened around sunset. The 4 helicopters came from the East of the township, he saw them coming. The soldiers debarked and shot people who were working in a building under construction on the periphery of the township.

9 people were pronounced dead on arrival to the hospital- Two more are severely wounded and are being operated on right now [he does not expect them to survive]- He has not read the papers (there are none to read at this time of the night) nor listened to the news and there is no internet there….His report was completely spontaneous-

I was not able to get the details on the ages of the injured but he described them as poor simple people (Masakeen)from the town. If the matter were otherwise, he would have let me know.

[Landis analysis] The Bush administration seems to be ratcheting up action against Syria during its last days in power. The cross border raid undertaken on Sunday, which killed eight people, seems to fit into a broader pattern of the Bush administration initiating cross boarder attacks into countries that it is not officially at war with. The recent attacks in Northwest Pakistan are a case in point.

In late 2007 then-Coalition commander General David Petraeus praised Syria’s cooperation in reducing violence in Iraq; “Syria has taken steps to reduce the flow of the foreign fighters through its borders with Iraq” (VOA, December 6, 2007). Iraqi President Jalal Talabani told US President George W. Bush last month that Iran and Syria — long targets of US blame over the deadly unrest in Iraq — no longer pose a problem.

Syria, however, has refused to restart intelligence sharing with the US, which was broken off following the deterioration of relations in 2005. Petraeus sought to go to Damascus in December 2007 to restart intelligence sharing, but was forbidden from doing so by the White House.

Syria has been eager to restart intelligence sharing which would help to reduce cross border violations, but it demands a price – that the US recognize Syria’s assistance by returning an ambassador to Damascus. The White House has refused to do this, preferring to use sticks to force Syrian compliance. One must presume that the most recent killing of Syrians is designed to be just such a stick.

It will, of course, not force compliance, but the Bush administration must assume that an Obama victory on November 4 will force Syria to behave nicely in order to win favor with the new administration. Thus, White House analysts may assume that it can have a ‘freebee” — taking a bit of personal revenge on Syria without the US paying a price. Damascus may just have to write it off as a good bye salute from its friends in Washington.

[End of Analysis]

Ian Black and Ewen MacAskill in the Guardian, “Washington admitted it had targeted “foreign fighters.”

In Washington an unnamed military official told the Associated Press the raid had targeted elements of a “foreign fighter logistics network”, and that, due to Syrian inaction, the US was “taking matters into our own hands”. It was the first known American attack on Syrian soil.

Intriguingly, Farhan al-Mahalawi, mayor of the nearby Iraqi border town of Qaim, told the Reuters news agency that the targeted village had been surrounded by Syrian troops.

… Joshua Landis, an American expert on Syria, commented last night: “The Bush administration must assume that an Obama victory will force Syria to behave nicely in order to win favour with the new administration. Thus White House analysts may assume that it can have a “freebee” – taking a bit of personal revenge on Syria without the US paying a price.”

A warning Syria’s President Assad must heed,” By

…. While US commanders may have calculated that a cross-border raid was tactically necessary to tackle Islamist extremists using Syrian territory, the attack also sent a tough strategic message to Syria that it is not inviolate and must choose carefully whom it supports.

AMERICAN STRIKE ON SYRIA: A GIFT FROM CHENEY TO MCCAIN? , by Marc Gopin

… We are closer than ever before to serious conversations between Israel and Syria, Syria has recognized an international border with Lebanon for the first time in modern history, and this is horrifying to neoconservatives who ran Washington for the last decade. They need to use force and force only to conquer Iraq, Iran and Syria. And they need to promote a conception of the American presidency that is focused on the use of military force.

Syria accuses U.S. in deadly helicopter attack, CNN)

The U.S. military said it is investigating claims from Syria that U.S. helicopters based in Iraq killed eight people and wounded another Sunday in an attack inside Syria’s territory Sunday.

Syria’s state news agency SANA said four U.S. helicopters crossed the border and struck a farm about 5 miles inside Syria before returning to Iraqi airspace.

The raid occurred about 4:45 p.m. The helicopters hit a civilian building under construction on the farm, killing killing three men, the wife of a guard and four children, SANA said.

Military officials are investigating the claims, Sgt. Brooke Murphy, a U.S. military spokeswoman, told CNN. “Unfortunately, we cannot confirm anything at the moment,” she said.

The attack occurred near the town of Al-Bukamal, which is home to a Red Crescent camp for Iraqi refugees. The town is across the border from the Iraqi city of Qaim, which has been a major route for Sunni Arab fighters battling U.S. troops in Iraq.

“We still have a certain level of foreign fighter movement, not much, through Anbar, because of our activities out there,” Kelly said. But he said Iraqi intelligence believes al Qaeda operatives and others “live pretty openly on the Syrian side, and periodically we know that they try to come across.”

Syria demanded Iraq’s government “immediately investigate this serious violation” and bar U.S. forces from striking Syria from its territory. The Syrian government summoned U.S. and Iraqi diplomats to the Foreign Ministry in Damascus to condemn the attack, SANA reported

AFP REPORTS:

“American soldiers” who had emerged from helicopters “attacked a civilian building under construction and fired at workmen inside, causing eight deaths,”

Iraqi President Jalal Talabani told US President George W. Bush last month that Iran and Syria — long targets of US blame over the deadly unrest in Iraq — no longer pose a problem.

Iraqi officials have also said that Syria has been boosting border security.

Syria’s first ambassador to Iraq in 26 years took up his post in Baghdad this month, marking the official end of more than two decades of icy relations.

On September 28 US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice confirmed she had met her Syrian counterpart, Walid Muallem, to discuss Middle East peace efforts despite renewed criticism from Washington over Syrian policies.

Their talks came after Bush slammed Syria in his farewell address to the UN General Assembly. “A few nations — regimes like Syria and Iran — continue to sponsor terror,” he charged.

Syria: US choppers attack village near Iraq border
By ALBERT AJI, AP, Sunday, October 26, 2008; 3:31 PM

DAMASCUS, Syria — U.S. military helicopters attacked an area along Syria’s border with Iraq Sunday, killing eight people, the Syrian government said.

The Syrian report comes just days after the commander of U.S. forces in western Iraq told reporters that American troops were redoubling efforts to secure the Syrian border, which he said was an “uncontrolled” gateway for fighters entering Iraq.

A government statement carried by the official Syrian Arab News Agency said Sunday’s attack was on the Sukkariyeh Farm near the town of Abu Kamal, five miles inside the Syrian border. Four helicopters attacked a civilian building under construction, firing on the workers inside, shortly before sundown, the statement said. The U.S. military in Baghdad did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The area is near the Iraqi border city of Qaim, which had been a major crossing point for fighters, weapons and money coming into Iraq to fuel the Sunni insurgency.

Iraqi insurgents seized Qaim in April 2005, forcing U.S. Marines to recapture the town the following month in heavy fighting. The area became secure only after Sunni tribes in Anbar turned against al-Qaida in late 2006 and joined forces with the Americans.

On Thursday, U.S. Maj. Gen. John Kelly said Iraq’s western borders with Saudi Arabia and Jordan were fairly tight as a result of good policing by security forces in those countries but that Syria was a “different story.”

“The Syrian side is, I guess, uncontrolled by their side,” Kelly said. “We still have a certain level of foreign fighter movement.”

He added that the U.S. was helping construct a sand berm and ditches along the border.

“There hasn’t been much, in the way of a physical barrier, along that border for years,” Kelly said.

Marc Gopin, AMERICAN STRIKE ON SYRIA: A GIFT FROM CHENEY TO MCCAIN? … After years of scrupulously avoiding crossing into Syrian territory, the American military receives instructions to invade a town in Syria and kill 8 people.

A U.S. military official confirmed late Sunday an American helicopter attack in an area along Syria’s border with Iraq, which left 8 people dead and three people wounded.

Syria condemned the attack, which it called “serious aggression.”

We are closer than ever before to serious conversations between Israel and Syria, Syria has recognized an international border with Lebanon for the first time in modern history, and this is horrifying to neoconservatives who ran Washington for the last decade. They need to use force and force only to conquer Iraq, Iran and Syria. And they need to promote a conception of the American presidency that is focused on the use of military force. It is vital to their conception of American hegemony.

Comments (53)


Brad said:

Landis, You are not going to succeed covering up for Syrian terrorism. Your analysis doesn’t hold much water. Syria has been the route of terrorism to all neighboring countries i.e. Iraq, Jordan, Israel, Lebanon and Turkey. The US does not negotiate with terrorists nor with those who support them (you included). In fact, you are a shame on America.

October 26th, 2008, 10:13 pm

 

abraham said:

Just one more war crime to record in our notebooks.

Tick tock tick tock tick tock…

October 26th, 2008, 10:48 pm

 

norman said:

Dear Joshua,

Do you think that the Bush administration is trying to start a crises to help Mccain win the election , I would not be surprised , Syria has to be careful not to give him a chance .

October 26th, 2008, 11:22 pm

 

Alia said:

Joshua and all,

I just spoke on the phone with a doctor in ABou Kamal- He confirmed that the attack happened around sunset. The 4 helicopters came from the East of the township, he saw them coming. The soldiers debarked and shot people who were working in a building under construction on the periphery of the township.

9 people were pronounced dead on arrival to the hospital- Two more are severely wounded and are being operated on right now [he does not expect them to survive]- He has not read the papers (there are none to read at this time of the night) nor listened to the news and there is no internet there….His report was completely spontaneous-

I was not able to get the details on the ages of the injured but he described them as poor simple people (Masakeen)from the town. If the matter were otherwise, he would have let me know.

October 26th, 2008, 11:30 pm

 

SimoHurtta said:

And these “democracy” and free trade socialists of Washington condemned Russia for not respecting the sovereignty of Georgia. What makes me wonder that US military knows so much what is happening behind the borders of their new colonies but is totally incapable to establish a border control if it is a question of those mythical foreign fighters and Al Qaida.

Well one reason for this astonishing escalation could be that US troops in Iraq need fast a new “home” now when Iraqis are kicking out of Iraq. It is cheaper to move them to Syria as bring them back to USA. Let’s hope that Syria stays calm and doesn’t offer any excuse for USA to “liberate” them and find those “Hizbollah WMD’s”. The way USA is recently escalating the chaos around Iraq and Afghanistan can’t be unplanned.

October 26th, 2008, 11:47 pm

 

norman said:

I think Syria should take forign journalists to the site and to visit the wounded early morning to show the world the truth.

October 27th, 2008, 12:05 am

 

nur al-Cubicle said:

what.the.hell? This was approved at the highest levels of US government.

October 27th, 2008, 1:10 am

 

Donklephant » Blog Archive » US Launches Attack Inside Syria said:

[…] Joshua Landis gets this email from a reader who spoke to someone on the […]

October 27th, 2008, 1:19 am

 

Brian said:

What would you say would be the gain for the U.S. Gov’t to transparently murder civilians? This smells. We may murder civilians by accident. But please tell us what the Gov’t would gain by doing it on purpose.

October 27th, 2008, 1:27 am

 

nur al-Cubicle said:

Map of sovereignty violation:

http://tinyurl.com/attackmap

October 27th, 2008, 1:33 am

 

Solomon2 said:

Why would the U.S. military bother to land troops if all they wanted to do was kill Al Qaida and destroy a hide-out? Why a raid rather than a precision airstrike?

October 27th, 2008, 1:45 am

 
 

Apollodorus said:

I hope that president Bashar Asad is not dreaming to remain in power until he dies in order that his son or brother inherit the power from him.
The political reforms of Bashar will be useless if he thinks in this sectarian family way.
The best situation for Syria ,is that Bashar presidency would be changed thought electoral democratic process.

I think president Bashar must convince himself ,that my aims is not to die as president of Syria…otherwise ,other eventualities can only bring chaos to Syria.
Change from a family regime to the civil society logic is the best that what Syria can hope for a pacific transition.
We need Michel Kilo and friends ,Michel Kilo did nothing wrong to deserve Prison why is he still there?

October 27th, 2008, 3:04 am

 

why-discuss said:

The elusive military pact between US and Iraq is , in my point of you, the background of this US mishaps.
I believe many iraqis (and/or iranians) who do not want this pact may have setup a trap for the US army to discredit itself to the eyes of the iraqi and make this pact even more unacceptable.
I wouln’t be surprised that double agents (elegantly called intelligence) on the Syrian side were behind this US army blunder.

October 27th, 2008, 3:46 am

 

Brad said:

Informed sources have revealed that when the Charge d’Affair of the US in Damascus was summoned by Mouallem (Syrian foreign minister) in order to protest the American raid inside Syria, the US charge d’affair gave Mouallem an ultimate which he asked him to relay to Bashar who currently uses Assad as his last name. The US Charge d’Affair told Mouallem that the US will no longer tolerate the use of provocative names such as Assad , Nimr or Jamal. The Charge D’affair ordered Mouallem to inform Bashar that he has a choice to call himself Rat, Mouse or Cat. Mouallem was further told that failure to comply with such request will result in further raids that will bring devastations of unprecedented magnitudes to Syria. According to the sources, Bashar himself may become a target of such raids unless he immediately uses one of the names that make the US feel comfortable.

October 27th, 2008, 4:11 am

 

jad said:

Some comments here are from someone who is either stupid or super stupid either way, you must be proud of what you write.. and If you are American, you really should feel great of what your army did, something to be proud of! killing a whole family 4 kids with their parents and two other civilian poor men on the side, what an achievement!?

October 27th, 2008, 6:57 am

 

offended said:

“The Charge D’affair ordered Mouallem to inform Bashar that he has a choice to call himself Rat, Mouse or Cat.”

Is this language acceptable here?

October 27th, 2008, 7:01 am

 

Alex said:

Offended, Jad,

I was hoping no one will pay attention to him : )

October 27th, 2008, 7:06 am

 

kooki said:

Dear Brad,
We are all trying to ignore your remarks, which are out of keeping with a serious discussion site at a very tense time. Just in case anyone is in any doubt as to your credibility, I would like to point out that the American charge d’affaires is a woman, (not a man.)

October 27th, 2008, 7:45 am

 

offended said:

Some people aren’t prepared to believe that americans could have done this for 100 different reasons other than pounding insurgents. you fail to impart your fellow human beings the right to get fair treatment, to get the benefit of the doubt: in other words; if the american were suspecious of them, they should have asked the cooperation of the syrians. that’s the international law for you. America has no business killing people on the soverigen lands of other country, even if they are strong suspects. Their job is to be watchful of the borders, and inform the syrians if there’s something wrong.

and what’s more, they are the fucking occupiers from the first place!!!!!!!!

October 27th, 2008, 8:59 am

 

not my room » U.S. intrusion into Syrian territory said:

[…] with Syria. What is more, they are using this advantage to resolve some of the issues they had previously refused to resolve in cooperation with Syria. With a good level of certainly one might say that no previous American […]

October 27th, 2008, 9:32 am

 

AIG said:

Offended,

First, if the Americans actually killed civillians and did not attack a military or terrorist target, they have a lot of explaining to do.

As for giving the Asad regime the benefit of the doubt, that is the worst case of double standards that I have ever seen. Syria just loves creating problems in neighboring countries, but you get on your high horse when the chickens come home to roost. If the Syrians are not comfortable with people destabilizing their country, they should not destabilize other countries. Lead by example and then maybe you could invoke things such as international law. My view about this is simple, since Syria does not care one iota about international law and just acts according to its interests, why do you get angry when other countries do the same?

October 27th, 2008, 10:15 am

 

Qifa Nabki said:

Something doesn’t add up…

Then again, very few of the security-related news items coming out of Syria over the past few years do.

October 27th, 2008, 11:30 am

 

SimoHurtta said:

In LA Times
Military units in Iraq have focused on shutting down the “rat lines” that shuttled militants from the Syrian border to the city of Ramadi and on to Baghdad.

This month Gen. David H. Petraeus, the former top commander in Iraq, said those efforts had helped cut the number of foreign fighters crossing the Syrian border from about 100 to 20 a month. But he made it clear that more needed to be done.

20 “foreign fighters” per month???? That is 240 men in a year. Hardly a problem for the mighty US army. From where does Petraeus know that figure. Considered the tens (if not hundreds) of thousands who cross the Iraq-Syria border monthly it is an amassing achievement to be able to count the amount of “foreign fighters” and not arresting them. Also considering that now most of Iraq is now under Iraqi responsibility in security matters it rather difficult to understand the logic of this attack. Also USA has not identified the target of this raid, which it does almost every time with the numerous Pakistan raids.

It would be interesting to know did USA have Iraq’s government’s approval beforehand for the cross border raid. Most certainly not.

AIG, one thing is certain that Israel and USA violate the international laws many times more often than Syria has managed. Actually I do not know what internationals Syria is claimed not to obey. Maybe AIG you could enlighten us with the matter. By the way AIG why hasn’t USA closed the Syria Iraq border if it is so dangerous? USA delivers Iraq the border control “service”. Can USA on the other hand guaranty that the PKK guys do not enter Turkey? No it can’t.

It could also be asked why do Americans bother to make these raids now when they will be kicked out of Iraq in a couple months. As Powell said five years ago USA will leave Iraq when Iraqis want that. Now when Iraqis want that it is interesting to see was Powell “honest”.

Bush’s little boys in Irag: U.S. threatens to halt services unless Iraq OKs troop accord
What is amusing is that most of the services are such that USA doesn’t allow Iraqis to do. Before Iraqis could handle such jobs easily.

October 27th, 2008, 11:34 am

 

offended said:

AIG,

Where are all the evidence that Syria is the one creating all the problems in the middle east? I mean, could we Syrians really pull it that smart?: ‘destabilizing’ all neighboring countries and getting away with it? Where are the hard evidence my friend? it’s either that Syria is bunch of brilliant geniuses or you’re a dumb jarhead who can’t find his asshole even if given a mirror on a stick.

October 27th, 2008, 11:36 am

 

Murphy said:

“If the Syrians are not comfortable with people destabilizing their country, they should not destabilize other countries. Lead by example and then maybe you could invoke things such as international law.”

Ho ho!!!! An Israeli apologist for US war crimes dares to lecture others on ‘international law’ and ‘destabilising other countries’. Whatever next? An Israeli getting all high and mighty about the inviolability of borders? Oh wait, we get that all the time….

And yet you can’t see what all the world sees: the last, dsperate act of a defeated regime which has destroyed every single thing it has come into contact with. It’s true what they say: a dying empire is a horrid thing to behold.

October 27th, 2008, 11:38 am

 

ghassan said:

I hope that Syrian’s statement that it “will respond at the right time and place” will come true very soon and I hope that it will not be in Lebanon.

I agree with the suggestion from one of the readers by taking foreign correspondants to the site to take photos and file accurate reports instead of just repeating the official media.

October 27th, 2008, 11:43 am

 

AIG said:

Offended,
You are making a fool of yourself.
Syria prides itself in its ability to influence the Arab street and its support of what you call “resistance” and I call terrorism.

Why are Europe and the US sanctioning Syria? Because it is led by a terrorist regime. It hosted Mugniyeh, a terrorist wanted in 100 countries. It allows Hizballah to smuggle weapons into Lebanon and its supports Hamas and its suicide bombers. The regime can track and suppress every single democracy advocate but has “problems” keeping track of jihadists in Damascus sending suicide bombers to Iraq.

If the truth hit you on the head you would still be first in line to cheer your hero Bashar and his wonderful regional policies.

And what histerics! The Syrians have no problems using brute force against weaker opponents but how they change their language and become believers in “international law” when confronted by a stronger opponent. The ultimate hypocrites. This is the essence of being a lion in Lebanon and a mouse in the Golan and on the Iraqi border.

Stop complaining and do you worst. We know of course that it will only be the Lebanese that will suffer. That is the Syrian method.

October 27th, 2008, 2:43 pm

 

Murphy said:

“This is the essence of being a lion in Lebanon and a mouse in the Golan and on the Iraqi border.”

You mean, a bit like those gum-chewing Russian dudes who think they’re big heroes riding around refugee camps in heavily armoured tanks, and yet who ran home to their mummies the second they faced a genuine opponent in Hizballah?

I mean, for a true modern day hero, a true model of valour and fortitude to be emulated by young boys worldwide, what country could do better than this? http://www.guerraeterna.com/archives/Gilad_Shalit.jpg

October 27th, 2008, 3:06 pm

 

Grand Trunk Road » sovereignty part II said:

[…] from the blog Syria Comment: 1. Brad said: Landis, You are not going to succeed covering up for Syrian terrorism. Your […]

October 27th, 2008, 3:40 pm

 

Anis said:

I think this was Bush’s last chance to open the Syrian front for war before he departs from office; he wanted it for many years but never could pursue it.
With this attack Bush is adding more to the problems that his successor will have to deal with.
This attack also tells that the US government with its arrogant attitude is pursuing its already failing agenda until the last minute regardless of the damage that it could cause to the US position as a world leader and the rising hate against the US government and its foreign policy.
From the economical point of view, this could be also a move to raise oil prices which have been going very low.

October 27th, 2008, 3:45 pm

 

offended said:

AIG,

These kind of occasions and the kind of commentaries that follow from your side regarding them; they just blow your cover and show you for the real savage you are. There is a simple question of international law here: did the American military have the right to venture into the Syrian territories and kill people?

NO. Period.

They didn’t even bag any of those so called ‘insurgent’ for a later dog-and-ponny press conference. This is an outrageous breach of every sane moral code. What are you comparing this event to? Is your unleashing your wrath against civilians the kind of proper retribution you have for Syria for its support of Hizbollah? I am not discounting the fact that your perspective is even biased by your zionist grudge against Syria and its support of the just causes of the Lebanese and the Palestinian people. You want to retaliate for that? be my guest and fight the Hamasi and Hezbo fighters like real fighters do.

You sir is one racist pig who has absolutely no regards for human life and take advantage of such events to spew hatred and bitterness everyway your dirty tongue could move.

October 27th, 2008, 5:13 pm

 

AIG said:

Offended,
You do not have any moral standing or the required knowledge to even utter the words “international law”. You come from a country that does not respect human rights when it comes to its own citizens but when it can it hypocritically cries “international law” as if it is something it believes in.

Look, you are basically just like the criminals who find religion in jail. Practice what you preach and then maybe you will have the right to complain about “international law”.

The Syrian regime is a dictatorship that imposes its will on the population by force. It oppresses all democratic movements in Syria. Yet, it dares complain about “international law”. Pathetic.

Make sure international law is practiced by Syria first or shut up. No one has patience for hypocrites who judge others by standards they don’t adhere to.

October 27th, 2008, 5:33 pm

 

offended said:

AIG, let me get that straight, are you saying that Syrian people deserve to die because the Syrian ‘regime’ doesn’t practice human rights up to your standards?

You’re stupid by the way; the oxymoron in your reasoning couldn’t get clearer and more outrageous….

October 27th, 2008, 5:46 pm

 

AIG said:

Offended,
Of course not. But they can complain only to one entity – their government. If you don’t understand how ridiculous complaining about “human rights” is while supporting the regime in Syria, I really can’t help you. Interacting with you, I understand better why Syria is such a failure as a state.

October 27th, 2008, 6:10 pm

 

Shai said:

AIG,

It is well known that drug trafficking is taking place in all directions along Israel’s borders (mostly through the Lebanese and Egyptian borders). Let’s assume tomorrow evening, 4 Syrian helicopters enter Israeli airspace, drop 8 Syrian commandos near a small settlement on the Golan, and kill 9 people it claims are participating in bringing drugs into Syria.

How would Israel react?

October 27th, 2008, 7:53 pm

 

offended said:

AIG, so you are saying that if these civilians that were killed were supporters of the regime then they indeed deserved to be killed?

October 27th, 2008, 9:05 pm

 

Shai said:

Offended,

Did you ever see “Deliverance” (Burt Reynolds, back in the 70’s)? There’s a wonderful and very famous banjo duel there. Sometimes, when I read some of the comments here (won’t mention by whom), I hear that music in the background… 🙂

October 27th, 2008, 9:10 pm

 

Dar said:

This attack shows just how contemptible and low the Bush
administration is, in that rather than spending its last
few months quietly, it decided it wants to make life even
more miserable for the next President.

It’s almost like Bush decided “f**k it! If I’m going to be
hated, I might as well be really hated!”.

October 27th, 2008, 9:16 pm

 

AIG said:

Shai,
The example you give is patently wrong. How would you feel if the Israeli government knew about a house in a neigboring country from where someone on a regular basis sends suicide bombers into Israel and after the appropriate government refuses to do something about it, the Israeli government would just let it go? You would DEMAND that Israel attack the house and the perpertrator.

If the Syrians want to stop such attacks, they should do something about their Al-Qaida terrorists instead of letting them work freely in Syria.

October 28th, 2008, 12:26 am

 

AIG said:

Offended,
I am not saying civillians deserved to be killed. I very much wish that no civillian would be injured. All I am saying is that if the Syrian regime fights a war using terrorism, then it should expect collateral damage when terrorists are attacked. The Syrian government is fighting the Americans in Iraq by supporting Al-Qaida terror cells in Syria. Therefore, Syrians should complain to their government if they do not like the consequences of that. It is really quite simple.

I am also saying that you look extra ridiculous when you support the oppressive and terrorist Syrian regime while giving any argument involving the terms “international law”.

October 28th, 2008, 12:32 am

 

Alex said:

AIG, Offended,

I won’t remove the above comments, but from now on, if I see any “stupid” and “pig” and “a fool” I am deleting ALL your comments.

AIG … do you know how to count? … 6 comments per day.

Again, starting tomorrow I will erase all your comments if you exceed 6 per day.

October 28th, 2008, 4:06 am

 

Shai said:

AIG,

I don’t know who those 9 people were, and quite frankly, neither do you! But we both agree that the U.S. violated Syrian airspace, took matters into their own hands, and killed people. Did the U.S. share intelligence with Syria about these people? Did they give Syria a chance to do something? No. (If they had, I imagine the U.S. spokesman would have said “We told Syria about them, and they did nothing…”) As much as we’d love to just go-in-there and whoop anyone’s ass, there ARE international rules to be followed. It doesn’t seem like the U.S. followed any in this case. I know you’re fond of dismissing examples when it comes to the opposite-case, if it had happened to Israel, but that’s part of understanding the event from the receiver’s end. I’m not sympathizing with terrorists operating out of Syria (though i’m sure you’ll say I justify their action), but the U.S. just cannot do whatever it wants to, whenever it feels like it.

You said: “What we know so far is that the Syrians are lying.” That’s a pretty strong claim, don’t you think? You already KNOW they’re lying? As someone who’s generally quite stubborn, I’m surprised you are convinced so quickly and so easily, a mere 24 hours after the event (which took place thousands of miles from you). It almost seems like you’ve got an agenda… 😉

October 28th, 2008, 4:49 am

 

AIG said:

Shai,
The AP reporter was at the funeral. He saw 7 bodies of men. No women, no children. Why shouldn’t I believe the reporter? The Syrians are simply lying.

So Shai, what Israel did in getting back its hostages from Entebe was not justifed because Israel did not follow “international law”? Israel violated the sovereignity of Uganda and killed Ugandan citizens. It acted against “international law”. Yet Israel was of course justified (except to you). So was the US in attacking the Al-Qaida operative in Syria. If a foreign country won’t take care of terrorists, it loses its rights to sovereignity. Most people with common sense understand that.

To me it seems you have an anti-Israel agenda and that what is obvious to most Israelis is not obvious to you.

October 28th, 2008, 5:04 am

 

Shai said:

AIG,

If Israel had not given Idi Amin a chance to release those hostages, of course I would be against the raid in Entebbe. I am proud of that raid, dearest AIG, because we DID give Uganda and its leader all the chances in the world. In fact, we made the case to the ENTIRE world, before we decided to go in. One of my good friends participated in that raid, AIG, and thankfully he was not hurt (as we know, only one Israeli was killed – Bibi’s brother).

If I had an anti-Israel agenda, I’d be living in the safe harbors of the U.S., like you are. I can do so at any time, yet I choose to live and raise my children here. Criticizing the hell out of your nation, when you see it leading you down to Hell for decades, does not make you un-Patriotic. I’m not sure if NOT criticizing does. Thanks for the attempt in any case.

October 28th, 2008, 5:23 am

 

AIG said:

Shai,
Petraeus went to Syria and as Landis said “read them the riot act”. They did not stop harboring terrorists. The US gave Syria every chance and waited many months before acting. The US also made many public remarks about Syria to the international community. This case is exactly like Entebe, so why are you for Entebe and against what the Americans did in Syria?

Let me tell you why, it is because you have an anti-Israel agenda on this blog and you are constantly trying to appease and explain terrorist actions.

October 28th, 2008, 5:31 am

 

Shai said:

AIG,

Your insistence on my anti-Israel agenda is pathetic. My wife, kids, mother, uncle, aunt, cousins, are all American. I can live in America happily-ever-after, earn much more money, raise my children in a far safer environment, and face moral issues like electing a Hockey-mom instead of Occupation, subjugation, and suffocation of another people for over 40 years. And yet I’m here. I serve my country like any other patriotic Israeli does. But asides from laying in ambushes, and patrolling the streets of Gaza, I also know how to criticize my country when need be. And, God knows, a lot of criticism is due.

I am proud of Israel, and ashamed of it at the same time. I am proud of our achievements, and of the values we once had. I am ashamed of our crimes, of the values we seem to have adopted. I am here, in Israel, trying to contribute my two-cents worth, in many ways. If I thought I’d be good at it, I’d run for politics. But I’m not good at it. I don’t know how to tell people I think are idiots that they’re smart. I don’t know how to compromise on certain things, like the Occupation. I would make a lot of enemies, because I tend to tell people the truth (as I see it), also to their faces, not behind their backs, in quiet “cabinet” meetings.

Yes, I do tend to blast Israel on SC much more than condone it. And asides from demonstrating honesty and moral courage, I’m also attempting to show our fellow bloggers that there are Israelis who do see the evils of our country, and who do want to change them. I want Syrians and Lebanese and Palestinians here to hear other views, coming straight out of Israel, not only America. And you know what the funny thing is, I have yet to find an Arab who’d say I’m being unpatriotic. In face, quite a few Arabs on SC have called me a patriotic Israeli, precisely because I am able to criticize my own country. A patriot, AIG, is also someone who constantly wants to change his nation for the better, not only one who only constantly pats his own back. My agenda is to fix my country. I am neither anti-Israel, nor pro-Israel. I’m IN Israel, and I’m doing what I can.

I hope I won’t need to explain my patriotism again, AIG. But do be aware that patriots don’t all look alike, nor sound the same.

October 28th, 2008, 6:51 am

 

Shai said:

Here’s a link I received from a Republican friend of mine:
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/

An unpatriotic Republican? No, a VERY patriotic, and honest, Republican.

October 28th, 2008, 7:35 am

 

offended said:

Dearest Shai, I haven’t seen the movie deliverance. I wasn’t even born until the last year of the 70s. : ) But I know what you mean, that same guy’s comments evoke lots of unsavory sounds and scents in my mind when I read them. 🙂

October 28th, 2008, 12:08 pm

 

brian said:

”It will, of course, not force compliance, but the Bush administration must assume that an Obama victory on November 4 will force Syria to behave nicely in order to win favor with the new administration”

I hope the syrians have the integrity to not suck up to any US administration! Win favor??? You speak as if the US prsident is an emperor and syrias president a vassal….that may be true in Iraq…

October 28th, 2008, 1:24 pm

 

brian said:

AIG:
”I am saying is that if the Syrian regime fights a war using terrorism, then it should expect collateral damage when terrorists are attacked. ‘

Syria is not fighting a war uysing terrorism or anything else…the US IS fighting war using the war-on-terrorism”trademark smokescren to justify any atrocity it chooses to commit.

Hope this clarifies your confusion.

October 28th, 2008, 1:28 pm

 

Whitehouse On Best Political Blogs » Syria accuses US in deadly helicopter attack said:

[…] Syria accuses US in deadly helicopter attack Thus, White House analysts may assume that it can have a ‘freebe” — taking a bit of personal revenge on Syria without the US paying a price. Damascus may just have to write it off as a good bye salute from its friends in Washington. … […]

October 29th, 2008, 2:47 pm

 

Report: US choppers attack Syrian town + videos (updated) « Dandelion Salad said:

[…] via Syria Comment » Archives » Syria accuses U.S. in deadly helicopter attack […]

December 11th, 2008, 8:37 am

 

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