"The Street Will Wash Them Away," Amb. Ford - Biggest Demonstrations So Far: Friday 15 July 2011 - Syria Comment

“The Street Will Wash Them Away,” Amb. Ford – Biggest Demonstrations So Far: Friday 15 July 2011

“I have seen no evidence yet in terms of hard changes on the ground that the Syrian government is willing to reform at anything like the speed demanded by the street protestors. If it doesn’t start moving with far greater alacrity, the street will wash them away.” That was the blunt verdict offered by U.S. Ambassador Robert Ford in a wide-ranging telephone interview with Foreign Policy today.

Ambassador Ford

Syrians mount biggest protests so far, 20 killed – By Khaled Oweis | Reuters

“These are the biggest demonstrations so far. It is a clear challenge to the authorities, especially when we see all these numbers coming out from Damascus for the first time,” said Rami Abdelrahman, head of the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights….

At least 350,000 people demonstrated in the eastern province of Deir al Zor, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said. Syrian forces shot dead two pro-democracy protesters there on Thursday, residents said. …

Syria’s main ally, Iran, is considering offering $5.8 billion (3.6 billion pounds) in financial help, including a three-month loan worth $1.5 billion to be made available immediately, French business newspaper Les Echos said, citing a report by a Tehran think-tank linked to Iran’s leadership. …

“We have said Syria can’t go back to the way it was before, that Assad has lost his legitimacy in the eyes of his own people,” U.S. Secretary of States Hillary Clinton told a news conference in Istanbul.
“We, along with many others in the region and beyond, have said we strongly support a democratic transition,” she said. “The ultimate destiny of the Syrian regime and Syrian people lies with the people themselves.”… Emboldened by the spreading protests, prominent opposition figures and activists are to hold a conference in Istanbul on Saturday that will be closely coordinated with another conference in Damascus to form a shadow government of “independent, non-political technocrats” to prepare for when Assad loses authority.

These are the reports of the Syrian TV and Addounia about today:

Jad writes: “Every Friday for the last 3 weeks I read the exact same sentence and the problem is that every Friday I see less peaceful people go out in the street with more younger kids joining the same youth stone throwers of the week before, and there numbers are not ‘more’ than the week before, they are steady and in many places less.”

Unfolding the Syrian paradox
By Alastair Crooke in Asia Times

Can Syria properly be understood as an example of a “pure” Arab popular revolution, an uprising of non-violent, liberal protest against tyranny that has been met only by repression? I believe this narrative to be a complete misreading, deliberately contrived to serve quite separate ambitions. The consequences of turning a blind eye to the reality of what is happening in Syria entails huge risk: the potential of sectarian conflict that would not be confined to Syria alone.

One of the problems with unfolding the Syria paradox is that there is indeed a genuine, domestic demand for change. A huge majority of Syrians want reform. They feel the claustrophobia of the state’s inert heavy-handedness and of the bureaucracy’s haughty indifference toward their daily trials and tribulations. Syrians resent the pervasive corruption, and the arbitrary tentacles of the security authorities intruding into most areas of daily life. But is the widespread demand for reform itself the explanation for the violence in Syria, as many claim?

There is this mass demand for reform. But paradoxically – and contrary to the “awakening” narrative – most Syrians also believe that President Bashar al-Assad shares their conviction for reform. The populations of Damascus, Aleppo, the middle class, the merchant class, and non-Sunni minorities (who amount to one quarter of the population), among others, including the leadership of the Sunni Muslim Brotherhood, fall into this category. They also believe there is no credible “other” that could bring reform.

What then is going on? Why has the conflict become so polarized and bitter, if there is indeed such broad consensus?

I believe the roots of the bitterness lie in Iraq, rather than in Syria, in two distinct ways. Firstly, they extend back into the thinking of the Sunni jihadi trend, as advanced by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, which evolved in Iraq, surfaced violently in Lebanon, and was transposed into Syria with the return of many Syrian Salafist veterans at the “end” of the Iraq conflict.

Secondly, and separately, the bitterness in Syria is also linked to a profound sense of Sunni grievance felt by certain Arab states at Sunni political disempowerment following Prime Minister Nuri al-Malaki’s rise to power in Iraq, for which they hold Assad responsible…….

Yet the Salafists understand that the exiles are using them to provoke incidents, and then to corroborate a media narrative of repression by the external opposition; this might actually serve Salafist interests, too.

These two components may be relatively small in numbers, but the emotional pull from the heightened voice of Sunni grievance – and its need for redress has a much wider and more significant constituency. It is easily fanned into action, both in Syria and in the region as a whole.

Saudi Arabia and Gulf states explicitly trade on fears of Shi’ite “expansionism” to justify Gulf Cooperation Council repression in Bahrain and intervention in Yemen, and the “voice” of assertive sectarianism is being megaphoned into Syria too.

Sunni clerical voices are touting the Arab “awakening” as the “Sunni revolution” in riposte to the Shi’ite revolution of Iran. In March, al-Jazeera broadcast a sermon by Sheikh Youssef al-Qaradawi, which raised the banner of the restoration of Sunni ascendency in Syria. Qaradawi, who is based in Qatar, was joined by Saudi cleric Saleh Al-Luhaidan who urged, “Kill a third of Syrians so the other two-thirds may live.”

Clearly many of the protesters in traditional centers of Sunni irredentism, such as Homs and Hama in Syria, comprise of aggrieved Sunnis seeking the Alawites ouster, and a return to Sunni ascendency. These are not Salafists, but mainstream Syrians for whom the elements of Sunni ascendency, irredentism and reformism have conflated into a sole demand. This is a very frightening prospect for the quarter of the Syrians that form the non-Sunni minorities….

Economic facts about Syria for the year 2008 (source statistics office)

  • The entire hotel industry in Syria employed just 11,224 people.
  • Total salaries and wages paid to them was syp 1.97 billion, which comes to syp 14,668 ($ 312) a month per person.
  • All the hotels combined had a revenue of $279 million.
  • The 5 star hotels had 55% of that at $154 million
  • The four star and under combined had revenues of $125 million.
  • The Phoenicia hotel in Beirut alone had a revenue of $88 million last year (31% of all the hotels in Syria combined).
  • It employes 2000 people (18% of the entire workforce employed in the Syrian hotel industry)
  • latest survey is that spending by an average Syrian family living in an urban area (higher than rural) is syp 33,483 a month. This is close to $700 a month for say a family of 5 (23 dollars a day for them combined or $4.7 a day per person on all requirements)

Guardian (GB): Syrian protesters take aim at economy, 2011-07-14

ZEINA KARAM Associated Press= BEIRUT (AP) — Syrians held general strikes in cities and towns across the country Thursday, part of a strategy to squeeze the economy as President Bashar Assad tries to crush a four-month-old revolt against his …

From Middle East Channel – Thursday

Activists say 8 more Syrians killed in the last 24 hours Syrian activists say that security forces have killed an additional eight people, and arrested dozens of others — including artists and intellectuals — during military operations in the last 24 hours. The military sweeps have been in Damascus, the northern Idlib province and a restive area near the Turkish border in the northwest. Rights groups estimate that some 1,600 people have been killed since demonstrations broke out in March. Meanwhile, French President Nicolas Sarkozy is calling for an increase in sanctions against Syria as the regime continues its crackdown. “The attitude of the Syrian president is unacceptable,” he said in a television interview. “We must strengthen sanctions against the regime which is applying the most brutal methods against its population.”

Arab League to U.S.: Stop interfering in Syria
Jul. 13, 2011, Associated Press

BEIRUT – The Arab League said Wednesday that Washington overstepped its bounds by saying Syrian President Bashar Assad had lost the legitimacy to lead his country. Speaking to reporters in Damascus, Arab League Chief Nabil Elaraby said Assad assured him that “Syria has entered a new era and is now moving on the road of a genuine reform.”….

حبش لـ”دي برس”: أنا ضد دخول الجيش لحماة.. وننتظر صدور مراسيم تفعل مقررات “اللقاء التشاوري”
( Thursday, July 14, 2011دي برس – خاص)
أعرب رئيس مركز الدراسات الإسلامية في دمشق محمد حبش الخميس 14/7/2011 عن رضاه التام بما خرج به البيان الختامي للقاء التشاوري الممهد للحوار وطني في سورية، داعياً إلى عدم الخروج بتظاهرات “فلم يعد هناك داعٍ للغضب” على حد قوله.

وأضاف حبش في تصريح خاص لـ”دي برس”: “لقد وصلنا في اللقاء التشاوري للأهداف المبتغاة المتمثلة برفع القبضة الأمنية وإخراج المعتقلين والأهم تأسيس مجلس أعلى لحقوق الإنسان في سورية.. لذلك طالبت الشارع بوقف التظاهر حتى تعطى فرصة للإصلاح”.

وقال رئيس مركز الدراسات الإسلامية في دمشق “إن مدة 10 أيام كافية لإصدار مراسيم تحقق ما تم إقراره في اللقاء التشاوري، وفي حال عدم إقرارها سنعود ونطالب مجدداً وبصوت مرتفع لتحقيقها.”
حبش: يجب وقف التظاهر وإعطاء الفرصة للإصلاحات
حبش: “الحوار الوطني” هو الذي ينقذ سورية
محمد حبش: أتمنى سورية جديدة خالية من الاعتقالات
حبش: بعض الفتاوى تحركها الأموال والغايات التخريبية

Syria: The Opposition and the Church: A Slap in the Face for the Pro-Democracy Movement – Qantara by Claudia Mende

While church leaders pledge their support for the Assad regime, Christians in Syria are backing the protest movement for democratic change. The endorsement of the regime’s propaganda slogans by the representatives of the churches puts them in an increasingly precarious position, as Claudia Mende rep…

It appears that not all Christians are following the leaders of their churches in their assessment of the situation. …Christians are definitely taking part in the popular protests, and in doing so are risking their lives alongside their Muslim fellow citizens. For them, the bishops’ comments are a slap in the face.

Johnny West, “sectarianism among Alawis and Sunnis in Tripoli Lebanon and the death of Ali the Muscle
in Granta

‘Look, you need to understand something. We Alawis were nothing in Lebanon until the Syrians came in 1977,’ he said, referring to the entry of the Syrian army, under the command of Bashar’s father Hafez, at the start of the Lebanese civil war. ‘My father went to America in 1960. He saw Martin Luther King and Malcolm X speak and he got a degree in chemistry. Then he did another degree at the American University in Beirut. Look, there’s his certificate on the wall. And when he’d finished, the only job he could get was as a garbage man or customs clerk. They just wanted us to clean their shoes.

‘He came back home to Tripoli and spent two years thinking about politics. Then he founded the Arab Youth Movement. Then the war started and the Syrians came and they showed us how to fight, how to mobilize. And we learned to defend ourselves. Even when they withdrew, we got two seats in the Lebanese parliament.

‘So I am with them, right or wrong. They are my guys and I am theirs. Right or wrong. Because they are our only hope,’ he said.

I could understand that kind of loyalty, I said. But wasn’t that a personal position rather than a political one? As a leader, didn’t he bear a responsibility to his community to at least try and leave other paths open a fraction? Otherwise, where would they be if the Assads did go down in Syria?

Rifaat just shrugged. Right or wrong, there is no other hope, he kept repeating. A thunderstorm had broken outside and rain crashed against the roof and windows. Rifaat was courteous as he walked me to the door. Ali the Muscle saw me to my car and signalled to his guys to open the checkpoints.

*

The next day, in Tripoli, Lebanon, I ran into some young bloods by the clock tower in the centre of town. …

A young man called Amr was sitting near me on a plastic chair, getting a shoulder rub from his friend. When he learned who I was and where I had been, he spat on the ground.

‘The Alawi are dogs. In fact, that’s an insult to dogs,’ he said. ‘We are going to deal with them. Soon.’

His massaging friend told me he’d just come home from a long stretch living in Sydney. I wondered whether he suffered any cognitive dissonance as he looked out on the street with its chaotic bustle, bullet-pocked buildings and the tide of plastic bags swept by the early morning breeze across the square like urban tumbleweed. Amr was clearly a boss of some kind. He ‘worked’ in the shop we were outside and people came up and asked his opinion on various things, which he issued curtly. As we chatted, a big man, like all of them in his mid-twenties, solidly built and wearing a barrio string vest turned up. They are nothing. Worse than animals. We will cut their throats like sheep, he said.Amr introduced me and his friend stood there, all six foot four of him, and blew me a kiss, po-faced. I’ve always appreciated the potential to demonstrate virility through camp. My grandfather Billy, a decorated career soldier and prize-winning boxer with more than a touch of Errol Flynn to him, had loved cross-dressing for vaudeville. But here it took on a sinister air, a promise, somehow, of blood. What are we going to do to the Alawi dogs? Amr asked. Big Man drew his finger across his throat. The parking attendant turned up on a moped and Amr made to intimidate him into not collecting the fine. I insisted on paying up. The guy, after all, was just doing his job.

As I got into the car, Amr drew me aside, conspiratorially, which was odd since we were already alone. They are nothing. Worse than animals. We will cut their throats like sheep, he said….

Ali the Muscle was dead…..

Meir Javedanfar, “Iran’s domestic concerns vis a vis the Syrian uprising.” in the National

‘The rise and fall of Iran’s Ahmadinejad’ (Karim Sadjadpour, The Washington Post)

“Khamenei’s desire to project a unified front to the world is likely to keep Ahmadinejad in office until his term expires in 2013. Khamenei seeks to wield power without accountability; this requires a president who has accountability without power. A disgraced Ahmadinejad can conveniently absorb blame for the country’s endemic economic, political and social disaffection. For Washington, the best outcome of Iran’s conservative fratricide is only that the fight continues. Authoritarian collapses tend to have three prerequisites: grass-roots protests, fissures among the elite and a regime’s loss of will to use sustained brutality to retain power. While Iran has the first two, the regime remains quite willing to rule by terror….By accentuating the country’s internal rifts and breaking previously sacred taboos – such as challenging the supreme leader – Ahmadinejad has become an unlikely, unwitting ally of Iran’s democracy movement. Once thought to be leading the Islamic Republic’s rise, he is more likely to be remembered by historians as the man who hastened its decay.”

U.S. Standing Plunges Across Arab World
By: Naseema Noor and Jim Lobe | Inter Press Service

Comments (235)


Mango said:

يالها من سخرية !مئة مليار من قطر لازالة النظام السوري ! انه لمن البلاهة عدم الخضوع للاغراء المادي في بلاد عبودية المادة ! الحيثيات غير مثيرة أبدا ! أما قوى الفيزياء فلتتفضل الى الميدان !

July 15th, 2011, 1:48 pm

 

Aboud said:

Ehsani, question if you don’t mind. If (when hehehe) Bashar gets overthrown, is the new government obliged to pay back these Iranian loans?

I can understand how legitimate aid like the Arab Development Fund’s loan for electricity projects would be an obligation on any future government, but what about this case? Thanks.

July 15th, 2011, 2:08 pm

 

Aboud said:

Sorry, but the figures for Syria’s tourism industry are so maddening. No country in the world has the number of historical sites that Syria has. I challenge anyone to find me a more splendid castle than Krak de Chevaliers. Walking in Palmyra is like stepping into a Roman city. The National Museum in Damascus was ranked as one of the world’s top ten.

Syria has more tourism potential than Egypt and Lebanon combined, and a priority should be made to bring in experts who can overhaul the entire industry.

And by the way, we don’t need people like “Amr”. He sounds like a Mafia-Don wannabe.

July 15th, 2011, 2:21 pm

 

EHSANI2 said:

Aboud,

Countries can decline to repay loans and they have many times.

The numbers on Tourism were produced by me. Those interested can double check my number by going to the third tab on the right and check the 2008 survey of the hotels industry:

http://www.cbssyr.org/

July 15th, 2011, 2:36 pm

 

Majed97 said:

Unfolding the Syrian paradox
By Alastair Crooke

Can Syria properly be understood as an example of a “pure” Arab popular revolution, an uprising of non-violent, liberal protest against tyranny that has been met only by repression? I believe this narrative to be a complete misreading, deliberately contrived to serve quite separate ambitions. The consequences of turning a blind eye to the reality of what is happening in Syria entails huge risk: the potential of sectarian conflict that would not be confined to Syria alone.

One of the problems with unfolding the Syria paradox is that there is indeed a genuine, domestic demand for change. A huge majority of Syrians want reform. They feel the claustrophobia of the state’s inert heavy-handedness and of the bureaucracy’s haughty indifference toward their daily trials and tribulations. Syrians resent the pervasive corruption, and the arbitrary tentacles of the security authorities intruding into most areas of daily life. But is the widespread demand for reform itself the explanation for the violence in Syria, as many claim?

There is this mass demand for reform. But paradoxically – and contrary to the “awakening” narrative – most Syrians also believe that President Bashar al-Assad shares their conviction for reform. The populations of Damascus, Aleppo, the middle class, the merchant class, and non-Sunni minorities (who amount to one quarter of the population), among others, including the leadership of the Sunni Muslim Brotherhood, fall into this category. They also believe there is no credible “other” that could bring reform.

What then is going on? Why has the conflict become so polarized and bitter, if there is indeed such broad consensus?

I believe the roots of the bitterness lie in Iraq, rather than in Syria, in two distinct ways. Firstly, they extend back into the thinking of the Sunni jihadi trend, as advanced by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, which evolved in Iraq, surfaced violently in Lebanon, and was transposed into Syria with the return of many Syrian Salafist veterans at the “end” of the Iraq conflict.

Secondly, and separately, the bitterness in Syria is also linked to a profound sense of Sunni grievance felt by certain Arab states at Sunni political disempowerment following Prime Minister Nuri al-Malaki’s rise to power in Iraq, for which they hold Assad responsible.

In a precursor to present events in Syria, the Lebanese army too in 2007 battled with a group of Sunni militants of diverse nationalities who had all fought in Iraq. The group, Fateh al-Islam, had infiltrated Naher al-Bared refugee camp in northern Lebanon from Syria, and had married into Palestinian families living there.

Although the core of foreign fighters was quite small in number, they were well-armed and experienced in urban combat. They attracted a certain amount of local Lebanese support too. That bloody conflict with Lebanon’s army endured for more than three months. At the end, Naher al-Bared was in ruins; and 168 of the Lebanese army lay dead.

That event was the culmination of a pattern of movements from Afghanistan and across the region into, and from, Iraq. Most of these radicalized Sunnis coming to fight the United States occupation had gravitated towards groups loosely associated with Zarqawi. Zarqawi’s al-Qaeda affiliation is not of particular significance to Syria today, but the Zarqawi “Syria” doctrine that evolved in Iraq, is crucial.

Zarqawi, like other Salafists, rejected the artificial frontiers and national divisions inherited from colonialism. Instead, he insisted on calling the aggregate of Lebanon, Syria, Palestine and Jordan, and parts of Turkey and Iraq by its old name: “Bilad a-Sham”. Zarqawi and his followers were virulently anti-Shi’ite – much more so than early al-Qaeda – and asserted that a-Sham was a core Sunni patrimony that had been overtaken by the Shi’ites.

According to this narrative, the Sunni heartland, Syria, had been usurped for the last 40 years by the Shi’ite al-Assads (Alawites are an orientation within Shi’ism). The rise of Hezbollah, facilitated in part by Assad, further eroded Lebanon’s Sunni character, too. Likewise, they point to Assad’s alleged undercutting of former Iraqi prime minister Ayad Allawi as an act which had delivered Iraq to the Shi’ites, namely to Malaki.

From this deep grievance at Sunni disempowerment, Zarqawi allies developed a doctrine in which Syria and Lebanon were no longer platforms from which to launch jihad, but the sites for jihad (against the Shi’ites as much as others). The Syrian Salafists eventually were to return home, nursing this grievance. Many of them – Syrians and non-Syrians – settled in the rural villages lying adjacent to Lebanon and Turkey, and similarly to their confreres in Naher al-Barad, they married locally.

It is these elements – as in Lebanon in 2007 – who are the mainspring of armed violence against the Syrian security services. Unlike Egypt or Tunisia, Syria has experienced hundreds of dead and many hundreds of wounded members of the security forces and police. (Daraa is different: the armed element consists of Bedouin who migrate between Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Syria).

It is difficult to establish numbers, but perhaps 40,000-50,000 Syrians fought in Iraq. With their marriage into local communities, their support base is more extensive than actual numbers that travelled to Iraq. Their objective in Syria is similar to that in Iraq: to establish the conditions for jihad in Syria through exacerbating sectarian animosities – just as Zarqawi did in Iraq through his attacks on the Shi’ites and their shrines. Likewise, they seek a foothold in north-eastern Syria for a Salafist Islamic emirate, which would operate autonomously from the state’s authority.

This segment to the opposition is not interested in “reform” or democracy: They state clearly and publicly that if it costs two million lives to overthrow the “Shi’ite” Alawites the sacrifice will have been worth the loss. Drafting of legislation permitting new political parties or expanding press freedom are matters of complete indifference for them. The Zarqawi movement rejects Western politics outright.

These Salafi groups are the first side of the Syrian “box”: they do not conform to a single organization, but are generally locally-led and autonomous. Loosely inter-connected through a system of communications, they are well-financed and are externally linked.

The second side to the Syrian box are some exile groups: they too are well-financed by the US government and other foreign sources, and have external connections both in the region and the West. Some 2009 cables from the US Embassy in Damascus reveal how a number of these groups and TV stations linked to them have received tens of millions of dollars for their work from the State Department and US-based foundations, along with training and technical assistance. These exile movements believe they can successfully use the Salafist insurgents for their own ends.

The exiles hoped that a Salafist insurrection against the state – albeit confined initially to the periphery of Syria – would provoke such a backlash from the Syrian government that, in turn, a mass of people would be polarized into hostility to the state, and ultimately Western intervention in Syria would become inevitable – ideally following the Libyan model in Benghazi.

That has not happened, although Western leaders, such as French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe, have done much to keep this prospect alive. It is the exiles, often secular and leftist, that are trying to “fix” the Syria narrative for the media. These expatriates have coached the Salafists in “color” revolution techniques in order to portray an unalloyed story of massive and unprovoked repression by a regime refusing reform, whilst the army disintegrates under the pressure of being compelled to kill its countrymen.

Al-Jazeera and al-Arabia have cooperated in advancing this narrative by broadcasting anonymous eyewitness accounts and video footage, without asking questions (see Ibrahim Al-Amine here, for instance).

Yet the Salafists understand that the exiles are using them to provoke incidents, and then to corroborate a media narrative of repression by the external opposition; this might actually serve Salafist interests, too.

These two components may be relatively small in numbers, but the emotional pull from the heightened voice of Sunni grievance – and its need for redress has a much wider and more significant constituency. It is easily fanned into action, both in Syria and in the region as a whole.

Saudi Arabia and Gulf states explicitly trade on fears of Shi’ite “expansionism” to justify Gulf Cooperation Council repression in Bahrain and intervention in Yemen, and the “voice” of assertive sectarianism is being megaphoned into Syria too.

Sunni clerical voices are touting the Arab “awakening” as the “Sunni revolution” in riposte to the Shi’ite revolution of Iran. In March, al-Jazeera broadcast a sermon by Sheikh Youssef al-Qaradawi, which raised the banner of the restoration of Sunni ascendency in Syria. Qaradawi, who is based in Qatar, was joined by Saudi cleric Saleh Al-Luhaidan who urged, “Kill a third of Syrians so the other two-thirds may live.”

Clearly many of the protesters in traditional centers of Sunni irredentism, such as Homs and Hama in Syria, comprise of aggrieved Sunnis seeking the Alawites ouster, and a return to Sunni ascendency. These are not Salafists, but mainstream Syrians for whom the elements of Sunni ascendency, irredentism and reformism have conflated into a sole demand. This is a very frightening prospect for the quarter of the Syrians that form the non-Sunni minorities.

The marginalization of Sunnis in Iraq, Syria and more recently in Lebanon has aggrieved the Saudis and some Gulf states as much as it did the Salafists. The perception that Assad betrayed the Sunni interest in Iraq – although inaccurate – does help account for the vehemence of the Qatari-funded al-Jazeera’s pre-prepared information campaign against Assad.

The French magazine Le Nouvel Observateur has reported on one Stockholm media activist who paid an early secret visit to Doha, where al-Jazeera executives offered open access to the pan-Arab channel and coached the person in how to make his videos harder hitting: “Film women and children. Insist that that they use pacificist slogans.”

In contrast, Arabic press reports have been plain about the demands of Assad that Gulf states (the “Arabs of America”) and European envoys are insisting on, in return for their support. Ibrahim al-Amine, chief editor of the independent newspaper al-Akhbar, listed reform steps, which consist of disbanding the ruling party, initiating new legislation on political parties and the press, the dismissing certain officials, withdrawing the army from the streets, and beginning direct and intensive negotiations with Israel.

The envoys also suggested that such reforms might provide Assad with the pretext to break his alliance with Hezbollah and Hamas, in addition to severing the resistance aspect of Damascus’s relationship with Tehran.

Making these steps, diplomats have suggested, would facilitate improved relations with Arab states and international capitals and the prospect that oil-rich Arab states would offer Assad a $20 billion aid package, in order to smooth Assad’s path away from any economic dependency on Iran.

All of this underlines to the other dimension to events in Syria: its strategic position as the keystone of the arch spanning from southern Lebanon to Iran. It is this role that those in the US and Europe that concern themselves primarily with Israel’s security, have sought to displace. It is not so clear, however, whether Israel is as anxious as some Western officials to see Assad toppled. Israeli officials profess respect for the president. And if Assad were to go, no one knows what may follow in Syria.

The US has a record of attempting to intervene in Syria that even predates the US Central Intelligence Agency’s and British intelligence’s 1953 coup in Iran against prime minister Mohammad Mosaddegh.

Between 1947 and 1949, American government officials intervened in Syria. Their aim was to liberate the Syrian people from a corrupt autocratic elite. What resulted was a disaster and led ultimately to the rise to power of the Assad family. Western powers may no longer remember this history, but as one BBC commentator recently noted, the Syrians surely do.

Since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the US effectively has been threatening the Syrian president with continuing ultimata to make peace with Israel – in a closely worked double act with Paris. Assad’s rejection of that 2003 threat has given rise to a ratcheting sequence of pressures and threats to the Syrian president, including action at the United Nations Security Council; the Special Tribunal on Lebanon over the killing of former premier Rafik al-Hariri and Israeli military action to damage Hezbollah and so to shift the balance of power in Lebanon to Assad’s disadvantage.

The US also began the liberal funding of Syrian opposition groups since at least 2005; and more recently the training of activists, including Syrian activists, on the means to avoid arrest and on secure communications techniques using unlicensed telephone networks and Internet software.

It is these techniques, plus the training of activists by Western non-governmental organizations and other media outlets, that also serve armed, militarized insurrection – as well as peaceful pro-democracy protest movements.

The US has also been active in funding directly or indirectly human-rights centers that have been so active in providing the unverified casualty figures and eyewitness accounts to the media activists. Some such as the Damascus Center for Human Rights states its partnership with the US National Endowment for Democracy and others receive funding from, for example, the Democracy Council and the International Republican Institute.

The Syrian government’s decision to ban foreign journalists has of course contributed to giving external activist sources of information the free hand by which to dominate the media narrative on Syria.

The missing side of the Syrian Pandora’s box, which has been omitted until now, is that of the Syrian army and its response to the protests. The largely Russian-trained army has no experience fighting in a complicated urban setting in which there are genuine protesters together with a small number of armed insurgents who do possess urban warfare and ambush experience from Iraq, and are intent on provoking confrontation with the security forces.

The Syrian army lacks experience in counter-insurgency; it was groomed in the Warsaw Pact school of grand maneuvers and heavy brigades, in which the word “nuance” forms no part of the vocabulary. Tanks and armored brigades are wholly unsuited for crowd control operations, especially in narrow, congested areas. It’s no surprise that such military movements killed unarmed protesters that were caught in the middle, inflaming tensions with genuine reformists and disconcerting the public.

Initially, army esteem was affected by the criticism. Though the stories of army mass desertion are disinformation, there was some erosion of military self-confidence at lower levels of command. And public confidence in the military wobbled, too, as casualties mounted. But it was a “wobble” that ended with the dramatic conflict around Jisr al-Shagour in mid-June, near the Turkish border.

Just as the Lebanese nation rallied behind its army in the conflict of Naher al-Bared, so too the Syrians rallied behind their army in the face of the Salafist attack firstly on the police, and subsequently on the army and on state institutions in Jisr. And, as the details of the Jisr al-Shagour conflict unrolled before the public, sentiment turned bitter towards the insurrectionists, possibly decisively.

The images from Jisr, as well as other videos circulating of lynchings and attacks on the security forces will have shocked many Syrians, who will have perceived in them the same cruel “blood lust” that accompanied the images of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein’s hanging in 2006.

The Jisr events may prove to have been a pivotal moment. Army self-confidence and honor is on the rise, and the public majority now see in a way that was less evident earlier that Syria faces a serious threat unrelated to any reform agenda. Sentiment has tipped away from thinking in terms of immediate reform.

Public opinion is polarized and embittered towards the Salafists and their allies. Leftist, secular opposition circles are distancing themselves from the Salafist violence – the inherent contradiction of the divergent aspirations of the “exiles” and the Salafists, from the Syrian majority consensus, is now starkly manifest. This, essentially, is the last side to the paradoxical Syrian “box”.

In this atmosphere, dramatic reform might well be viewed by the president’s supporters as signaling weakness, even appeasement to those responsible for killing so many police and army officers at Jisr. Not surprisingly, Assad chose to use last week’s speech to speak to his constituency: to state the difficulties and threats facing Syria, but also to lay out the road map towards an exit from danger and towards substantive reform.

Western comment overwhelmingly has described the speech as “disappointing” or “short on specifics”, but this misses the point. Whereas earlier, a dramatic reform shock, such as advocated by Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu might, at a certain point, have had a transformatory “shock” effect; it is doubtful that it would achieve that now.

On the contrary, any hint of concessions having being wrested from the government by the type of violence seen at Jisr would likely anger Assad’s own constituency; and yet improbably would never transcend the categorical rejection of the militant opposition seeking to exacerbate tensions to the point of making the West determined to intervene.

By carefully setting out of some very deliberate steps and processes ahead, Assad has correctly read the mood of the majority in Syria. Time will be the judge, but Assad seems set to emerge from a complicated parallel series of challenges directed towards him from movements and states which reflect a range of grievances, special interests, and motivations. The roots of all these are very far removed from issues of legislative and political reform in Syria.

It would hardly be surprising were Assad to see the aggregate of such measures against him effectively to constitute the mounting of a soft coup. He may query the extent of US President Barack Obama’s knowledge of what has been occurring in Syria. It seems unlikely that US officials were wholly ignorant or unaware of the matrix of threats converging to threaten Assad’s stability.

And if so, it will not be for the first time that Syrian officials have noted a “left” hand-“right” hand dysfunctionality in the Obama style of foreign policy, whereby contradictory policy approaches are pursued simultaneously by different US officials.

If, as seems likely, Assad does emerge from all the challenges, the tenor of his recent response to Arab and European envoys suggests that reform will be pursued, in part, to protect Syria’s resistance ethos from such challenges in the future.

In 2007, Assad noted wryly, in an unscripted addition to his speech, that he had not had the time to pursue effective reform: “We did not even have time to discuss any idea related to the party law among others. At a certain stage, the economy was a priority, but we did not have time to tackle the economic situation. We have been engaged in a decisive battle [on the external front]; and we had to win. There was no other option …”

Now “reform” is the existential external front. But if the intent of all this was intended to shift the strategic balance in the Middle East, it has not worked. It is unlikely that Assad will emerge more pliable to Western challenges – any more than he has in the past.

Alastair Crooke is founder and director of Conflicts Forum and is a former adviser to the former EU Foreign Policy Chief, Javier Solana, from 1997-2003.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MG15Ak02.html

July 15th, 2011, 2:37 pm

 

Amir in Tel Aviv said:

I don’t trust any number that comes out of Syria’s authorities. Some of the numbers are intentionally manipulated (6% annual growth), but some numbers are simply a result of a big mess and of negligence. When there’s no accountability, why should the employees of the statistics office care?

“…The entire hotel industry in Syria employed just 11,224 people”. This is practically impossible. If you know something about the hotel industry you would know that this number is groundless.

====

The Israeli town of Eilat has some 24,500 employed in hotels.
.

July 15th, 2011, 2:41 pm

 

Observer said:

I have a colleague of mine who informed me that a Syrian American person who had previously posted comments against the regime in Syria decided to visit and he never made it out of the airport in Damascus and his body was delivered to his parents with the express demand that he is buried privately and no pictures of his body can be taken.

So, I would say that there is clearly some very hardline elements at work still.

The question I have: is this site at SC secure enough or are commentators at risk if they return and if so are their family members secure from retaliation.

On a different note, Haaretz reports that Israeli intelligence experts do not think the regime can survive.

Now it does not take a rocket scientist to make this prediction. The regime is forever gone as we know it the question is to what new form and how deep and lasting are the changes going to be.

July 15th, 2011, 2:57 pm

 

syriannnnn said:

Assad did not flex his muscles yet friends. wait and see how chaotic it could be…

July 15th, 2011, 3:00 pm

 

Aboud said:

Ehsani,

“Countries can decline to repay loans and they have many times.”

With no repercussions? So you mean Bashar can take Iran’s billions and his successor Sayed al Rayes Daffy Duck can tell the Iranians to go screw themselves?

And just so everyone knows from where Alistair Crooke is coming from;

http://motherjones.com/politics/2009/09/spy-who-loved-hamas-and-hezbollah-and-iran

Jisr Al Shoghour was indeed a turning point; it was the first time in history that Syrians became refugees outside their own country, and images of over ten thousand Syrians fleeing their own army were very powerful, both inside and outside the country.

Today, over a million Syrians came out against junior. Dayr el Zour is now another Hama, and Damascus came out in unprecedented numbers.

@7 Well no one is completely safe. He may have said or done something in the presence of the wrong people.

July 15th, 2011, 3:05 pm

 

jad said:

Another ugly Friday with more than 20 dead including police men.
Every Friday this Jordanian and sectarian-oriented Oweis quote Adb Alrahman the same sentence:
“These are the biggest demonstrations so far”
Every Friday for the last 3 weeks I read the exact same sentence and the problem is that every Friday I see less peaceful people goes out in the street with more younger kids joining the same youth stone throwers of the week before, and there numbers are not ‘more’ than the week before, they are steady and in many places less.
That is an unhealthy and disturbing signs of the uprising to depend on using kids and lawless tactics to get their message out, in my opinion it’s working against the cause and the message, they have no choice but to get more organized, to have a leader/s, a spokesperson and a representative/s to talk on their behalf to the government and the public inside Syria through the Syrian media, and even to be available to sit on the table with the government when needed.
This stone throwing images of less than 20 kids with a faceless and vision less movement is not right, they have to be strict with what the youth, kids and the thugs are doing on ground.

Here is Hama today:
http://youtu.be/w1F0CywBRt8
Less than the usual aljzeera ‘millions’ story, today there were no more than 30-40 thousands comparing to 5 weeks ago.

These are the reports of the Syrian TV and Addounia about today:
Syrian TV
http://youtu.be/OqNPQKpDyIU
Addounia
http://youtu.be/6EqBp2mP7zo

Here are footage from Damascus suburbs:
Qaboun
http://youtu.be/-kV2q4OqPeM
Barzeh
http://youtu.be/Uo89IkyF6EU

التضليل الاعلامي 15-7-2011
http://youtu.be/F_ZhgYYY684

And here is a report written on FB about today’s numbers, it doesn’t sound like the ‘biggest’ so far:

تقرير مفصل حول مظاهرات اليوم وأعدادها وأحداثها ونتائجها :

دمشق وريف دمشق :
خرج في بعض ضواحي دمشق وريفها المئات – لا يتجاوزون 2500 متظاهر – موزعين على الماطق التالية :
الميدان : خرج 200 شخص من جامع الحسن
ركن الدين : خرج ما يقارب 250 شخص ،،، وأنباء عن أطلاق نار على مخفر ركن الدين
القابون : خرج 400 شخص يهتفون بشعارات استفزازية مع عمليات تخريب ورمي للحجارة
برزة : خرج 50 شخص مع شعارات بذيئة جدا ، انضمت لهم جماعة القابون فيما بعد
المعضمية : خرج 150 شخص تقريبا
الكسوة : خرج 100 شخص تقريبا
القدم وجوبر : خرج 500 شخص تقريبا ، مع أنباء عن اطلاق نار من قبل مسلحين على عناصر حفظ النظام وإصابة أحدهم في رأسه
مضايا والزبداني : خرج ما لا يزيد عن 400 متظاهر بدون احتكاكات أمنية

دير الزور :
خرج 20000 متظاهر في مدينة دير الزور ، مع محاولاتهم المستمرة لاستفزاز رجال الامن والجيش عبر رميهم بالحجارة
خرج في شحيل وقورية وعشارة ما يقارب 3000 مجتمعين
خرج في البوكمال والميادين 6000 متظاهر

درعا :
خرج في ناحية المسجد العمري 300 متظاهر
خرج في بعض قرى حوران ما يقارب 500 متظاهر مجتمعين

اللاذقية :
محافظة اللاذقية هادئة جدا ، سوى 250 متظاهر في الرمل الفلسطيني فقط

إدلب :
خرج في المدينة ما يقارب من 1000 شخص بدون احتكاكات أمنية

حماة :
كانت الأعداد اليوم ضئيلة جدا لم تتجاوز 40000 بسبب هجرة الكثير من العائلات خارج حماة ، وكذلك انشغال الاهالي بإزالة الحواجز التخريبية

حمص :
خرجت الالاف في الخالدية باب السباع وباب الدريب والرستن والتلبيسة لا يتجاوزون مجتمعين 25000 ، واستشهاد 3 من قوات حفظ النظام وجرح 8 أخرين ، وأطلاق نار كثيف بين المسلحين وقوى الجيش

الحسكة :
خرج المئات في رأس العين والدرباسية وعامودا والقامشلي دون احتكاكات أمنية

July 15th, 2011, 3:06 pm

 

Aboud said:

Army buses moving slowly and unmolested through a crowd of demonstrators in Homs, and the whole time the protestors are shouting “The people and the army are one hand!” A very non-violent scene.

(Although I have to ask myself…where the f*ck where all those trucks headed to? My Gawd, it looked like an entire division was on the move)

July 15th, 2011, 3:18 pm

 

jad said:

“I have a colleague of mine who informed me that a Syrian American person who had previously posted comments against the regime in Syria decided to visit and he never made it out of the airport in Damascus and his body was delivered to his parents with the express demand that he is buried privately and no pictures of his body can be taken.”

Any prove of this strange unrealistic story that a friend of a friend of a friend of a colleague of my 5th cousin told you?

Your friend was executed at the airport for posting ‘comment’ and they let the local and vocal Syrians to talk, write, draw caricatures and give TV interviews to go without touching them or just putting them in jail to be released a week after?? WHY? What did he wrote that it was so outrageous and dangerous that he was needed to be executed in this ‘express’ way at the airport if not inside the airplane?
People have been calling for the down of the regime for the last 4 months and the security of the airport care for someone posting a ‘comment’ AHLEEN!

July 15th, 2011, 3:20 pm

 

Aboud said:

JAD @11 You are getting worked up again. Relaaaaaaaaaaax. If you believe your own numbers then junior should have little to worry about *snicker*

“People have been calling for the down of the regime for the last 4 months and the security of the airport care for someone posting a ‘comment’ AHLEEN!”

You do realize that the country has over a dozen security services, each one making up its own rules? What may appear harmless to one is regarded as an evil Zionist scheme to the other. In fact, just one service has something of a reputation for being fair.

Others have been known to grab kids off the street. There are too many credible stories of random arrests to ignore, even if you choose to.

July 15th, 2011, 3:27 pm

 

louai said:

Aboud , EHSANI2

I a agree figures for Syria’s tourism industry are so maddening , but that was in 2008 , after 18 march 2011 they are not maddening any more because there are no figures any more , the hotel occupancy is 0% according to the tourism minister

http://www.syria-news.com/readnews.php?sy_seq=134991

countries like Syria and Iraq should be on the top of the list to ’ must see’ countries but we have very bad Reputation in the world , every time I speak with some European or American they ask me , is it safe for tourists in Syria? , the only answer I get for my question as why you chose Lebanon not Syria is safety !! Imagine , Lebanon is more safe than Syria!!

That was before march , I don’t know how we earned this reputation in Syria about kidnapping tourists and mafias ruling the streets , I don’t recall any incident where a tourist was kidnapped or attacked in Syria I can recall many in Egypt and Lebanon who make more money that us from tourism , can Ehsani2 kindly give us his opening as why tourism Industry is so horrible in Syria? Thank you

July 15th, 2011, 3:37 pm

 

jad said:

Aboud
“You are getting worked up again.” 🙂 I’m actually very calm, just depressed of reading about how many Syrians we lost today for no reason so I may go hide for a while today and not comment.

“If you believe your own numbers”
There were no one million in the street of Deir Azzour or Hama today, and not even one million in allover Syria..Come-on! we both know that.

“each one making up its own rules? ”
O.K., but executing someone getting off the airplane at the airport is a stretch; in the situation when you have an issue with the security they usually give you a printed paper to go and visit them for ‘coffee’, after you get their, they keep you for couple days with them, being beaten and treated like shit, before you write down all your life story and every thing wrong you did or said against the government since you were 5yo, then they ask you to add couple sentences to prove your guilt and if you don’t they convince you ‘nicely’ that you can’t refuse their ‘offer’, then they put you back in the ‘clean’ cell for couple days before transferring you to the next prison, where you will be beaten again and go through the same process, you do that 3-4 times before you are taken to the court and be sentenced to 5 years in prison where they forget you…that how it works, but to execute you at the airport is a lie…

July 15th, 2011, 3:44 pm

 

louai said:

Aboud
‘@7 Well no one is completely safe. He may have said or done something in the presence of the wrong people.’

I know you are more cleaver to believe such story as presented in here , you and me know that its unrealistic to get executed in the airport just for posting anti regime comments !!!,we also know that tourists and Syrian living abroad are treated favourably comparing to the average Syrians to promote tourism , all revolutionists ,you want to hate your government and president please do but don’t hate your country

July 15th, 2011, 3:52 pm

 

Aboud said:

JAD @15 “There were no one million in the street of Deir Azzour or Hama today, and not even one million in allover Syria..Come-on! we both know that.”

Um no, I saw the videos, and if anything I’ve been quite peeved at the way news organizations always take very conservative estimations. You, me, the BBC, CNN, France 24 all saw the same video clips, we all have access to the same information. Out of the five, you are the only one claiming that only about 50,000 people came out this Friday.

Louai @14 “I don’t recall any incident where a tourist was kidnapped or attacked in Syria I can recall many in Egypt and Lebanon who make more money that us from tourism”

Exactly. The worst thing to ever happened to a tourist in Syria was that he or she got scammed at some Damascus market (hey, no biggie, it’s happened to me as well). In Egypt 1997 a tourist group was massacred at the Luxor. The less said about Lebanon the better.

Syria is unique in that all our best sites are within easy traveling distance from major population centers, if not right inside them. Tadmur practically sits check to check with the ruins of Palmyra. It only takes me 40 minutes max to get to Krak de Chevaliers from Homs. The Aleppo citadel can be seen from one’s bedroom window. Tourism can be a gold mine for Syria, an infinite resource that won’t dry up like oil.

@16 Louai You and I both know that dissidents have been arrested on their return to Syria, it’s no big secret, and it doesn’t make me a self hating Syrian for saying so. One can despise junior and his bunch and still love one’s country. In fact, one cannot admire Baathism and the way they have ruined the country, and call oneself a patriotic Syrian.

And by the way who said the man got executed at the airport? No one said that. What was implied was that on his arrival, he was taken straight into custody. From immigration, to the detention center. I don’t think even the mukhabarat execute people on the tire mac.

July 15th, 2011, 4:01 pm

 

Jad said:

Aboud,
Alasi Plaza in Hama is 14-15k m2, it can hold up to 60,000 if people standing sholder to sholder with no space inbetween, and today they weren’t as 4 weeks ago it was less, so saying 30-40,000 is a realistic estimate, other than that is unrealistic. science and math doesn’t lie, media and human do.

July 15th, 2011, 4:11 pm

 

Syria no kandahar said:

Did any one read what كلنا شركا was saying that Iran is giving Syria 6billions,1.5 immediately?if that is true MB members here should doble on their BP pills,and not have watermelon befor bed time that way they don’t have incidents at night,especially the one who uses f word in every pos,he should avoid watermelon altogether .

July 15th, 2011, 4:24 pm

 

SYR.Expat said:

8. SYRIANNNNN said:

“Assad did not flex his muscles yet friends. wait and see how chaotic it could be…”

The Israelis must be trembling in fear now. Assad is going to flex his muscles in the Golan Heights. You’ve been warned.

July 15th, 2011, 4:34 pm

 

Aboud said:

Jad @18 you are stretching to give a mathematical explanation to something that is obviously untrue. Compare the images coming from Hama to the ones in Tahrer Square and the Yemeni demonstrations. Heck, compare it to the pro-junior demonstrations. The size of the crowds in Hama are comparable to any of them.

Or did you not notice the streets leading to the plaza packed with demonstrators? If you want to talk science, then provide scientific proof. Where is your source on the size of the Al Asi square, and the number of people that can be fit in it?

How can the same mass of people be “millions” when they hold junior’s pictures, but be mere “40,000” when they are chanting against him? That’s just….unscientific.

@19 Yes Syria No Klue, we did read it. $5 billion dollars is more than what the Israelis get from the Americans in an entire year. Obviously, the state of the economy isn’t as bad as what junior’s opponents are claiming. It’s much, much worse. What a f*cked up mess the Iranians are being asked to fix….

@Syriannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Really? The country is supposedly overrun by 64,000 hard core Salafis, and junior “hasn’t flexed his muscles yet”? Would it be too much to ask that junior flex his brain muscles at this stage? Or maybe get out of bed? If I was a pro-regime supporter, I’d be quite distressed to learn that my president is still in a state of Saturday-morning-breakfast-in-bed-watching-TV while Rome burns.

July 15th, 2011, 4:34 pm

 

Syria no kandahar said:

Syr Exp
No actually البيانوني was selected the sexiest man alive,he was shown on isreal Chanel 2 during muscle context in Belgium ,followed by fida allsed
who is teaching and flexing his fatty breasts in Sweden on how to liberate Alaksa,cout Alaksa in your pocket,he is publishing a book named:how to liberate Alaksa from Alaska:MB way.

July 15th, 2011, 4:43 pm

 

Aboud said:

Hama today. As far as the eye can see. The menhebak crowd treat every square inch of free space as proof that 10,000 less people showed up than the world’s news media estimated.

And you are all invited to elect the next “Salafi Prince of Homs”, after the government claimed to have captured the last one :p

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=165982486804958

July 15th, 2011, 4:54 pm

 

why-discuss said:

Jad

““These are the biggest demonstrations so far”

This Oweis is a parrot.. He repeats that every friday.

Alistair Cook’s article is the more thorough and intelligent analysis I have read. I am sure many who read it and have been adamant to see Bashar al Assad go, must having their teeth grinding.
“If, as seems likely, Assad does emerge from all the challenges,”

It is so comforting to read someone who knows what he is talking about. His analysis of the Sunni-Iraq parameter of the uprising is very realistic and believable.
Reading it, I felt that, after all, I was not as wrong as the opposition afficionados are repeating because I never bought the song of the peaceful oppressed Syrians living in misery in goulags who want their freedom.
If I am wrong then Alistair Cook is too and we are many wrong….

July 15th, 2011, 5:10 pm

 

SYR.Expat said:

21. ABOUD
One has to be fair. I think Jad’s estimation of the crowds at al-Asi square are too generous. Unless I am looking at another part of the city, the al-Asi square area is smaller than the 14k m2 Jad came up with. My estimation is that the main area is about 7.5k m2. Packed like sardines, at 6 per square meter, which is almost impossible, you can have no more than 45,000 people. A reasonable number could be 15,00 to 20,000. At most 30,000. The math is simple. You just need the dimensions.

I used Google Maps to come up with the info.

However, this is just the main area of the square. My understanding is that there were people marching around the city, and that’s a different story.

I am not saying that only 30,000 or less people were demonstrating in Hama today, I am only saying that 30,000 or less were present at the square based on my observations and the dimensions of the square. I may have been looking at the wrong place, so I stand corrected.

July 15th, 2011, 5:12 pm

 

jad said:

Aboud,
It seems that you are getting worked up now.
It’s not about beating up the protesters when I mention the numbers it’s purely a reality check, besides, who told you I believe the 10 million number either?

Here you go some reality that you can use instead of arguing with me about the sky color:

Tahreer sq. area including its entry streets is almost 75000 m2
Omayad Sq. Area including its entry streets is almost 50000 m2
Alassi square including its entry streets area is almost 15000 m2
each m2 can hold up to 4 people MAX because average human size is .4X.6= .24m2 (those numbers are the MAX, reality is less)

Tahreer sq: 4X75000= 300,000
Omayad Sq: 4X50000= 200,000
Alassi Sq: 4X15000= 60,000

Still have doubt, just use Google map and measure it in any engineering software.

I disagree with you comparing what we are having in Syria to that of Egypt or Yemen, it’s not comparable at this stage, it’s still small in reality.

July 15th, 2011, 5:15 pm

 

why-discuss said:

Observer

“I have a colleague of mine who informed me that a Syrian American person who had previously posted comments against the regime in Syria decided to visit and he never made it out of the airport…”

Strange, if he was American, they should complain to the US embassy who is supposed to protect its citizens, no?
Did they do it? was there a response from the government?
In any case, what a weird time to visit Syrian!

Sounds to me more like a al Jazaera scare tactic for syrians american.

July 15th, 2011, 5:21 pm

 

SYR.Expat said:

22. SYRIA NO KANDAHAR

Sorry to disappoint you, but I am no fan of MB, not even close.
Try something else.

July 15th, 2011, 5:31 pm

 

Aboud said:

@26 JAD And the streets leading to the Plaza? News agencies don’t make up numbers out of thin air (unless their name is Al Dunya), and everyone of them today was quoting numbers in the high hundreds of thousands for Hama and Dayr El Zour. When you estimate numbers, it’s considered bad practice to focus just on the piece of real estate that most suits the numbers you’d like, and ignore everything outside of it.

“I disagree with you comparing what we are having in Syria to that of Egypt or Yemen, it’s not comparable at this stage, it’s still small in reality.”

Small in reality? Your own president’s actions say otherwise. $6 billion in loans from Iran? Half the army deployed all over the country? Over 14,000 arrests? All that for just 50,000 demonstrators a week?

And yes, Egyptians and Yemenis are not comparable to Syrians. With all due respect, Syrians are more resilient and braver than any other nation on the planet. The Iranians crumbled after just a few weeks, the Bahrainis the same. That’s not mentioning the countries whose people still haven’t mustered the nerve rise up.

Syrian’s have endured tank invasions, house to house arrests, blockades, disruptions in electricity and water, and still they come out in greater numbers than the week before.

But like I’ve been saying for weeks, if you think junior is so loved, why doesn’t he call free and fair elections as soon as possible? Why doesn’t he let in the media to see for themselves the “50,000” that seem to have the Baathists so worked up?

Because to do so would be to quicken his inevitable demise.

July 15th, 2011, 5:36 pm

 

OFF THE WALL said:

ABOUD and SYR.EXPAT

I got 8500 sq.m for the central triangle of the square adding the inlet streets, all the way to the nearest intersection, you can see that Jad’s estimate is nearly spot-on in about 14000 sq.m. Now assuming 4 person/sq.m gives you 56000 (that includes the streets nearby to the next intersection only. I doubt you can fit 4 people in sq.m for long without people fainting and having major problem. A reasonable estimate is 2-3 per square meter. So Jad is correct. I believe. Math does not lie. If you take SYR.EXPAT’s generous assumption of 6/sq.m you end up with max of 84,000 in the plaza and its surrounding streets.

I do not have google Earth Pro, but more accurate calculation would not add much. The issue here is the realistic estimates. Jad’s number are not suspect, they are closer to the capacity of the Plaza.

Absent photos from other areas showing the spatial extent of the demonstration and which streets it covered, it would be hard to tell the total number. In that case, I agree with SYR.EXPAT’s assessment. For the Plaza, Jad is correct.

July 15th, 2011, 5:39 pm

 

OFF THE WALL said:

WHY-DISCUSS @ 27 (for now)
They can complain to the embassy. Unfortunately, the US Embassy can interfere little in case of an American citizen in a country where she/he also holds citizenship except raise complaints. It is even more difficult if the victim entered the country using the country’s own passport and not her/his US passport. This is what I know, and I am not sure that my knowledge is accurate. A lawyer should chip in if possible.

Aboud

How can the same mass of people be “millions” when they hold junior’s pictures, but be mere “40,000″ when they are chanting against him? That’s just….unscientific.

Thanks to Jad, we know that Addunya and the regime also lied in estimating the size of the pro demos.

There were 250 reported flashpoints today. This is where the real issue is. There is a public uprising, its geographic coverage is increasing by the day even if the number of participants in each city changes. The number of flash points in Aleppo is increasing, albeit the number of participants is still small at each point

July 15th, 2011, 5:57 pm

 

Afram said:

ومن دمشق علمت قناة العربية من شاهد عيان ان الجيش السوري اطلق النار على متظاهرين ابرياء وكلهم من الاطفال كانوا يمارسون حقهم الشرعي في التظاهر٠٠٠٠٠٠ونـعـود بــعد فــــاصل.
مرة أُخرى اهلاً بكم في نشرة الأخبار من العربية٠٠٠٠٠أمر سمو الأمير نايف وزير الداخلية الســــعودي باعتقال كل من يتظاهر عملاً بفتوى هيئة كبـــــــار العلماء بأن التظاهر محرم شـــرعــاً لأنه خــــرووووووج على طاعة ولي الأمر!

July 15th, 2011, 6:00 pm

 

SYR.Expat said:

30. OFF THE WALL

I looked at the video that Aboud linked to and I noticed that there were lots of gaps in the crowd. I would estimate the number to be 10,000 to 15,000. I don’t see lots of people streaming from the side streets.

I am not trying to belittle the efforts of these brave demonstrators, but I have to be fair.

July 15th, 2011, 6:07 pm

 

Tara said:

Alistair cook’ article is utter non-sense and lacks objectivity. He is a big admirer of Bashar and this was obvious when he hailed his first speech as extraordinary. He , I think, continued to fall for Bashar, like the rest of us in the past, because of his support for the resistance.

July 15th, 2011, 6:11 pm

 

OFF THE WALL said:

Dear SYR.EXPAT

I know you are, and you have proven your fairness amply enough. I did not watch the video. I simply used yours and Jad’s assumption along with my measurements. A comfortable capacity is about what you have just described. I agree with you, they are still some of the most courageous people on this planet. And we owe them a lot. I believe they have started the countdown for this repressive regime, something no one has ever dreamed of in 40 years.

The more significant numbers are of those who lost their lives and those who now languish in torture chambers and in jails. These are the shameful numbers that the regime must be held to task for by anyone with decency.

July 15th, 2011, 6:15 pm

 

Tara said:

OTC

I also heard the same from the State Department, that the US can protect its citizen any where in the world except in their native homeland where they hold citizenship.

July 15th, 2011, 6:20 pm

 

Aboud said:

Tara @34 Actually, he’s an admirer of Iran.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2009/09/spy-who-loved-hamas-and-hezbollah-and-iran

Better grounds to doubt his impartiality, than to dismiss a Reuters writer just because “he’s Jordanian! Boooooooo!”

@33 “I don’t see lots of people streaming from the side streets.”

Then you didn’t see the same video I did. Here is it is again;

If only reality worked the way some would like, and they could judge the number of protestors in an entire city from some arbitrary space. The regime supporters could look at the New Clock in Homs every week, and convince themselves that no one in Homs was coming out to demonstrate (Edited by Aboud: I don’t mean you, Syrian Expat)

@36 Tara. Not just the USA, I believe Canada has the same limitations when it comes to citizens with a 2nd nationality. But that’s just what I heard, I don’t have anything solid like an online statement of policy.

July 15th, 2011, 6:24 pm

 

jad said:

Dearest OTW, Thank you!
Here is my estimation of today’s numbers allover Syria:
250 flash-point:
200 had +/-500 people each = 10,000
20 had +/-1000 people each = 20,000
8 had +/-5000 people each = 40,000
1 had +/-25000 people (Deir Azzor)= 25,000
1 had +/-45000 people (Hama) = 45,000
Total number of Syrians in demonstration of today is 140,000, while 5 weeks ago we had an estimation of more than 250,000 which makes this Friday NOT the biggest demonstration yet.
Sorry Khaled’s Jordan!

July 15th, 2011, 6:27 pm

 

SYR.Expat said:

Dear OFF THE WALL,

“I believe they have started the countdown for this repressive regime, something no one has ever dreamed of in 40 years.”

They sure have. Syria has so much potential. We just need stability, freedom, and justice.

July 15th, 2011, 6:29 pm

 

Tara said:

Abboud,

How many times we advised the Syrian regime on this forum to allow free press, Mexican, syberian, South African, anybody? So we can believe them.

But of course, the whole world is part of the conspiracy against the honorable Syrian regime.

July 15th, 2011, 6:34 pm

 

jad said:

It’s starting, please spread the news:

“سوريتي”: تجمع من أجل الخروج من الأزمة نحو سورية ديمقراطية
نظرا للأزمة التي تمر بها سورية من جهة العنف الممارس باسم الأمن أو باسم الحرية، والاستقطاب الخطير الطائفي والموالاتي، وغلبة أصوات التطرف التي تحاول أن تقود سورية في مسارات مجهولة وخطيرة،

ومساهمة في التحول السلمي إلى سورية (دولة وشعبا) ديمقراطية يتمتع فيها كل إنسان بالحقوق المتساوية المبنية على أساس المواطنة وحقوق الإنسان، دون أي تمييز على أساس الدين أو العرق أو الجنس أو الانتماء الايديولوجي أو أي من أشكال التمييز السلبي الأخرى،

وتأكيدا لرفض أي تدخل خارجي أو عنف أو استقطاب أعمى،

يطلق هذا التجمع با سم: “سوريتي”، وبشعار: “من أجل سورية ديمقراطية ومدنية ومستقرة”،

وفق الأهداف والقواعد التالية:

للاطلاع على المزيد، يرجى زيارة الموقع الخاص بتجمع “سوريتي” على الرابط التالي:
http://syria4us.net

“سوريتي”: تجمع من أجل الخروج من الأزمة نحو سورية ديمقراطية

مقدمة:

نظرا للأزمة التي تمر بها سورية من جهة العنف الممارس باسم الأمن أو باسم الحرية، والاستقطاب الخطير الطائفي والموالاتي، وغلبة أصوات التطرف التي تحاول أن تقود سورية في مسارات مجهولة وخطيرة،

ومساهمة في التحول السلمي إلى سورية (دولة وشعبا) ديمقراطية يتمتع فيها كل إنسان بالحقوق المتساوية المبنية على أساس المواطنة وحقوق الإنسان، دون أي تمييز على أساس الدين أو العرق أو الجنس أو الانتماء الايديولوجي أو أي من أشكال التمييز السلبي الأخرى،

وتأكيدا لرفض أي تدخل خارجي أو عنف أو استقطاب أعمى،

يطلق هذا التجمع با سم: “سوريتي”، وبشعار: “من أجل سورية ديمقراطية ومدنية ومستقرة”،

وفق الأهداف والقواعد التالية:

*- هذا التجمع معني بالخروج من الأزمة الحالية، ولا يشكل برنامجا سياسيا.

أهداف “سوريتي”:

1- مواجهة كافة أشكال الفتنة الطائفية، وذلك عبر إجراء اللقاءات المفتوحة، والعمل على كافة مستويات الإعلام، والرد على كل من يستخدم لغة طائفية أو تتضمن تعابير طائفية من أي مستوى كان. والضغط لتنفيذ الاعتقال الفوري والمحاكمة المدنية الفورية لكل من يمارس، أو يدعو إلى ممارسة أي شكل من الاستفزاز الطائفي أو المناطقي بأية ذريعة كانت. والعمل على ردم الشروخ التي فتحت في المجتمع السوري.

2- رفض ومواجهة (سلميا وقضائيا) كل دور عسكري لإدارة المخابرات العامة والشعبة السياسية تحت أي ظرف غير تعرضها مباشرة لهجوم مسلح. وحصر دور المخابرات العسكرية داخل المؤسسة العسكرية، بعد أن تم رفع حالة الطوارئ، وصار كل دور تقوم به خارج المؤسسة العسكرية هو انتهاك للدستور والقوانين المدنية.

3- مطالبة الدولة السورية بسحب السلاح من المدنيين تحت أي ذريعة تواجد فيه، وتعليق أي ترخيص للسلاح الفردي في كل مكان من سورية.

4- مطالبة الدولة السورية بإطلاق سراح كافة المعتقلين من المتظاهرين، ما لم يكن مثبت استخدامهم السلاح أو أيا من أشكال العنف الأخرى، والالتزام بعدم اعتقال أي شخص بدون مذكرة قضائية تبرز له قبيل اعتقاله مع الإثباتات الشخصية لمن يقوم بالاعتقال.

5- تعديل قانون التظاهر ليكون قانونا ديمقراطيا يساعد المتظاهرين على الالتزام بقواعده، خاصة لجهة إلغاء التعهدات المطلوبة في القانون الحالي، وإلزام الوزارة بأسباب محددة لرفض الترخيص للمظاهرة.

والضغط لتعديل مشروع قانون الأحزاب ليكون مشروعا ديمقراطيا، وإقراره فورا مع تعليماته التنفيذية، ليتمكن الناس من تنظيم أنفسهم بشكل قانوني صحيح.

6- العمل من أجل تأمين الأمان التام لكافة فئات الشعب السوري، معارضة وموالاة، وخاصة المتظاهرين المطلوبين أمنيا دون أن يمارسوا عنفا أو يحملوا سلاحا، لينظموا أنفسهم وفق قواعد مدنية سلمية، وينتخبوا ممثليهم القادرين على خوض حوار وطني شامل. وتقديم كل الدعم والمساعدة الممكنين لأية مبادرة في هذا الاتجاه.

7- العمل على ضمان تقديم المتهمين بارتكاب جرائم ضد المدنيين والعسكريين، سواء كانوا يعملون ضمن النظام أو خارجه، معه أو ضده، إلى محاكم علنية فورية، باستخدام الادعاء العام، دون اعتماد الادعاء الشخصي أو المصلحة الشخصية. والسماح لكل المواطنين ووسائل الإعلام السورية بتغطية وقائع هذه المحاكمات.

8- رفض أي تدخل خارجي تحت أي مسمى، واستخدام كافة الوسائل السلمية للرد على مثل هذا التدخل، وإيصال الصوت الرافض له إلى كافة الهيئات الدبلوماسية والسياسية المحلية والإقليمية والعالمية.

ورفض أية محاولة للتحدث باسم الشعب السوري دون تفويض ديمقراطي وعلني ينتج عن تنظيم الناس لأنفسهم في قوى وتجمعات وأحزاب تبلور تصوراتها وتنتخب ممثليها.

9- الرد على أي وسيلة إعلام سورية، أو برنامج أو مقالة ضمنها، تتضمن تحريضا على العنف أو تمييزا بين المواطنين/ات، أو نشرا لإشاعات كاذبة تمس فئة من المواطنين أو منطقة أو اتجاه، ما لم تقدم دلائل ملموسة على استخدام المتهمين للعنف أو الطائفية أو تحريضهم العلني الصريح على أي منهما. متضمنا العمل على رفع دعاوى قضائية ضد كل وسيلة إعلامية تروج للعنف ضد أية جهة داخل الوطن، أو تروج للطائفية والمناطقية بأي شكل كان.

آليات عمل “سوريتي”:

يستخدم التجمع كافة الطرق والآليات السلمية الحضارية، متضمنة المظاهرات التي يعلن عنها مسبقا بما لا يقل عن ثلاثة أيام، ويتضمن الإعلان: مكان التجمع، خط السير، مكان النهاية، وقت المظاهرة، مدتها، وشعاراتها الرئيسية.

كما يستخدم كل الآليات القانونية المتاحة من حيث رفع دعاوى فردية وجماعية، واستخدام الحملات الإعلامية، واللافتات، والزيارات الميدانية، والمحاضرات والندوات والمنشورات و…

ويلتزم التجمع بالإعلان عن أي من نشاطاته قبل ثلاثة أيام من موعدها على موقعه المعتمد:

http://www.syria4us.net

ويقوم التجمع برفع دعاوى قضائية ضد السلطات المختصة في حال اعتقال أي من أعضائه نتيجة لممارسته نشاطه المعلن في هذا الإعلان بأشكال سلمية تنبذ العنف والطائفية بأي شكل كانا.

إن مؤسسو هذا التجمع يؤكدون على:

– جميع أعضاء وعضوات التجمع يعملون على أرض الواقع، ومن خلال كافة القنوات المتاحة بما فيها الإعلام السوري والعربي والعالمي، لإيصال الأفكار المضمنة في هذه البيان، والعمل على تحقيقها، دون أي تجيير أو استغلال لأي مشارع أو أحزاب أو قوى أخرى.

– جميع أعضاء وعضوات التجمع ملتزمون بمناهضة كل أشكال العنف والطائفية، وذلك عبر كافة الوسائل المدنية المتاحة، باستثناء التظاهر والاعتصام إلا بعد إقرار التعديلات المطلوبة على قانون التظاهر. وخاصة عبر اللقاءات المباشرة مع الناس في كل مكان.

– جميع أعضاء وعضوات التجمع ملتزمون بالعلنية التامة في كل ما يفعلونه.

– هذا التجمع يمثل فقط من هم/ن منضمون إليه.

– تنشأ صفحة خاصة على الانترنت (www.syria4us.net) تكون افتتاحيتها الناطق الرسمي باسم هذا التجمع.

الرجاء الانتباه:

*- يبدأ تسجيل العضوية في هذا التجمع من يوم الإثنين، 18 تموز 2011،

*- يبدأ الترشيح للجنة القيادية اعتبارا من يوم السبت، 23 تموز 2011، ولغاية 25 منه.

*- يتم انتخاب اللجنة القيادية يوم الإثنين 26 تموز 2011

*- تباشر اللجنة القيادية عملها اعتبارا من صباح يوم الأربعاء 28 تموز 2011

1- ينتهي العمل بهذا التجمع حال تحقق أهدافه، أو بمجرد التحول إلى حزب سياسي فيما إذا رغب أعضاؤه بذلك بعد إقرار قانون أحزاب ديمقراطي.

2- الانتساب إلى هذا التجمع يكون عن طريق إرسال صورة هوية أو صورة لجواز السفر (أو وثيقة قيد مدني للمجردين من الجنسية) موقع عليها بوضوح بالاسم الثلاثي مع عبارة: أوافق على كل ما ورد في بيان تأسيس “التجمع من أجل سورية ديمقراطية وآمنة”، مع وسيلة اتصال تؤمن التأكد من مصداقية الرغبة بالانتساب، ويعلن الاسم على الموقع الالكتروني الذي سيخصص لهذا التجمع فور التأكد من صدق الوثائق. وتطبق الآلية نفسها في انسحاب أي شخص من التجمع.

ترسل طلبات الانتساب إلى الإميل: syria4us.net@gmail.com

يتابع وينشر أسماء المنتسبين من قبل: بسام القاضي حتى تشكيل لجنة من ثلاثة أعضاء لمتابعة شؤون الانتساب إلى التجمع، تعينها وتشرف عليها “اللجنة القيادية”.

3- يحق لكل سوري وسورية تجاوز الثامنة عشرة من العمر الانتساب لهذا التجمع. ويعتبر الفلسطينيين السوريين والكرد السوريين المجردين من الجنسية، بحكم السوريين/ات.

4- يقود عمل هذا التجمع لجنة مكونة من 5 أشخاص من المؤسسين/ات، على أن يكونوا جميعا ممن يعيشون داخل سورية. ويمكن للجنة الاستعانة بأي سوري/ة آخر تراه مناسبا في أي من جوانب عملها.

5- يطلق هذا التجمع دون أية قيادة أو مؤسسين، ويقبل كل من يرغب بالانضمام إليه وتنطبق عليه الشروط، وينشر اسمه على الموقع الخاص بالتجمع “سوريتي”،

يفتح باب الترشح لـ “الجنة القيادية” المؤلفة من 5 أشخاص،

يليه انتخاب اللجنة القيادية، والنطاق الإعلامي باسم التجمع، عبر اجتماع علني لكل الأعضاء، بالتصويت السري. وفي حال عدم التمكن من القيام بإجتماع علني، تجري الانتخابات عبر الموقع الالكتروني الخاص بالتجمع.

يجري الترشيح عبر موقع “سوريتي” حصرا.

6- تقود هذا التجمع “اللجنة القيادية”، وتتخذ القرارات في هذه اللجنة بأكثرية 3 أصوات من خمسة.

7- تجتمع “اللجنة القيادية” مرة كل أسبوع على الأٌقل، خلال الاشهر الثلاثة التالية لإعلان التجمع، ويمكن تمديد الفترة إلى مرة كل شهر إثر ذلك.

8- تعزل “اللجنة القيادية” كلها، أو أيا من أعضائها، أو الناطق الإعلامي، بمجرد تقديم طلب من 25% من مجموع أعضاء التجمع في لحظة طلب العزل. وتجري انتخابات قيادة جديدة خلال ثلاثة أيام من تاريخ العزل.

9- يلتزم “الناطق باسم سوريتي” بمضمون افتتاحية التجمع، وبالخط العام له، ولا يحق له التعبير عن أي من آرائه الشخصية المختلفة مع التجمع.

10- لا يمكن تغيير أي من بنود هذا التجمع، ولا يمكن حله إلا بموافقة 80 % من أعضائه لحظة اتخاذ قرار الحل.

11- كل عضو/ة في هذا التجمع يعتبر مفصولا حكما بمجرد ثبوت دعمه أو تأييده لأي شكل من الطائفية، أو العنف، أو تأييده لأي شكل من التدخل الخارجي، ولا تعد تدخلا خارجيا تقارير منظمات حقوق الإنسان الدولية المعترف بها، ولا قرارتها إذا لم تتضمن أي نوع من العقوبات.

وتقرر اللجنة القيادية صحة دعم العضو/ة للعنف أو الطائفية من عدمها، وتقرر الفصل بالتصويت العلني.

12- تعتبر الافتتاحية التي تنشر على الصفحة الخاصة بالتجمع، التعبير الوحيد عن موقف التجمع من أي من القضايا المطروحة. وكل رأي آخر لأي من أعضاء التجمع هو رأي شخصي فحسب.

13- تنشر “اللجنة القيادية” افتتاحية مرة واحدة على الأقل كل أسبوع خلال الأشهر الستة التالية لإطلاق “سوريتي”، وتكون مسؤولة جماعيا عنها أمام منتسبي/ات التجمع.

14- في حال تجاوز عمر هذا التجمع الأشهر الستة التالية لإطلاقه تكون اللجنة مسؤولة عن وضع “نظام داخلي” كامل يتضمن آلية ديمقراطية للانتساب والانتخاب وما إلى ذلك، وبرنامج سياسي متكامل، وينشران على موقع التجمع خلال مدة أقصاها شهر واحد. وتدعو إلى مؤتمر عام للتجمع لمناقشة وإقرار النظام الداخلي والبرنامج السياسي الجديدين، وانتخاب لجنة جديدة خلال مدة أقصاها شهر من انتهاء شهر نقاش المشاريع.

15- التجمع مستقل بالضرورة عن أي حزب سياسي أو منظمة أو اتحاد، ويرفض التمويل بأي شكل كان، ويغطي احتياجاته عبر التبرعات المباشرة التي تنشر مبالغها فورا على صفحة خاصة ضمن صفحات الموقع الخاص بالتجمع.

http://www.bassam-alkadi.com/content/view/622/44/

July 15th, 2011, 6:39 pm

 

Norman said:

WD, Jad and anybody,

We all know that the president and the government need to cancel article 8 and push multiparty system and laws, announce an election date, and probably announce that President Assad, not to my liking, will not be running for president the next time around,

Can you tell me to the reason why they dragging their feet while more people are dieing ,

July 15th, 2011, 6:43 pm

 

Tara said:

Abbud,

If OBSERVER’ story proved accurate, it is the biggest proof that the regime has an IQ of 75. They should’ve killed him just prior to his departure, rather than on arrival as he could’ve support the economy.

July 15th, 2011, 6:43 pm

 

Tara said:

Norman

You got it right. He needs to announce that he is not going to run again.

July 15th, 2011, 6:45 pm

 

SYR.Expat said:

Dear Aboud,

To me what’s important is that they have kept coming back and they were peaceful. I also heard that they would clean the square before they leave. Now that’s civilized.

I just hope that they tone down the chants so that there are no insults. The great energy of the crowd needs to be channeled in the most constructive and noble way.

July 15th, 2011, 6:47 pm

 

Aboud said:

JAD, you and others here have recently expressed no small amount of admiration for Bassam Al-Qadi. What if, as a result of this initiative of his, junior were to throw him in jail? What would be your opinion of both men then? Pretty hard choice….

July 15th, 2011, 6:49 pm

 

Norman said:

Tara,
If observer story is accurate , then you were generous with your assessment to their IQ.

July 15th, 2011, 6:50 pm

 

Tara said:

Norman,

I am just a positive person. Can’t help it….

Having a big party for my girl tomorrow and preparing Taboule. Tfadal.

July 15th, 2011, 6:57 pm

 

OFF THE WALL said:

Dearest Jad
200×500=100,000 not 10,000 making the total 230,000 not 140,000 even with the lower estimate of 500 for the majority of demos, which is probably an underestimate.

So, the number is close enough to a large day. I really do not want to haggle over the numbers. But you see, a slight difference in assumptions, along withe the possibility that the demonstrations extended beyond the reach of the camera, then the numbers would seem to support the argument that today was one of a large number of Syrians turning out. Demonstrations continued through the nights, and couple of hours ago, two more people lost their lives to security bullets in Rukn Aldeen in Damascus. If the numbers are that small, why is the regime resorting to such extraordinary repression measures resulting in such loss of lives?

July 15th, 2011, 6:57 pm

 

Abughasssn said:

What happened in Damascus and how many people died and how? I heard conflicting reports and I could not verify the story..

July 15th, 2011, 6:58 pm

 

jad said:

OTW,
I stand corrected 🙂

“even with the lower estimate of 500”
500 is more realistic for the majority of the protests because many of today’s protests happened with less than 50 people each so I gave them 500 to make it balanced between the 50-100-200-500 numbers

“Demonstrations continued through the nights”
The same people doesn’t make us count them twice, if they stay for longer than 2 hours 🙂

“why is the regime resorting to such extraordinary repression measures resulting in such loss of lives?”
I’m not justifying the killing of any innocent Syrian however the story on twitter read that they were trying to attack the police station there which is the most suicidal move anybody can do and I still don’t understand the point of attacking a police station of your own neighborhood when you actually need them the most at the times of trouble as Syrians face today, these destructive actions by individuals is troublesome for the whole society.

Aboud,
My impression/opinion of Bassam wont change if he was behind bars or free as if my impression/opinion of the president if he put Bassam in prison or didn’t, I already took my decision about both of them.

July 15th, 2011, 7:19 pm

 

OFF THE WALL said:

Dearest Jad
I was excited about Bassam’s initiative until I read the following

ويقوم التجمع برفع دعاوى قضائية ضد السلطات المختصة في حال اعتقال أي من أعضائه نتيجة لممارسته نشاطه المعلن في هذا الإعلان بأشكال سلمية تنبذ العنف والطائفية بأي شكل كانا.

This raises many questions. In the US, we have something called the American Civil Liberties Union. It does some of the the same thing Bassam is proposing, but you do not have to be a member of ACLU for the organization to represent you. I have always been for using the legal system to challenge the regime, as I have proven in my support of human right lawyers who were abused by their own syndicate for daring to show up in state security trials. But in this case, it seems to me that basically Bassam is promising legal insurance for those who join his initiative, which can turn into political party, and cares not about providing the same legal representation to the 14000 who are already in Jail. This is the work of a politician and not a civil and human right worker. The other question is, is Mr. Alqadi a lawyer, does he have lawyers who can file cases, and competently defend them in front of the court?

There are quite few more issues I have with the initiative. But you have to forgive my silence, I know saying anything about Bassam really irritates you, and that is the last thing on my mind. Don’t think that I have changed my mind significantly about Bassam. Please read my earlier critique of his style even when I was fully supporting him. After his article about the blind, stupid artists, I can not take him that seriously. This is the time when people in the opposition need to put their hands together in order to force the regime to acknowledge them and to recognize that the primary issue of the uprising is civil rights not just political rights and parties, and the collaborative contributions of someone with Mr. Alqadi’s experience would have been a a good addition to the team that already includes people like Samir Ayta, Burhan Ghalyon and quite few other credible thinkers. Alas, Bassam wants to play it alone, with his own rules, and that is not what one does in circumstance like that. He is simply dividing the opposition instead of bringing his voice of anti-sectarianism, a much needed voice, into a more rational and calm manner.

July 15th, 2011, 7:24 pm

 

Observer said:

The reason I posted my question was to see if there were other similar stories or if this is just a rumor. I did not pretend to know the exact details, names, and what have you.

If the the disappearance and killing of a dissident person did truly occur, it actually points to one of two possibilities: either the regime is tightening the security option and going all the way to crush and destroy any dissent, or it is in slow motion descent to fragmentation and uncoordinated action.

I believe that it is the later as there are signs of exhaustion of the regime and if it is true that Iran is sending money then there is significant indication of desperate measures being taken.

I truly cannot fathom the strategy behind the regime’s actions. I believe that some do understand the need for reform, they do not know how to go about it, some that do not understand the depth of the reform and continue to think of small cosmetic and half measures, and some that are totally oblivious of the need to reform and think that this is something we can discuss after desert has been served and a final group of complete ruthless thugs who are determine to stay in power.

If the inner circle of the regime does not understand that the game is up one way or the other then they must be as blind as a bat.

By the way bats are considered to be close to Rats.

July 15th, 2011, 7:34 pm

 

jad said:

Dearest ever OTW

“I know saying anything about Bassam really irritates you,” 🙂
That is not the case at all, I have many issues with what Bassam writes some times, but I understand that we can’t ask people to jump from dictatorship and unorganized civil society to a pro-liberal, humanitarian and democratic society in 4 months or 4 years, it’ll take time to educate society and make everybody do his or her role as a citizen, if I’m going to criticize every small move anybody in Syria is doing I’ll be killing the seed of change, I believe in supporting everything that take us a step further regardless how clumsy and small and irrelevant this step might be seen from our progressed western resident, I’d rather take it, support it and run with it than staying in my ideal world of thoughts.
I don’t think that the initiative meant to leave people in jail outside the realm of freedom and defend, i guess it was more about restricting and constructing a base for a more sustainable political party in the future, I might be wrong but that what i understood.
I agree with you about the need for every element of the Syrian oppositions to work together but at the same time I agree with Bassam for his critics of everybody to do something and get organized instead of doing things spontaneously without planning them.
I don’t believe in individualism or that people don;t make mistake even people that I like and respect I question their motives, but at this stage, I’m ready to take any constructive idea from anybody and support it in a hope of leading Syria and Syrians to a safer shore of the trouble seas we are in today.

P.S. THANK YOU VERY MUCH for coming back 🙂
You too Norman! even though we are not in Syria, but we can still do something by talking on here.
And that is my take.

July 15th, 2011, 7:42 pm

 

OFF THE WALL said:

Deearest Jad
One other issue, and it will not criticize Mr. Alqadi much longer. He has supported surgical strikes, which are a form of violence. Does that disqualify him from membership. I am really not trying to act smart, but it is very likely that such will happen again, would he continue to support violence from the regime?

Bassam’s motives are really honorable, but he is mixing peaceful work with non-violent political struggle. The two are not the same. I will try to post about the difference. I hope that he succeeds because I can see a major role for this campaign, albeit a one that aims to challenge the detention of every detainee in court not merely ask for their release in a pamphlet.

July 15th, 2011, 7:43 pm

 

why-discuss said:

A ‘conference’ of the local opposition sitting in Damascus with the x-opposition sitting in Istambul?

Will they invite Bernard Henry Levy as an sponsor?

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/07/201171513414896895.html

Emboldened by the spreading protests, prominent opposition figures and activists were to hold a conference in Istanbul in Turkey on Saturday that would be closely co-ordinated with another conference in Damascus (?).

Radwan Ziadeh, an opposition figure, told Reuters the conference would elect a 75-member National Council consisting of opposition members from inside and outside Syria.

“This is the first time we have a joint dialogue [between] opposition in Syria and exiled Syrians,” he said from Istanbul.

“We will elect 50 members to the National Council from inside Syria and 25 from exiled Syrians.”

July 15th, 2011, 7:49 pm

 

jad said:

OTW,
“Does that disqualify him from membership.”
No according to this:

2- رفض ومواجهة (سلميا وقضائيا) كل دور عسكري لإدارة المخابرات العامة والشعبة السياسية تحت أي ظرف غير تعرضها مباشرة لهجوم مسلح. وحصر دور المخابرات العسكرية داخل المؤسسة العسكرية، بعد أن تم رفع حالة الطوارئ، وصار كل دور تقوم به خارج المؤسسة العسكرية هو انتهاك للدستور والقوانين المدنية.

” تحت أي ظرف غير تعرضها مباشرة لهجوم مسلح”

In stating that he actually stick to this:

9- يلتزم “الناطق باسم سوريتي” بمضمون افتتاحية التجمع، وبالخط العام له، ولا يحق له التعبير عن أي من آرائه الشخصية المختلفة مع التجمع.

“Alqadi much longer. He has supported surgical strikes, which are a form of violence.”

Again, I disagree since he is not ‘promoting’ violence he is calling for national safety. No country in the world refuse to support such measures when the national safety is in danger or under attack. His statement goes under anti terrorism law.

‘but he is mixing peaceful work with non-violent political struggle. The two are not the same.”
What is clear and understood in the more than hundreds of years of democracies may not be as clear to the 4 month struggling ones..give it some time and have some faith..Syria-News went from a slave media to an ok kind of respected one in only 4months….it’s working, it just needs time and encouragement, baby steps 🙂

July 15th, 2011, 7:55 pm

 

jad said:

WD
The fact that Dr. boring is a sponsor Levy wont be needed!

July 15th, 2011, 8:09 pm

 

SYR.Expat said:

52. OBSERVER said:

“The reason I posted my question was to see if there were other similar stories or if this is just a rumor. I did not pretend to know the exact details, names, and what have you.”

I heard from a trusted source that someone’s wife who went to visit family in Syria was not allowed to leave. However, there was no killing or harassment. Also, I don’t know whether the ban was lifted since I last talked to him.

July 15th, 2011, 8:39 pm

 

OFF THE WALL said:

Dear Jad
Seriously, I did go not anywhere. I am still true to our deal to share a jail cell in Saidnaya with you and Norman if you are still interested. Allbeit if what we heard today is true, I’ll probably wont leave the airport if I set a foot in Syria.

I am still convinced that Bashar must leave sooner than later. He is the ring that holds the the legs of the tripod of corruption, repression, and stagnation. And it is costume cast for these specific legs and will not be suitable for any other legs. His claims to being a reformist are proving to be a lie every day including the 11 years he already had, and all the laws his committees have proposed are simply a mechanisms for delay and distraction that must be seen as part and parcel of the national men7ebbak hysteria, which I find beyond repulsive. He is as much of problem as the regime because he and the regime are one. And this is by the confessions of very close confidants of his regime that were gleaned by reading the footnotes of the ICG report, which are as valuable as the analysis itself. Watch my word, the whole dialog, if it ever happens, will center on maintaining him and the repressive security apparatus, and will in the end, simply change the colors of the tripod legs and nothing more.

After all the blood and sacrifices, it will be treasonous to accept a Mubarak-like Syria. And that is the best scenario these fossils can offer.

Dear OBSERVER
The regime is actually flying like a deaf bat.

July 15th, 2011, 8:49 pm

 

daleandersen said:

From today’s Zionist/USA/Saudi/al-Qaeda/EU/Any-Other-Foreign-Conspirators-I-Missed/Etc Press Report:

“…WASHINGTON POST – Security forces killed 27 anti-government protesters around Syria on Friday, most of them in Damascus, amid indications that opposition to President Bashar al-Assad is hardening in the capital.

According to the Local Coordination Committees, a group that organizes and monitors protests, 22 people were killed in neighborhoods and suburbs of Damascus, the highest daily toll there since the nationwide uprising began four months ago. Activists said the protests in the capital were also the largest yet, pointing to what they say is a rising tide of anti-Assad sentiment in the heart of his government’s power base…”

http://playwrighter.blogspot.com/2011/07/dialogue-syrian-style.html

July 15th, 2011, 8:58 pm

 

SYR.Expat said:

“He is the ring that holds the the legs of the tripod of corruption, repression, and stagnation.”

In my opinion, this comment should get the Best Comment of the Day award.

July 15th, 2011, 9:01 pm

 

OFF THE WALL said:

It is strange that the Qantara article by Claudia Mende completely ignored the open letter sent by H.H. Igantius Zakka I, Patriarch of Antioch (Syrian Orthodox Church) to Bashar Al-Asad on July 8, 2011. Note the stern language, and the absence of any sign of we “stand by you” lingo. Note that in the end, only a prayer is offered but no wise leadership, victorious leadership, which are phrases used commonly by leaders of Syrian Churches, including the Patriarch when addressing the president. Some writers within the community have interpreted it as a warning, more than a support letter. And note the lesson in Patriotism under democracy that H.H is giving Bashar

Here it is

His Excellency Dr. Bashar al-Assad
President of the Syrian Arab Republic Most Noble

We offer Your Excellency the most gracious greetings in our name and on behalf of all the Syrian Orthodox in the world, and wish to say:

In these difficult circumstances through which our beloved country is encountering, we held the prayers to Almighty God for the sake of Syria, to which we belong, and it bears our name at home and abroad.

We spent a whole month in Germany and the Netherlands, where we carried the country in our conscience. From the venue of our residency there, we were advising our beloved Syrian flocks in every place they exist to stand against every manifestation of violence, and support the establishment of peace, stability and security, with the focus on dialogue as the language of all.

History has taught that the more the culture of citizenship is deepened in our mind, the more the feeling of our belonging to the soil of Syria became true.

For this, and from our position as the Head of the Universal Syrian Orthodox Church in the world, we see that increasing the spaces of dealing with public freedom, the depth rootedness of awareness among the people of the one nation; will contribute to the enrichment of its plurality of cultures, sects and ethnicity. Thus, everyone remains loyal to the one nation which we want always to see it holding its own sovereignty, stability, dignity, and freedom. As such, every Syrian citizen seeks shade under the umbrella of the country which is for all, where participatory process is mandated to lead to a democratic practice of freedom of belief, and freedom of expression and concepts. Such space will ultimately bring more dignity and citizenship which we desire to people.

We assure you, Mr. President, as we have been in the past, so we will in the present and in the future defend the processes of social justice, the rule of the law, civil peace, unity and common living. We reject the chaos which is shaking our Syrian national mosaic system of unity. Together, with the entire spectra of the society, we are also ready to face the influx of foreign plans which desire to undermine our future as we hope and we want it.

We pray, Mr. President, to deepen the reforms and to be sustained under your leadership in all aspects of public life in our beloved Syria. We ask Almighty God to accept the souls of the righteous martyrs of this nation in His land, and make them rest with the righteous.

Ignatius Zakka I Iwas
Patriarch of Antioch and all the East
Supreme Head of the Syrian Orthodox Church

July 15th, 2011, 9:15 pm

 

louai said:

Ford said

“I have seen no evidence yet in terms of hard changes on the ground that the Syrian government is willing to reform at anything like the speed demanded by the street protestors. If it doesn’t start moving with far greater alacrity, the street will wash them away.”

and you mother Teresa de Damascus, if you don’t stick to your own business and stop interfering with our internal matters the street will wash you away , but you will still stinky ,that’s for sure

July 15th, 2011, 9:26 pm

 

Norman said:

OTW,

That was an interesting letter, and he seems to want to push the president to lead and to stop dragging his feats.

Syria these days is like a raging river and only the people who go with the current can survive and so far i have not seen that the president and the Baath party know that.

OTW, by the way , if you want to be in a cell with me and Jad, I will take the lowest bed , you do not want to fall on you ,,,,, LOL,LOL.

July 15th, 2011, 10:34 pm

 

Jad said:

Norman, OTW,
بس أنا بدي كون مدير الأووش، لازم أنتو الاتنين تجيبولي سكاير و حلاوة مشان احميكون من البلطجية شروا نور المشراني

July 15th, 2011, 10:37 pm

 

N.Z. said:

Aboud,

“Syria is unique in that all our best sites are within easy traveling distance from major population centers, if not right inside them.”

I will like to add, that the first reaction you get from a tourist who has just visited Syria, “how lovely the people are, how friendly, our perception was wrong, can not wait to go back, and yes the country is lovely…” our people are genuine, hard worker and patient. They’ve endured a lot and they deserve better. We will all come out stronger after all this is settled.

Syria is a hidden gem awaiting to welcoming the connoisseurs.
Forty years of stagnation with an iron fist rule in a country so rich with its people and history is like a passing tornado. In its path it caused massive destruction. It will require rebuilding from when they took over.

July 15th, 2011, 10:38 pm

 

louai said:

Aboud @ 17

No tow people can agree more about the great potentiality Syrian tourism has , you want to balme it on Al Baath go ahead I even agree with you and I could write books about it !!
in the UK they found a roman vase three month ago the put it in the front pages and breaking news, they even opened a special exhibition about it !! go to the British Museum see the Syrian and Iraqi section and cry ,
My personal opinion is, if you want a revolution do it because of your love to Syria not hate of Bashar .,don’t invest any story fact or fiction just to criticize Bashar.
The opposition accuse the government of using the Zionists as a hanger to its failure (in a way all Arabs are guilty of this) but they fail in the same mistake by blaming all their mistakes and the country problems on the government and Bashar
The opposition should be a moral alternative to the government if it wish to win the heart of the Syrian majority .

July 15th, 2011, 11:16 pm

 

jad said:

دمشق الجديدة: لم تعد كلّ الأسطر متشابهة

“سوريا اليوم هي، من دون أي شك، غير سوريا الأمس. والتغيير على مختلف المستويات كبير: ميدانياً تراجع القتل (كان يقتل واحد بالمئة من المتظاهرين بات يقتل 0.1 بالمئة) وبات وقت الاعتقال يُعد بالأيام لا بالسنوات. سياسياً اعترفت السلطة بوجود مشكلة سياسية، لا اقتصادية أو اجتماعية كما كانت توحي. وإعلامياً باتت الصحف السورية تنشر كلمات المعارضين للنظام في المناسبات المختلفة كاملة ودون اجتزاء.
لكن حوارات دمشق وأحاديث العائدين من «المناطق الحامية» توحي عدم اكتفاء المحتجين. فأولئك الذين حملوا أكفانهم، لا منازلهم أو أبناءهم أو سياراتهم أو شهاداتهم ووظائفهم، على أكتافهم ومشوا في طريق لن يعودوا إلا بعد التأكد من أن ما خرجوا في الأساس لتحقيقه، قد تحقق.
لا شك في أن الشيخ عدنان العرعور قادر على التأثير في المئات، وكذلك الرغبة الثأرية عند الشيوعيّين التي تُسكر البعض، والجوع وأمور أخرى كثيرة. ولكن لا شيء في العالم سيدفع شاباً من برزة أو حرستا أو الميدان أو غيرها من الأحياء والمدن السورية ليخرج إلى الموت، إلا اعتقاده بأن الموت أفضل من الحياة التي يعيشها، وثقته بأن لا شيء أبداً أبداً يفيد مع هذه السلطة.
لا ثقة. والسلطة، تدري أو لا تدري، تزيد الهوة: حين يكرر المسؤولون منذ تسعة أسابيع التعهد بإطلاق المعتقلين السياسيين فإن ذلك يؤكد أنهم منذ تسعة أسابيع لم ينفذوا تعهدهم. وحين تبعد السلطة عميداً لارتكابه في حماه جرماً ثم تعيده، فإن ذلك يعمق الهوة. والهوة ستزداد عمقاً حين تتعهد السلطة لوفود حماه بأنها ستعترف بضحايا 1982 وتمر أربعة أشهر دون أن تصدر شهادة وفاة واحدة. لماذا يتطلب تعديل الدستور مرة كبسة زر. ويتطلب تطبيق القانون في ما يتعلق بفصل السلطات على مختلف المستويات إنشاء اللجان وعقد اللقاءات والمؤتمرات؟ تسأل الثقة. والثقة تعلم أن الأمور في سوريا، خلافاً لما يقوله كثيرون، تحصل بكبسة زر. اسألوا كيف طارت حكومة وأتت أخرى؟ واسألوا عمّا كان المثقفون سيقولونه في حي الميدان يوم الأربعاء الماضي، مقارنة بكلام طيب تيزيني في اللقاء التشاوري، ليقمع اعتصامهم بهذه الطريقة العنيفة؟
ليست القضية بالسهولة التي يتخيلها البعض. لا صبر لأولئك الذين في الشارع على قراءة قوانين الإعلام والإعلان والأحزاب والانتخابات والمجالس البلدية التي تعدها السلطة، وآخر همهم التعديلات الدستورية. كل الأخبار الواردة عنهم تؤكد نيتهم التعامل مع هذه جميعها بالطريقة نفسها التي تعاملوا فيها مع خفض السلطة لسعر المازوت ورفعها الأجور. لا يهتم هؤلاء بهوية الرئيس وخلفية الوزير ومرونة القانون؛ همهم في مكان آخر: فكفكة أجهزة الأمن في خطوة أولى إجبارية على طريق الحياة الكريمة. هم يعلمون أن السلطة اليوم أكثر تماسكاً مما كانت عليه قبل أربعة أشهر وأكثر ثقة بالنفس وأكثر قدرة على المراوغة، لكنهم لن يعودوا إلى منازلهم.
لا أمان ولا ثقة. الورد الذي تفتح في جنائن دمشق يحتاج إليهم حيث هم، فرأس الشوكة الأمنية قد كسر وليس الشوكة كلها. يفترض بهؤلاء أن يحرسوا الانتقال الذي يتحدث عنه «السيِّد نائب الرئيس» إلى «الدولة التعددية الديموقراطية التي يحظى فيها جميع المواطنين بالمساواة ويشاركون في صياغة مستقبل بلدهم». الدولة التي لن تقوم لها قائمة قبل فصل الأمن عن التجارة والصناعة والقضاء والإعلام وصناديق الاقتراع.”

http://www.al-akhbar.com/node/16772

المعارضة غير موحّدة حول «حكومة الظلّ»

“وعن رأيه في المؤتمر الذي دعا إليه هيثم المالح، رأى سارة أن «حكومة الظل لا تزال فكرة تحتاج إلى المزيد من النقاش والحوار والتعقل، ومن الصعب بحق رسم بضعة أشخاص سيناريو للخروج من الأزمة السورية، بمعزل عن صوت الشارع المنتفض الذي باتت مطالبه واضحة جداً للجميع».
يوماً بعد يوم، تزداد الصورة في سوريا ضبابية، فلا المتظاهرون يردعهم الموت والاعتقال والتعذيب، ولا النظام يبدو أنه يفقد شيئاً من أوراق قوته. لكن الأكيد أنه ليس هناك معارضة سورية موحدة تمثل الشارع وتؤثر فيه مباشرة، ويبدو أن اقتراح حكومة الظل سيزيد من انشقاقات الرأي في صفوف المعارضة في سوريا وخارجها.”

http://www.al-akhbar.com/node/16771

July 15th, 2011, 11:22 pm

 

Ss said:

Iran will aid Syria with 6 billion dollars in addition to 300 000 burrels daily of oil.
Iran will provide its military, intellegence, and financial resources to help Syria and the Assad regime in particulr. I am not saying that this will solve the current problems but sure it will help stabilize the Syrian pound.

38 people killed today and we have heard nothing from the western media. The death toll today was the worst since the unrest 4 months ago. Aljazeera was full of lie as usual stating that the Syrian army is siding and protecting the people, I wonder where did they bring here news, carbage full of lie news. The army always with the people but we ask the army to continue cleaning the streets from those islamist radical armed terrorists and their supporters. Syria is secular, should stay secular, and those who want to pray even for evil should be allowed to do so. We do not want a radical islamist syria, rather we want a jewish, christian, islamic, and atheist Syria

July 15th, 2011, 11:33 pm

 

jad said:

المعارضـة تلغـي مؤتمـراً «للإنقـاذ الوطنـي» كـان مقـرراً عقـده فـي دمشـق
سوريا: 32 قتيلاً معظمهم في العاصمة خلال تظاهرات حاشدة كلينتون ترى «الخيارات مفتوحة» … وتترك «للشعب رسم طريقه»

“وأفاد رئيس المرصد السوري لحقوق الانسان، رامي عبد الرحمن، ان نحو نصف مليون شخص نزلوا الى الشارع في مدينة حماه والعدد نفسه تقريباً في مدينة دير الزور في شرق البلاد”
(Hama city population is about 700.000 and Der Alzor city population is about 300,000, a pro-change demonstration of 500,000 in each of them is as real as the 10,000,000 demonstration of the pro-stability)

“وقال المعارض وليد البني ان اعمال القتل دفعت المعارضة لالغاء مؤتمر «للانقاذ الوطني» كان من المقرر عقده في حي القابون في دمشق اليوم بعدما قتلت قوات الامن 14 محتجا امام قاعة افراح كان مقررا عقد المؤتمر فيها. ولم يتضح ما إذا كان مؤتمر مواز كان سيعقد في اسطنبول لمعارضي الخارج قد الغي. وكان جاء في بيان المنظمين أنه «سيعقد مؤتمر الانقاذ الوطني يوم السبت 16 تموز بالتزامن في دمشق واسطنبول لتقرير ملامح خريطة الطريق للخروج بالبلاد من حالة الاستبداد الى الديموقراطية وتحديد آليات الاستجابة للمطالب الواضحة للشارع السوري بإسقاط النظام».
وأكد اكثر من 500 شخص حضورهم هذا المؤتمر في العاصمة السورية وفي اسطنبول بتركيا. وأكد البيان ان «هيئة تأسيسية للانقاذ الوطني» ستتشكل خلال المؤتمر من اجل «وضع خريطة طريق للتحول الديموقراطي ومعالجة القضايا التي من اجلها انتفض الشارع السوري». وستتشكل الهيئة من «مندوبين عن المعارضة ومن شباب الثورة».
وقال المعارض رضوان زيادة إن المؤتمر سينتخب «مجلساً وطنياً» من 75 عضواً، وأوضح «هذه المرة الاولى التي سيكون لدينا حوار مشترك بين المعارضة في سوريا والمنفيين السوريين. سننتخب 50 عضواً للمجلس من داخل سوريا، و25 من المنفيين السوريين».
من جهتها، قالت وزيرة الخارجية الأميركية هيلاري كلينتون من اسطنبول ان «المصير النهائي للنظام السوري والشعب السوري يعتمد على الشعب نفسه، وأعتقد ان الخيارات لا تزال مفتوحة». وأضافت «لا اعتقد اننا نعلم كيف ستتمكن المعارضة في سوريا من قيادة تحركها وما هي مجالات التحرك لديها». وجددت كلينتون التأكيد ان «سوريا لا يمكنها العودة الى الوراء» واعتبرت ان الرئيس بشار الأسد «فقد شرعيته» بسبب قمعه للشعب السوري. لكنها أضافت «في نهاية المطاف، يعود للشعب السوري رسم طريقه». ”

http://www.assafir.com/Article.aspx?EditionId=1897&articleId=1823&ChannelId=44725

SS,
“The death toll today was the worst since the unrest 4 months ago. ”
Actually the worst day so far was the good Friday in April we lost 120 Syrians that day alone.

July 15th, 2011, 11:36 pm

 

jad said:

Isn’t it suspicious that Clinton is in Istanbul the same day of the opposition meeting?

July 15th, 2011, 11:49 pm

 

SYR.Expat said:

69. JAD
لا ثقة. والسلطة، تدري أو لا تدري، تزيد الهوة: حين يكرر المسؤولون منذ تسعة أسابيع التعهد بإطلاق المعتقلين
السياسيين فإن ذلك يؤكد أنهم منذ تسعة أسابيع لم ينفذوا تعهدهم. وحين تبعد السلطة عميداً لارتكابه في حماه جرماً ثم تعيده، فإن ذلك يعمق الهوة. والهوة ستزداد عمقاً حين تتعهد السلطة لوفود حماه بأنها ستعترف بضحايا 1982 وتمر أربعة أشهر دون أن تصدر شهادة وفاة واحدة. لماذا يتطلب تعديل الدستور مرة كبسة زر. ويتطلب تطبيق القانون في ما يتعلق بفصل السلطات على مختلف المستويات إنشاء اللجان وعقد اللقاءات والمؤتمرات؟

http://www.al-akhbar.com/node/16772

Great article!

The Syrian regime had so many chances to gain the confidence of the people, but they squandered them all.

We all remember how Bashar arrogantly dismissed the possibility of instability reaching Syria in his infamous interview with the WSJ. He had all the time in the world to release all political prisoners and take many other steps to gain the confidence of the majority of the people, but he was too arrogant and unwilling.

All the government is trying to do now is buy time to try to figure out how they can introduce cosmetic reforms without them losing power. However, the train has left the station and there is no going back.

The new reality the article is talking about is the product of the sacrifice of tens of thousands of brave Syrians, some of whom made the ultimate sacrifice.

July 15th, 2011, 11:53 pm

 

SYR.Expat said:

“Isn’t it suspicious that Clinton is in Istanbul the same day of the opposition meeting?”

It’s not. The Americans only care about their interests. It’s only logical for the Americans to get to know the opposition. However, the opposition is well advised to keep her at an arm’s length.

July 15th, 2011, 11:57 pm

 

why-discuss said:

Syr-Expat

They did not keep Ford at arms lenght. Anyway they are desperate for support, any support. The whole process is stagnating, they need a new impetus of constructive ideas, for a change

July 16th, 2011, 12:22 am

 

why-discuss said:

Armed Men abduct Syrian Police Officers & a Student

http://www.dp-news.com/en/detail.aspx?articleid=90192

…The private al-Watan newspaper said earlier that rioters in Hama had barricaded streets with piles of blazing tyres and stones, adding that local authorities are trying to reach a common ground with those rioters, who attacked Wednesday some Syrian tanks with Molotov cocktails.
The paper said local residents in Hama are fed up with the unbearable situation, citing local residents’ resentment over the economic standstill, which is caused by the closure of most of the markets in the city.

July 16th, 2011, 12:34 am

 

daleandersen said:

Memo To: SYR.EXPAT

RE: “…the train has left the station and there is no going back…”

Well put, kind of, but the sense of urgency isn’t here. I think I have a better one. How about this >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cNsZjIHMmE

http://playwrighter.blogspot.com/2011/07/dialogue-syrian-style.html

July 16th, 2011, 1:09 am

 

democracynow said:

Phil Sands from Damascus:

“We have completed four full months of demonstrations and things have come full circle, Deraa and the Omari mosque are involved again,” said an independent Syrian analyst, speaking on condition of anonymity. “It clearly symbolises that everything the regime has done to stamp out the uprising has failed. Their policies are in crisis, they have no answer to this.”

http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwide/middle-east/a-million-marchers-in-syria-as-uprising-enters-its-fifth-month?pageCount=0

July 16th, 2011, 1:34 am

 

democracynow said:

Hilarious.

Why-discuss is quoting day-press, who in turn is translating an article from ‘private’ Al Watan, who in turn is owned by Rami Makhlouf.

Filth couldn’t get recycled more freely on Syriacomment.

July 16th, 2011, 1:37 am

 

democracynow said:

Jad the confused soul,

Actually, Deir Ezzor’s population is half a million. It behooves you to learn about your country from sources other than the Assad sycophants news networks.

And, at any rate, don’t forget that residents of villages and town close to Deir Ezzor and Hama choose to join the big protests there on Fridays. (this is especially true for Deir Ezzor)

Where is Abu Ghassan btw? Last Friday Landis quoted him saying the only big protests that took place in Hama and Homs. He forgot about Deir Ezzor altogether. Maybe removed it from the map? This could be a serious line of inquiry: why are the menhebak crowds (and the pseudo-neutrals) dismissive of Deir Ezzor and the eastern province in general? As one menhebak woman I used to know told me once: ‘these people come from wara el ghanam (behind the sheep), they should really join Iraq’

July 16th, 2011, 1:53 am

 

Alescander said:

Ambassador Ford will continue to visit parts of Syria , citing clear instructions from Obama , calling thousands of angry syrians who demonstrated against his controversial visit to Hama “thugs” Avoided mentioning how the ‘Nawaeer “Hotel owner in Hama refused to give him a room, he also forgot to mention to FP magazine how Father Luqa, of Qassa Church did not allow him to attend a mass last Sunday , along with the French ambassador . I guess that the hotel owner was a paid Syrian intelligence agent , and Father Luqa was an Iranian spy!! This is a reminder of the foreign policy of our dear ex pres Bush, unilateralism, supporting one party against the other , in support of ” freedom” Sorry Mr Ford but you are very dumb, not because you don’t know what you are doing, but because you know that what you are doing is wrong , yet you are still doing it because your boss asked you to, if I were you , I would seek the Nobel prize somewhere else, I would remind myself that my actions are causing more strife and deaths , please have a shred of dignity and resign.

July 16th, 2011, 2:11 am

 

jad said:

DN
“Actually, Deir Ezzor’s population is half a million.”
The population of the city was 302,438 in 2007 census.
Could you give me your reference about the 500,000 and the year.
Are you saying every man from age 6-99 attend the demonstration of the 500,000 since the population of the whole Deir Azzor provence in 2010 are 1,330,000
شلون زبطت معك؟ هات خبرنا دكتور ديمقراطية الأن.

P.S. don’t be too smart and call me anything but my name, Jad, leave my soul out of it.

July 16th, 2011, 3:41 am

 

Aboud said:

JAD @ 71 “Hama city population is about 700.000 and Der Alzor city population is about 300,000, a pro-change demonstration of 500,000 in each of them is as real as the 10,000,000 demonstration of the pro-stability) ”

Here we go again, once more I have to point out to a menhebakite that people do come in from the surrounding villages and towns to take part in demonstrations in the main cities. Even Angry Arab understood that and recanted when I pointed that out to him.

For the pro-menhebak orgy in Homs, villagers were bused in from around Telkelakh. But the pro-freedom demonstrators come to the main cities without government aid, and risk check points, arrest and being shot at to do so. It was on one such trip to Dar’a that Hamza Al Khatib was murdered.

@75 “nyway they are desperate for support, any support. The whole process is stagnating, they need a new impetus of constructive ideas, for a change”

Uh, it’s quite childish to use your side’s current situation to try to describe your opponent’s. 1 million people out in the streets yesterday was not stagnating. Stagnating is when you keep trying the same old methods again and again for four months, but which get you nowhere.

@68 Louai, if you read what I wrote, I was careful not to bring the Baathists into the subject. On this issue, I don’t want people to think that my opinion was tainted by my contempt for junior and his bunch. Syria has the potential to be the best tourism destination in the world. That is not hyperbole.

The Great Wall of China, The Pyramids, Stonehenge…all cute little places to visit, but you really have to go out of your way to visit them, while in Damascus one can practically trip over antique sites on every street.

Now, let’s put the Iranian aid in perspective. I’d really love to hear Ehsani’s views on what junior might do with the money. Let’s say he just gave it away to the most loyal 12 million menhebaks in Syria, that would still only be $416 per person. The USA gave Egypt around $3 billion annually for decades, but that wasn’t enough to save Mubarak’s regime.

If the Iranians want to squander their money down a drain that is Baathism, then they are welcome to. The revolution would be more than happy to bring down the Ayatollahs in Tehran as well.

July 16th, 2011, 3:42 am

 

Jad said:

Aboud,
You want me to agree on a far fetch number, I won’t, end of story, move on.

July 16th, 2011, 3:52 am

 

Aboud said:

@84 Jad “You want me to agree on a far fetch number, I won’t, end of story, move on.”

Well actually the numbers are important. You guys keep harping on about how 1) Junior is so popular in the country and that the majority of Syrians still love his corrupt, inept, heavy handed and murderous rule 2) The world’s media, including South American, African and Asian, are all inflating the numbers and are out to get junior and 3) The demonstrations are losing steam (a really ridiculous statement that Landis was all too eager to trumpet).

So, they are demonstrating in the Omari Mosque again? Guess what, they also demonstrated in Telkelakh as well, despite the heavy presence of the security forces. And Baba Amr. It amazes me the menhebak crowd haven’t started to question their leader’s competence until now….

July 16th, 2011, 3:58 am

 

OFF THE WALL said:

ABOUD
Here we go again, once more I have to point out to a menhebakite that people do come in from the surrounding villages and towns to take part in demonstrations in the main cities

Absolutely, this is what I have been hearing, which confirms again that the regime is bitten where it really hurt, it rural base. But this fact is also being used at the local scale, in a rather sinister way, by the regime to attempt to ignite Urban-Rural xenophobia, or rich-neighborhood/poor neighborhood xenophobia. I have heard xenophobic arguments from this kind that made me very very angry at the relative who uttered them. This regime really treats the country as an occupied land and its people as occupied people. The divisive tactics it uses in order to hold on to yet one more day of power for the heir are akin to those used by the colonialists everywhere.

DEMOCRACYNOW
Deir Ezzor and its surrounding villages have been simmering for a long time now since the early days of this uprising. I agree that their contribution is not highlighted.

July 16th, 2011, 4:21 am

 

Syria no kandahar said:

Jad
Even one million it is about 4%of Syria.
The diversity of protestors is an issue which I have not seen approached here.
What is the percentage of each secor protestors to the total sector population?
Alawi 0%?
Druz 0%?
Christians 0%?
Kurds 10000/2000000=0.5%
Sunni 750000/15000000=5%

Another important no is the death rate to the total no of protesters: 8 weeks,say an average half a million every Friday and half a million the rest of the week.total no for the 4 months is 8000000 protesters.2000/8000000=0.00025%

Percentage of soldiers killed by armed criminals 1000/250000=0.004

Percentage of soldiers killed to protestors.004/0.00025=16

Which means that soldiers were 16 times more likely to be killed than protestoers(for refusing to shoot as per dumbo-MB and other Syria haters)

July 16th, 2011, 4:26 am

 

Aboud said:

For days now certain people on this forum have been hinting at “great things to come”, as if junior was going to come down from Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandments in each arm. I think from yesterday’s horrendous death rate that we can dismiss any such fantasies now.

July 16th, 2011, 5:09 am

 

Amir in Tel Aviv said:

Aboud,

From YouTube channels I watch yesterday, I noticed that Homsis have a fantastic sense of humor, and that they are charming people who take life with a big smile, no matter the harsh circumstances. I like you guys.
.

July 16th, 2011, 6:52 am

 

Aboud said:

What more can the regime do that they haven’t already tried? Their bag of tricks was very limited from the start, and now they’ve exhausted all their options. The demonstrators can keep this up indefinitely. In any battle of attrition, the bigger side always wins.

To the regime, this revolution has been going on forever. But from the revolution’s viewpoint, we are just getting started mutha f*ckers.

Amir @89 Hehe yes, Homsi are famous for their sense of humor. There was a movement last year to make it the Comedy Capital of the World. Alas, we’ll just have to be satisfied with being the Capital of the Syrian Revolution (and no Hama doesn’t count. Haven’t you been watching Al-Dunya, only 4 boys and their cats came out to Al-Asi square).

Joke; an old lady in the Homsi neighborhood of Khaldia kept passing by an army tank checkpoint, and everytime she did she’s greet them with “Shalom”. After a week of this, the officer got so mad that he detained her. “Don’t you know that Shalom is a Jewish greeting?”

“But sir”, the old lady said surprised,”I was lead to believe the Syrian army was on the Golan. I thought you were Israelis.”

July 16th, 2011, 6:53 am

 

Amir in Tel Aviv said:

No one can deny that yesterday, Damascus joined the uprise. Expect Haleb to join next Friday.
.

July 16th, 2011, 6:59 am

 

N.Z. said:

“What more can the regime do that they haven’t already tried?”

Stop killing their citizens.
Stop torturing their citizens.
Stop humiliating their citizens.
Stop sucking our wealth.
Stop dictating and leave us all alone, after 40+ years of total destruction of our institutions, we will mend our wounds and rebuild our future.

July 16th, 2011, 7:04 am

 
 

N.Z. said:

Syrian use to wake up and listen to Fairouz. Now we wake up and listen to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mG3V2fBYbw&feature=related

They wiped Ibrahim Kashoush physically, but his revolutionary words, will live with us forever.

Yallah irhal ya bashar! Our daily ritual.

July 16th, 2011, 7:26 am

 

Aboud said:

Massive, massive funeral for some of the demonstrators killed by the security forces in Qaboon, Damascus. The crowds stretch as far as the eye can see in both directions;

July 16th, 2011, 7:57 am

 

ss said:

94 N.Z.

The what is called revolution, I call it armed male-run armed islamist gangs, are going to end but unfortunately not anytime soon. “Irhal ya bashar” seems the only thing they have. I do not see any agenda, rather armed islamic men shouting Alah Wa Akbar every single minute. I see males only, I wonder where are the females, ops I forgot it is MB, islamic, Qaeda like, male dominenet, armed revolution. Syrians have to get used to Friday’s male dominent, radical islamist, alah wa akbar people for years to come. It will be the way of life. Do not bet on regime collapse, because if that is imminent then rest assure that the region will be set on fire, and if that happended Syria will be in sectarian war, and eventually will be divided. I honestly and looking at the current situation would love to live in peace in one of these divisions rather than mingling with ALAH WA AKBAR people.

July 16th, 2011, 7:59 am

 

Norman said:

We are back to the seventies and the days of the drive by shooting using Motorcycles, at that time motorcycles were banned.

http://www.alquds.co.uk

مسلحان يغتالان وسيطاً بين المحتجين والسلطة في مدينة الرستن وسط سوريا

دمشق- (يو بي اي): اغتيل السبت في مدينة الرستن السورية بمحافظة حمص وسط البلاد، وسيط من أهالي المدينة يعمل على التهدئة بين السلطات والمحتجين المسلحين فيها.
وقال مصدر سوري رسمي ليونايتد برس انترناشونال إن شخصين مجهولين يركبان دراجة نارية أطلقا النار على عبد القادر طلاس في مدينة الرستن فأردياه قتيلاً، ولاذا بالفرار.

وأضاف المصدر الذي فضل عدم الكشف عن اسمه، إن طلاس كان يعمل وسيطاً محاوراً مع المحتجين المسلحين، للتهدئة وإعادة الأمور إلى مجراها الطبيعي في المدينة.

وشهدت مدينة الرستن احتجاجات واسعة، حيث قطع مسلحون الطريق الدولية إلى حلب في شمال البلاد، وقام الجيش في مطلع يونيو الفائت بالدخول إليها، وسقط فيها عدد من القتلى والجرحى.

وتشهد عدة مناطق ومدن سورية منذ منتصف مارس/ آذار الماضي احتجاجات ومظاهرات ذهب ضحيتها أكثر من 1800 شخص حسب منظمات حقوقية، بينهم المئات من القوى الأمنية الذين تقول السلطات أنهم قضوا على أيدي “عصابات إرهابية مسلحة”.
t1

July 16th, 2011, 8:03 am

 

N.Z. said:

SSssssss,

That sound does not scare Syrians, no more.

Torture and killing have become the daily routine of this regime, all along their reign. If you are as fearful of change, as we were for forty years, emigrate to another country. Maleh, Dalilah, Kilo are all MB, maybe alqaidah, wait a minute someone is whispering, no, they are Salafis and Mullahs from Saudi and Iran.

Spare us advice. Ssssss is no longer effective.

July 16th, 2011, 8:14 am

 

Aboud said:

SS @96 Your rhetoric has not progressed one bit in four months. If until now you haven’t managed to find a single video where women come out to demonstrate, then you are the most incompetent user of Google and Youtube on the planet.

“because if that is imminent then rest assure that the region will be set on fire”

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn. Threats, little boy? Kicking junior out will improve stability in the region immensely. No more meddling in Lebanese and Iraqi affairs, and a credible effort will be made to get the Golan Heights back, and not this pathetic no-war/no-peace policy the Baathists have adopted for over 30 years.

July 16th, 2011, 8:17 am

 

N.Z. said:

Aboud.

You mean numbering 100-200 ?

You call this massive!

Yallah Ya Sham..

July 16th, 2011, 8:17 am

 

ss said:

Aboud 99:

Rest assure I found hundreds of videos wfor male dominent-Alah Wa Akbar people. I see many videos for Alah Wa Akbar people filling the streets of Egypt as well. If the you and the US call this a STABILITY OF THE REGION then mercy upon the middle east. I CALL THIS MB REVOLUTION TO TAKE OVER THE MIDDLE EAST AND ESTABLISH AN ISLAMIC REGIME. Simply Aboud, no place for MBs in Syria. Syria either secular or divided.

As for Kilo, Dalila, etc. These are honest people and kilo himself is not part of this as he wrote against the destruction of the country. So please leave these honest people aside, I am taking about male dominent, islamic radical, Alah wa akbar people.

July 16th, 2011, 8:29 am

 

mjabali said:

interesting and important article from Syria Truth:

بالمناسبة: من هو قائد الحرس الجمهوري في سوريا!؟
الجمعة, 15 تموز/يوليو 2011 04:50

هيئة التحرير

أول أمس الأربعاء ، وبناء على طلبهما ، التقى الدكتور برهان غليون والمحامي هيثم المالح أعضاء في “لجنة الشؤون الخارجية” بالبرلمان الأوربي . وقد استمع هؤلاء إلى شرح منهما حول الأوضاع السياسية و”الميدانية” في سوريا. وطبقا لعضو في اللجنة أتبادل معها الرأي ووجهات النظر بين حين وآخر حول الشؤون السورية ، فإن الدكتور غليون تولى الحديث عن الجانب السياسي العام ، في بعديه الداخلي والخارجي ، بينما تولى المالح الحديث عن القضايا “الميدانية”. وقد كان غليون حريصا على التأكيد مرارا لأعضاء اللجنة على أن أيا من حركات المعارضة السورية لا يقبل تدخلا عسكريا دوليا في سوريا بأي شكل من الأشكال.

ويستفاد مما نقلته لي السيدة عضو اللجنة ، فإن حديث الدكتور غليون غلب عليه الطابع” الوطني” من ألفه إلى يائه. أما المحامي هيثم المالح ، والكلام لم يزل لها ، فقد ” كنا نحس ونحن نستمع إليه بأننا نستمع إلى أيمن الظواهري ، رغم أنه كان حريصا على عدم إبداء أي تعبير يستشف منه مضمون إسلامي. فقد كان اللؤم والحقد يقطران من كل كلمة يتلفظ بها. فهو شخص حاقد بامتياز” ( فضلا عن أنه نصف أهبل . وهذه الأخيرة من عندي . لأن المحامي والقاضي السابق ، أو “شيخ الحقوقيين” كما تسميه بعض الفضائيات التافهة كقناة الجزيرة، الذي يقول إن الدستور السوري يمكن تعديله بمرسوم جمهوري ، لا مكان له إلا العصفورية .. إلى جانب معتوه آخر اسمه طالب ابراهيم يردد الكلام نفسه!).

السيدة أكدت أن زملاءها خرجوا في معظمهم بانطباع مفاده أن للرجل ، أي المالح ، “ثأرا شخصيا ومذهبيا مع قائد النظام السوري بشار الأسد، وأنه لو لم يكن من طائفة أخرى لما كان له أي مشكلة معه ، بل ولربما كان أحد رجاله مثلما أنه الآن أحد رجال النظام القروسطي السعودي في سوريا(…). لكن الاستنتاج الأخطر الذي خرجنا به هو أنه شخص دجال ( ذكرت السيدة الوصف بلغتها الأم : الألمانية Scharlatan ). فقد زعم خلال الحديث أن هناك ثلاثة آلاف دبابة تحاصر المدن السورية ، أي ما يعادل نصف دبابات الجيش السوري وعرباته المدرعة البالغ عددها 5945 . ونحن نعلم ـ استنادا إلى ما وصلنا من السفارات الأوربية في دمشق أن 250 إلى 300 دبابة فقط ، ومعظمها عربات مدرعة وليست دبابات ، شاركت حتى الآن في حصار المدن السورية”. ولدى سؤال أحد الزملاء له ـ تتابع السيدة البرلمانية القول ـ عن هوية القوات التي تشارك في القمع ، أكد الضيفان كلاهما ، غليون والمالح ، أن الحرس الجمهوري “هو الذي تورط في قمع التظاهرات ، بينما الجيش النظامي لم يتورط في ذلك. وقد كنا على يقين بأنهما يتحدثان عن أمور لا يعرفان عنها شيئا إلا من الصحف . فنحن نعلم جيدا من تقارير السفارات أن الحرس الجمهوري ـ على سبيل المثال ـ لم يتدخل من قريب أو بعيد في أحداث إدلب وجسر الشغور . ولم يذهب عسكري واحد من الحرس الجمهوري إلى تلك المنطقة ، بل ألوية وفرق الجيش النظامي ، وبشكل خاص الفرقة 11 المرابطة في حمص ، هي من قام بذلك . وهذا ما أكده أيضا المقدم المنشق حسين هرموش ، التابع للفرقة نفسها ، لفريق أوربي ذهب سرا إلى إقليم هاتاي ( اسكندرونة) واستمع إلى إفادته”. وتابعت السيدة القول ” كان لدينا إحساس بأن الشخصين ، كل من منطلق يختلف عن الآخر ، يحاولان إلباس الجرائم لوحدات عسكرية بعينها دون غيرها . فالمحامي المالح ، وهذا ما قاله صراحة ، ألح على أن الألوية التي تمارس القمع كلها ألوية علوية ( استخدم تعبير Alawite Brigades). ولهذا كنا نعرف أن منطلق حديثه طائفي ومذهبي من ألفه إلى يائه. بينما اعتمد الدكتور غليون مقاربة مختلفة حين أصر على الفصل بين الجيش والحرس الجمهوري على أسس سياسية ـ وطنية ، رغم أن معلوماته عما يجري على الأرض أسوأ بكثير من معلومات زميله. ونحن نتفهم ذلك ، بالنظر لأنه مقيم في الخارج منذ حوالي أربعة عقود ، بينما الآخر يزعم أنه الأب الروحي للثورة السورية وملهمها الميداني وعصبها المحرك ، كما أخبر أحد زملائنا بعد انتهاء جلسة الاستماع إليهما ، حيث أكد له أنه هو قائد الثورة السورية. وعندها أجابه زميلنا : إذا كنت قائد الثورة السورية ويسمح لك النظام بالخروج والدخول بحرية ، فإن ما يطالب به الشعب السوري هو الخبز فقط وليس الديمقراطية”!!!

السيدة ، وفي سياق حديثها ، كشفت أن أحد أعضاء اللجنة طلب من هيثم المالح ، باعتباره قادما من الداخل ، تقديم شرح عن دور الحرس الجمهوري فيما يجري ، ومن يكون قائده ، وما إذا كان ماهر الأسد يتبع له ويقوده بمعزل عن قيادة الجيش. فكان جوابه على الشق الأخير بالإيجاب. وقد سألتني السيدة عن صحة إجابة المالح ، فقلت لها إن كلامه لا أساس له من الصحة وهو تخريف بتخريف ، وأسميت لها قائد الحرس الجمهوري. وهو ما لن أذكره هنا ، لأنه محور هذا المقال!

لن أطيل عليكم في سرد كل ما نقلته السيدة النائب ، وأكتفي بما ذكرته أعلاه لأنه بيت القصيد في هذه الأسطر.

تطرح قضية “الإفادة” التي قدمها الدكتور غليون والمحامي المالح إشكالية خطيرة على مستوى معرفة “قادة المعارضة” السورية وكوادرها بالنظام السوري و”مؤسساته” و صناعة القرار فيه. ( نستحضر بهذه المناسبة الكتيب التافة والمضحك الذي نشره معتوه يدعى رضوان زيادة عن “صناعة القرار” في سوريا). وإذا كنا نبرر تماما للدكتور غليون “جهله” بهذه الأمور ، بالنظر لانصرافه خلال عقود إلى قضايا فكرية وثقافية كبرى نأت عن “اليومي التفصيلي”، خصوصا لجهة ما يتعلق بالنظام السوري ، فضلا عن بعده الجغرافي عن بلده لعقود ، فكيف يمكن أن نغفر “الهبل” و “التجليط” الذي يسوقه هيثم المالح والمئات غيره ممن “يركبون” الشاشات و الصحف ومواقع الإنترنت ، تارة بصفة معارضين ، وطورا باسم محللين وناشطين سياسيين ، وتارة أخرى تحت العنوانين كليهما، خصوصا عندما يتحدثون من ميدان الحدث ـ الداخل السوري!؟

والواقع إن الجانب المعرفي / المعلوماتي على هذا المستوى كان دوما مشكلة حقيقية مزمنة لدى المعارضة السورية لم ينج منها ـ على حد علمنا ـ إلا “حزب العمل الشيوعي” في فترة حيويته الذهبية خلال الثمانينيات. فقد كان للحزب معرفة مذهلة بدهاليز النظام وقنواته غير المرئية و الانسيالات عبرها وفيما بينها. وبعد أن توقفت أدبياته عن الصدور على أثر آخر حملة اعتقال كبرى طالته مطلع التسعينيات ، غرقت المعارضة السورية في فقر مدقع بالمعلومات الدقيقة عن النظام ، بينما أصبحت الساحة مفتوحة لكم ّهائل من الهلوسات والروايات الحيزبونية المثيرة للسخرية والضحك ، لاسيما بعد ثورة المعلومات وانتشار الإنترنت. وإذا كان لا بد من مثال صارخ على هذا الفقر ، يكفي أن نشير إلى ما يردده رموز ومثقفو المعارضة السورية عن عدد الأجهزة الأمنية في سوريا ، والتي لا يشذ عنها حتى كاتب مقمّش حاذق دقيق مثل صديقنا ورفيقنا صبحي حديدي الذي يعتبر أصدقهم وأدقهم في إيراد المعلومات الخاصة عن النظام السوري. فالجميع يكرر ، بمناسبة وبدون مناسبة ، أن في سوريا 13 جهازا أمنيا ، ولو أن بعضهم يعدها 14 جهازا ، أما لاعبو الكشتبان من الإسلاميين فيعدونها 17 دوما ، رغم أن في سوريا أربعة أجهزة فقط لا خامس لها ( العسكرية ، الجوية ، العامة ، السياسية) … هذا اللهم إلا إذا كان البعض يريد أن يحسب ” شرطة النجدة” و ” أفواج الإطفاء” و ” الدفاع المدني” و ” الأمن الجنائي” و “الضابطة الجمركية”! أو إذا لم يصل به الهبل ـ كما فعل قيادي سوري معارض ، ولكن “مصطول ع الخالص”، حين اعتبر”فرع فلسطين” و ” فرع الكومبيوتر” و ” الأمن الخارجي” .. أجهزة مخابرات. وهو أمر شبيه بأن تقول عن شخص إنه خمسة أشخاص .. بعد أن تعد ساقيه ويديه!

وجه المأساة هذا يمكن اختصاره بالسؤال التالي : كيف تعارض وتحارب نظاما، وتطرح نفسك بديلا له ، وأنت لا تعرف عنه إلا النذر اليسير من المعلومات!؟

هذه القضية برزت على نحو فج وفاضح خلال الأشهر الأخيرة ، أي بعد اندلاع الانتفاضة الشعبية الباسلة ، حين راح الجميع يتحدث عن “الحرس الجمهوري” و “الفرقة الرابعة” دون أن يكون واحد من بين المتحدثين ـ ونحن نراهن على ذلك ـ يعرف العلاقة بين الجهتين المذكورتين ، ولمن يتبعان . هذا كي لا نقول إن أحدا منهم ـ ونحن نراهن على ذلك مرة أخرى ـ لا يعرف من هو قائد الحرس الجمهوري!

بالمناسبة : من هو قائد الحرس الجمهوري في سوريا!؟

ليس السؤال من قبيل المزاح ، وإن يكن يحمل شيئا منه . فنحن جادون في سؤالنا رغم أننا لن نكتب الإجابة هنا ، ونتركها ميدانا لتكهن القراء. ونأمل أن تأتينا الإجابات على بريد “الموقع” . ونتعهد بنشر الإجابة / الإجابات الصحيحة التي تردنا. كما ونتعهد بصناعة تمثال لصاحب / أصحاب الإجابة الصحيحة .. فوق دبابة أو عربة ” بي إم بي” للحرس الجمهوري أو الفرقة الرابعة .. بعد سقوط النظام وقبل دمجهما بالجيش! لكننا نقترح ـ بداءة ـ أن يجرى اختبار ” ثقافة عامة” كشرط لقبول أي عضو ، أو استمرار عضويته ، في أي من “تنسيقيات الثورة السورية” و “المؤاتمرات” المتكاثرة كالفطر ، بأن يوجه له السؤال التالي : من هو قائد الحرس الجمهوري يا ثائر .. يا شاطر !؟

July 16th, 2011, 8:30 am

 

Syria no kandahar said:

Ss
Excellent analysis,totally agree with you,those MB members here are worse than Taliban,their opinions are so radical and they are mean and disrespectful ,that is why we can’t live with them,not even on line I try to just stay away from them and gave up on any useless argument with them.see the statistics I put in my post last night,none of them will accept it ,although it is factual math,they don’t believe in it.they are crying about a tourism they destroyed,this year would have hit the 10 million number.who will visit a country run by MB …MB is no different than Taliban..remember them blowing up Botha statue,what is that statue to MB? It is صنم ….how many years it will take for tourist to trust safety and security in Syria?
And yes kilo and Dalila are not MB ,but they are not representing their sectors either…they are جماكانه used to cover up ugly Islamic MB store with all expired goods.
Syria will be divided after an ugly civil war..the Sunnis will be the biggest losers once it is divided ,if you take the coast,Aljazera and jabal alarab from Syria,you will be lift with the desert for Sunnis with no sea or sea access.Kurds will take over Aljazera and separate and may be join Kurdistan of Iraq ,Alawi will establish their state in the coast without being put on the poles by very forgiving سنيه دبيحه
Druz mostlikey will form their own state or may join isreal,Christians in Damascus,Aleppo and Homs will migrate either to the north(kurdistan)or to the coast.Sunni will form their Islamic republic in damasks and Homs ,may be with Aleppo or Aleppo may join Turkey.
I totally agree that living with MB is like dying alive,it is much better to live in Alawite stat or Kurdistan ..where your sister can walk in the street home without hijab or bejah ….

July 16th, 2011, 8:45 am

 

Aboud said:

Posts 101 and 102 can be summed up thus;

“MB”

The regime’s line hasn’t evolved much in four months. You can always count on Besho to gift us a screw up or two every week.

July 16th, 2011, 8:57 am

 

ss said:

102 SNK

I am with you man 100%

“I totally agree that living with MB is like dying alive,it is much better to live in Alawite stat or Kurdistan ..where your sister can walk in the street home without hijab or bejah”

I do not want to be close to MB at all. I have severe allergy to MBs and alikes. They are not civilized. They make it HALAL (allowed and blessed by God) to kill people for anoother sector in the name of ALAH WA AKBAR. They want to establish IMARA islamia (islamic kingdom). If they can they would force the whole world to be Muslims and yes they do not recognize other religious. All Budha praying peoples (the Budhist) should go to hell, which means 2/3 of the people on earth should be in hell. They hate christians and they hate muslims from other sects. They can kill easily in the name of ALAH WA AKBAR. Simply they are a disaster to humanity.

July 16th, 2011, 9:03 am

 

Majed97 said:

Another Friday, another Alah Akbar riot… bringing the country closer and closer to complete destruction. Lies from Aljazeera and Arabia are getting bigger and bigger, citing numbers that can’t be verified as headline news. Funny how pictures of Syrian demonstrators posted on these sites are always grainy; an obvious attempt to make the crowd look bigger. The numbers cited by them are beyond ridiculous; as if Hama, Hums and Deir Alzor are 150% Anti-regime…

July 16th, 2011, 9:05 am

 

N.Z. said:

The Allahu Akbar people, the intellectual people and the artsy people, in your enlightened mind are all MB’s?

Or are you eluding that the poor and uneducated are not entitled to demand change?

With out the glorious masses, Kilo, Dalilah, Maleh.. will still be in the Assad’s jail.

Murdering 20 protesters this Friday, ignited Damascus. With every senseless killing, with every senseless arrest, the regime is closer than ever to the grand finale, many of us are awaiting.

Glory belongs to ordinary men and women on the street, not to those who sit on the throne. The likes of Mubarak, Bin Ali, Saleh… glorifying themselves and serving their western masters to their last breath. Their supporters will eventually wake up. We collectively are the future of this nation.

July 16th, 2011, 9:06 am

 

ss said:

Aboud 103,

You are more than welcome, as a matter of fact we became accoustomed to the new Friday’s male dominent islamic armed thugs in the streets. This is not a scre up rather an opportunity to harvest some radical islamic thugs and relief the humanity for their evil

July 16th, 2011, 9:08 am

 

Aboud said:

I love this new breed of Baathist “cyber activists”. Everything they say is background noise with a consistent hum of MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMBBBBBBBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

As debaters, they are highly ineffective. As talking heads, they only how how to stick to talking points that have long been discredited. Their efforts have never managed to convert one mind, nor stiffen the resolve of one menhebakite.

Please, keep posting 🙂 I’ll even pay for your Internet bills to make sure you stay online.

July 16th, 2011, 9:16 am

 

ss said:

106 N.Z

“Glory belongs ordinary men and women on the street, not to those who sit on the throne”

Glory belongs to decent peaceful people. Glorry will never be on the side of RADICAL ISLAMISTS SHOUTING ALAH WA AKBAR on the street.

This is a fact man, wake up. The whole west understands this horrifying fact “RADICAL ISLAMIST ALAH WA AKBAR MEN” and you know what, they will never ever give a hand to these people you call them “decent” I call them “Radicals”. If the west did not intervene and it will not intervene, can you explain to me how you will be able to throw the regime out. The only thing that is not divided yet is the regime. Syrian people are already in division and they are drawing the new map for Syria, where I versus you would like to live, the regime has not. The only thing for sure is that Friday’s radical muslim men only run festivals will continue for years to come. To conclude:

ALAH WA AKBAR PEOPLE WILL GET ONLY WORDS FROM THE WEST. the future will judge

July 16th, 2011, 9:17 am

 

ss said:

108 ABOUD:

ABOUD do you think we are trying to change your mind. what an ego???? man we care less about your state of mind, of course when you are born in a MB culture, you are MB mind by all means. Let me explain what MB mind is: Islam is above all religions, all people should be in Islam, and if not then enjoy their stay in hell. Christians are all Kufaaar because they believe Jesus is the son of God. We have the keys to the heaven and only we. Its okay to rape alawite women as 3ar3ooor has allowed it and ALAH will okay it as well. It is okay to kill Jews, alwaite, christians as this is called JIHAD and ALAH gave us the blessing of JIHAD so we can use it and if we get killed we are immediately in heave (SHORT ROAD).

I do not care if you change or not change your mind. I am not following your mind either. I want to place the facts out their for other people especially who are running the western policy to alert them to the fact that they are bringing another KANDAHAR to the middle east. You MB (MUSLIMMMM BROTHERHOOD) should be exposed

July 16th, 2011, 9:24 am

 

Aboud said:

@110 Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

“I want to place the facts out their for other people especially who are running the western policy”

Uh yes, keep up all the hard work *cough demagogue* After four months, the best the regime supporters can come up with is the old tired “MB” wolf. Luckily, it looks like they will never get a clue. Where would they be without Alistair “Ayatollah Lover” Crooke

The actress Mai Skaf, after her release from jail, and while she was surrounded by shabiha scum, whose behavior has done more to turn people against the regime than anything I could do in a hundred years;

Oh right, Mai is an MB LOL!

July 16th, 2011, 9:35 am

 

N.Z. said:

SS,

Glorifying a despot belongs to a bygone era.
It is time that we put our collective voices together for a better future that we all deserve.

Regardless, as the late Edward Said said: “there is room for all at the rendezvous of victory,” Till we meet, best wishes.

July 16th, 2011, 9:37 am

 

Aboud said:

What’s really hilarious is how, with all this focus on an non-existent MB threat, junior seems headed towards an exile in Iran, where he and Asma will live in a fundamentalist theocracy.

July 16th, 2011, 9:53 am

 

Tara said:

Mai Skaff, a real rose in the desert.

Roses do not need Chanel or Louboutin . They are adored for their inherent natural beauty.

Someone should learn a lesson?

July 16th, 2011, 9:58 am

 

syau said:

#83 aboud,

“The revolution would be more than happy to bring down the Ayatollahs in Tehran as well.”

Isn’t that what your sectarian ‘peaceful protesters’ were calling for from the beginning of this farce? Or, to be perfectly clear, they were calling for “no to Shia”, it’s stated quite clearly at the beginning of this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWOBZ3vXYG4

Then in another demonstration, your wonderful mob, at minute 1:32, say “silmeyeh, silmeyeh hata nbid Alawieh”, unless you can hear it properly, there are subtitles for you. So, you peaceful mob are chanting for peace until they wipe out the Alawi. That is definitely peaceful isn’t it?

Then, ‘Badna nehkey 3al makshouf, Alawieh ma badna nshouf’, in plain English, they are saying we without hiding it, they don’t want to see Alawi. And ‘people want Adnan Ar’our and expect good things Ar’our, our revolution is very good, then they go on to thank Wisal…..Wisal. How is that, peaceful enough for you?

Now for TARA who commented on the supporters chanting they drink blood, listen from minute 2:45 onwards, where the peaceful mob protesting chants “Ya Ar’our la tehtam, warak rjal btishrab dum”…. Ar’our do not worry, you have men who drink blood (behind you/for you).

In Hama, your peaceful protesters are chanting “7ayo Al Quradawi 7ayo, 7ayo Al Ar’our 7yao”…… Praise Al Quradawi and praise Al Ar’our”, “ibsher ya 3ar3our, 2wlow lal shabiha, alel Hama dabiha”…. Good things Ar’our, tell the shabiha the hama people are slaughters. Wow, this is the most peaceful chant yet.
People in Dara are also advising Ar’our that all of Daara will protest…..Yes Ar’our again.

It’s clear who is leading this sick violent revolution, who the ‘peaceful protesters/revolutionists’ praise. THEIR God, Ar’our. Mr. Sectarian himself. The deaths in this ‘revolution’ can be attributed to him.

This is the revolution you are supporting, with the terrorist organisation Muslim Brotherhood in control. What vengeful, hateful, violent and murderous revolution this is. You people just keep supporting this nonsense and claiming it’s peaceful if it makes you sleep well, others know better. Just bear in mind that supporting this revolution with the MB’s dirty fingerprints all over it, is supporting terrorism, but I’m sure you’re aware of that already, just keep denying it.

By the way, I forgot to add the clap..clap..clap between the chants.

July 16th, 2011, 10:02 am

 

Tara said:

Syau

Your link if not fabricated is disturbing. But how do I know that the sound track was just not fabricated, meaning added on to the images?

July 16th, 2011, 10:09 am

 

Tara said:

We need a retired FBI agent on staff to check authentication of all media clips. That would save us a lot of mental anguish.

July 16th, 2011, 10:22 am

 

N.Z. said:

# 115,

“Isn’t that what your sectarian ‘peaceful protesters’ were calling for from the beginning of this farce? Or, to be perfectly clear, they were calling for “no to Shia”, it’s stated quite clearly at the beginning of this link.”

Stop here and now! Let me remind you, during the successful Egyptian Revolution, no one other than the great Ayatollah adressed the MB crowd in Egypt. His excellency gave his Friday sermon in Arabic addressing the protesters, it was a cheap shot then, as it is a cheap shot now, from no one other than you.

In other words, to simplify, if the MB”s were so good in Egypt, and deserve a speech directly for his excellency, why are the MB”S less deserving in Syria?

Same applies to Sayed Hassan Nasrullah, are the protesters in all the Arab world a different breed from those in Syria?

Is Syrian blood cheaper than the Bahrainis?

SYAU, you owe me an explanation, thanks.

July 16th, 2011, 10:26 am

 

Jad said:

SyAU
That is the result of denying the existence of radicals and armed thugs between the protesters from the beginning thinking that if they deny all those dangerous issues it will make the uprising more attractive, however, that was the biggest mistake from everybody who blindly support the uprising without having the min awareness of reality.
unfortunately to all Syrians, that will lead to a more violence path and the destruction of the real cause of this movement, the radicals have taken over because they got covered instead of being rejected and stopped.
Did you see the clip of a policeman shot?

‘why are the MB”S less deserving in Syria?’ the Egyptian MB didn’t kill their own people for political gain, the Syrian MB proved again that they are not trustworthy on a rich multicultural socity like Syria, they can’t live with anybody but themselves.

July 16th, 2011, 10:28 am

 

syau said:

Tara,

Denying sectarianism has been evident from day one in this revolution is denying what is staring you in the face.
For fabricated/fake videos, you can look to revlon and other ‘revolutionists’ who I’m sure have a pile for you to watch and see the difference between fabrication and real. Your answer was expected though.

Those with their eyes open can see this revolution for what it is, those who deny it are just as sectarian themselves or looking at this revolution through rose coloured glasses.

It disgusts me to see such pure hate and sectarianism is in Syria, thanks to the likes of Ar’our and the spell he casts over it’s people.

Jad, I agree totally.

NZ #118,

I’m not taking a cheap shot; I am highlighting what is evident in this revolution, what the revolutionists here have been denying. The MB is not good anywhere. I do not support them in any country, no matter what.

July 16th, 2011, 10:32 am

 

N.Z. said:

Do you remember the clip that was aired on Syrian TV, at the beginning of the protests, were a so called group of infiltrators positioned themselves behind a tree, and allegedly shooting at protesters. All this time the cameraman allowed them to continue on with their murder. It was hilarious, yet many took it as evidence. I wish I bookmarked it. Anyway.

Deception is not a Syrian trait.

July 16th, 2011, 10:38 am

 

Revlon said:

Istanbul meeting is in session.
Some registrants to the Damascus meeting that was bruitally disallowed by the regime, spoke on the internet giving their full support for the meeting.

مؤتمر إسطنبول: لا شرعية لنظام دمشق

وتحدث عدد من المشاركين في مؤتمر دمشق عبر الإنترنت مع إسطنبول، وقال رئيس اللجنة التحضيرية للمؤتمر مشعل تمّو إنهم يخولون مؤتمر إسطنبول بالتحدث نيابة عنهم لعدم سماح السلطات السورية لهم بالاجتماع العلني، حيث تعرض مقر المؤتمر بحي القابون بدمشق للهجوم أمس الجمعة على يد قوات الأمن مما أسفر عن مقتل 14 محتجا واعتقال آخرين.

وعن رفع حالة الطوارئ في سوريا، قال المالح إن الأسد تحدث طويلا عن لجان وقوانين لرفع حالة الطوارئ مع أن الأمر يتم بمرسوم رئاسي، وعندما أعلن عن ذلك بالفعل استبدل به مرسوم (55) الذي يعد أسوأ من سابقه، إذ أصبح بإمكان أجهزة وزارة الداخلية اعتقال أي مواطن لمدة أسبوع قابلة للتمديد بدون محاكمة، مضيفا أن هذا تعديل لقانون مدني و”كذب لا يمارسه رئيس على شعبه

وفي السياق نفسه، قال المفكر السوري برهان غليون في كلمته إنه “لا يمكن لمن شن الحرب على الشعب وخرج عن القانون وانتهك الدستور أن يكون قائدا للشعب إلى السلام ولا أن يكون الضامن للدستور الديمقراطي في المستقبل”.
http://www.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/5ED8A956-6FC7-4DC3-99AA-6536756E677E.htm?GoogleStatID=9

July 16th, 2011, 10:39 am

 

Nour said:

I think all sides need to come to grips with certain facts. The side that poses itself as pro-regime needs to realize that this is a repressive regime that has killed, tortured, and maimed numerous Syrians and has stagnated the progress of the country due to its complete monopoly over the country’s political life and the terrorism it has practiced against its people. On the other side, supporters of the protests need to admit that there are indeed sectarian and violent elements in this protest movement that undermine the entire movement and turn people away from it. However, let us be very clear here. First, not all protesters or those calling for change are sectarian or violent. Labeling them all as such is inaccurate and unfair. Second, and most importantly, the regime itself is largely responsible for the sectarianism around the country. It has for 40 years battled, oppressed and persecuted secular groups only because they were not Baathist and at the same time allowed continuous religious indoctrination as long as it did not mention the regime. Change is needed now and there is no way we can go back to the days prior to March 18. And if the regime does not move quickly to make those changes, then it will have only itself to blame for the resulting consequences.

July 16th, 2011, 10:42 am

 

Syria no kandahsr said:

مي سكاف:بدي طالب حكومتي تحميني لوصل علبيت
When someone like you stays on the same side with Alaaroor ,MB and the radical Sunnis …you are in the wrong side…
Befor this started you could have walked home at 2 am … Why are destroying that?you are acting like the child who was taking the cookies to the grandmother and you see the fox in bed,you see his voice chanting that he will eat you ,you see his ears….yet you keep goin to him..why do you blame your mom?

July 16th, 2011, 10:43 am

 

Aboud said:

@115 There have been thousands upon thousands of hours of footage shot of demonstrations in Syria, and that’s the best SYAU could come up with?

First, the two weakest clips. In the third clip, someone is shouting sectarian slogans, before someone else beside him tells him to shut up. The slogans are not picked up by the rest of the demonstrators, and the clip is abruptly ended. Weak.

In the fourth clip, no matter how many times one tries to hear the chants, one cannot make out half of what’s being chanted. But thank you for providing your own interpretation based on your fears. Very weak.

In the second clip, is that the lynching I’ve heard about? This was taken on June 4th, the day after 70 Hamwis were slaughtered in cold blood by junior’s scum. There are many possible explanations for who that man was. Still, very weak.

And so we come to the first clip. In a crowd, someone is shouting against Shias, but the call is not taken up by the vast majority of demonstrators. But they do shout out against Iran and Hizbollah. To that I say, bravo. F*ck Nasrallah, and I hope his end is the same as Ben Laden.

So, in the thousands of hours of video clips available, all you managed to dig up is four very weak and highly dubious clips. But what about the actions of the demonstrators? In every report I’ve read about Syria, commentators have expressed astonishment that there has been no sectarian violence in these four months. To quote the second ICG report;

“The Syrian people have proved remarkably resistant to sectarian or divisive tendencies, defying regime prophecies of confessional
strife and Islamisation. That does not guarantee a stable, democratic future. But is a good start that deserves recognition and support.”

Now, compare that to the behavior of the shabiha scum. When the army took over Telkelakh, hundreds of men were rounded up and imprisoned in the Tel-Sareen school, where the scum-sh*t inhabitants abused them, beat them, spat on them, and tortured them. We all know what sect those scum in Tel-Sareen belong to, and it was no surprise that few of them dared send their children to sit for high school exams in Telkelakh.

So, before you come whining and bitching to us about a few nasty words someone may have said, remember that your shabiha scum have earned much, much worse. It is only because the Syrian people by and large are generous, forgiving, patient, and non-sectarian that they do not do unto the shabiha what the shabiha so richly deserve.

July 16th, 2011, 10:44 am

 

Tara said:

Syau,

I am not denying that sectarianism  is present in Syria and in the whole  ME too, and is probably more ignited now with all the killings that took place.  I still remember a Tunisian worker in Lebanese grocery store in a western capital cursing the Shiaa describing them as agents of the devil just immediately after Israel withdrawal from south Lebanon.  If I to deny it, I would be fooling myself.  Yes, it is present.

However, for the regime supporters to characterize the whole revolution as pure sectarian calling for the death of Alawis in particular and the Shiaa in general is also an act of fooling one’ self.  There must be reasons for demonstrators to risk  their own lives and the lives of their loved ones and no one can simply denies it.  Don’t you think?

The country is in crisis.  Mamenhebakites should acknowledge the presence of very sinister elements capable of brainwashing the masses especially after all the killings.  Menhebakites should also acknowledge that the regime had lost its legitimacy indeed.  Both should try to come up with a real plan to save the country.  The problem Syau is that for real non sectarian opposition, and I hope you believe I am one of them, there is ABSOLUTE no trust in Bashar.  You just can not impose trust as much as you can not impose love.  Trust is an emotion you develop over years and it is simply not there.

The more this revolution drags on, the higher chance that bad scenarios would occurs.  Upuntil this second, no serious reform has taken place period. They are just adding insult to injury every day and last example was arresting Mai Skaff and colleagues.  For god sake, is she an MB?    

 

July 16th, 2011, 10:59 am

 

Aboud said:

@119 “the radicals have taken over because they got covered instead of being rejected and stopped.”

You really sicken me. Radicals? And what was the worse those “radicals” have managed to do? Have they sent in tanks? Have they cut electricity and water from entire cities? Have they tried to starve neighborhoods into submission? Have they killed over 1,500 of their fellow Syrians in cold blood? Have they fired on funerals and killed mourners?

You really have some nerve to toss the term “radical” around, when you come here everyday and defend the most disgraceful, blood thirsty regime in the region.

July 16th, 2011, 11:07 am

 

abughassan said:

Mr Al-Maleh shadow government is a bad idea and I do not support it,it is also obvious that it will increase division inside the opposition and provide relief.not pressure,for the regime. I do not know why Syrians,except those who are MBs,still have to go to Turkey to hold a conference about Syria when they are now free to do that on Syrian soil ?

July 16th, 2011, 11:11 am

 

Revlon said:

Istanbul meeting; Opening remarks by representatives from Damascus and mr H AlMale7 in Istanbul.
مؤتمر الإنقاذ الوطني – ج1 16-07-2011

July 16th, 2011, 11:11 am

 

syau said:

#124,

Only weak to those who are trying to cover up the blatant sectarianism in this revolution by constantly denying its existence. Don’t get too worked up over this, your vulgar words are making a comeback. Your comments remind me of ponytail for some reason.

Where’s the moderator who seems to skim passed Abouds comments, instead of editing his comments or banning him?

Tara,

No one is saying the whole revolution is purely sectarian, there were legitimate protesters, but I think after the announcement of reforms, they took a step back. What are left are Ar’our’s boys. The armed gangs, young vigilante thugs in the streets on Fridays, destruction of infrastructure and private property, and, killings of security personnel should be clear enough for all to see.

July 16th, 2011, 11:13 am

 

Revlon said:

127. abughassn:
” I do not know why Syrians,except those who are MBs,still have to go to Turkey to hold a conference about Syria when they are now free to do that on Syrian soil ?”

Are you ware of what happened to planned Qaboon meeting today?

July 16th, 2011, 11:14 am

 

Aboud said:

Abughassan, spare us please. I really can’t keep up with the outlandish statements you people keep making.

“I do not know why Syrians,except those who are MBs,still have to go to Turkey to hold a conference about Syria when they are now free to do that on Syrian soil ?”

Were you asleep when the demonstration of actors and intellectuals was broken up? Are you blissfully ignorant of how many people in Damascus were killed by shabiha scum right infront of the building where the opposition meeting was supposed to take place? Why don’t you ask Mai Skaff who was attacked by shabiha scum right after her release, if she feels safe in holding an opposition meeting?

Remember what happened at the next to last one? A participant was attacked by the menhebak scum for calling for the downfall of junior.

July 16th, 2011, 11:15 am

 

Revlon said:

40 Martyrs fell on Friday of freedom prisoners, victims to Jr’s belligerence.
Al Fati7a upon their souls,
May God bless their families with patience and empower them with patience.

أسماء شهداء جمعة أسرى الحرية
الذين سقطوا فداء لسوريا وحريتها وبلغ عددهم 40 كإحصائية حالية
ونترحم على ارواحهم الطاهرة ونسأل الله ان يلهم اهلهم وذويهم الصبر والسلوان
ونحن على العهد .. نحن على العهد .. نحن على العهد ..النصر للأحرار ,
إدلب :

1- محمد بن خير الدين سيد عيسى من ادلب
2- وسيم عبد الحميد صادق من بنش في إدلب
3- عبد الرزاق زكريا، 26 سنة
4- جمال معروف
5- نضال الحسن
6- علي بكران
7- صالح صيداوي

درا :
1-عبد الله ابو السل
2-أحمد المسالمة
3-عبدالله أبازيد

دمشق :

ركن الدين :

1-نعيم محمد بندي، ركن الدين
2-عمر عبد الجبار اسماعيل، ركن الدين
3-غزوان السيروان في المظاهرات المسائية
4-زرداشت وانلي في المظاهرات المسائية
5-سورو عفريني

القابون :
1-عبد القادر قدور
2-احمد الخشن 28 سنة
3-محمد الشربجي 22 سنة
4-حسن عبد القادر هبول
5-محمد خير الحموي 17 سنة
6-محمد ابراهيم سيفو من اهالي السلمية
7-عمر سعيد القصير من اهالي ادلب
8-جمال عبد الواحد 23 سنة
9-اياد رياض البغدادي 13 سنة
10-فهد بن عبد الرحمن الدباس
11-وليد ليلا من سكان القابون (بلدة حفير في ريف دمشق )
12-عمر الخطيب ابو عبادة
13-عبد المنعم الحمصي ابو الخير
14-احمد وجدي صادق عبد الحليم
15- احمد المدني
16- مازن غنام

القدم
1-صلاح راغب شامية
2-محمد فؤاد محضر
3-محمد منيرة

برزة البلد :
1-محي الدين سواقية

ريف دمشق :

جوبر :
1- طلحة دلال(طفل)

دوما :

1-صالح ياسين الصيداوي 23 سنة

حمص :

1-محمد نور الكحيل حي الخالدية
2 – جمال رجوب
3- عامر ياسين حوسة استشهد في حمص وهو من اللاذقية
4-عدنان الزير-باب سباع

July 16th, 2011, 11:20 am

 

Aboud said:

@129 “The armed gangs, young vigilante thugs in the streets on Fridays, destruction of infrastructure and private property, and, killings of security personnel should be clear enough for all to see.”

Uh hu. Typical Baathist fantasies. Here is part of the interview with Ambassador Ford, the link to Professor Landis has conveniently provided, if your stomach can bear to read the article;

“Compared to only a few months ago, the opposition has expanded and organized impressively, and has demonstrated phenomenal courage and remained largely non-violent. In part he chose Hama for his dramatic outing because “people in Hama over the last two months have been very conspicuous in avoiding violence.” He noted that while touring Hama he saw nearly a dozen government buildings, unguarded, with only two broken windows on one building. Compare that, he wryly noted, to the extensive damage to his Embassy inflicted by the regime’s thugs. ”

Shock! Oh my gawd! Apparently the only ones destroying private property are the hired shabiha scums.

“Where’s the moderator who seems to skim passed Abouds comments, instead of editing his comments or banning him?”

I’m self editing if you haven’t noticed. I understand how it might upset you to see your murdering, despicable thugs openly being called scum, when four months ago they had free rein in the country. Never again.

July 16th, 2011, 11:22 am

 

N.Z. said:

Nour, in every society they are extremists, that being said, I cannot and will not except some of the extremists on this site to call the protesters as MB’s, Salafis etc.. they are our living consciousness, they are what we wish to do, but afraid to. They are the creme de la creme of us all. We all are jotting a phrase here, and a comment there, while they and their families are risking their lives for all Syrians, inside and outside. Dehumanizing their nobility amounts to treason, in my humble opinion. And let me clarify, a Muslim Brotherhood member is not someone I trust, their history is as corrupt as the Baath. On the other hand I will not wipe them off the map.

The same applies to the regime, there may be few good ones, however, that does negate the fact that this regime is rotten and needs to be ousted. The Baath is as corrupt, as well, will not wipe them off the map.

To magnify a few good or a few bad does not change the reality. Especially, when all the supporters claim, that yes we want change.

It sounds like a broken record, everytime, someone label the other as MB or…..How about labeling someone as a baa’thist? is it a slur? I will not regardless.

July 16th, 2011, 11:31 am

 

syau said:

Who is attacking who? People rallying in support of reforms come under attack by some of the revolutions gangs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6Ujyw96ssE&feature=youtu.be

By the way, I’m not interested in anything Ambassador Ford has to say and your comments in #124 are a perfect example of your ‘self editing’ over the past few months.

And please enlighten me, according to you, how many ‘shabiha’ are there, going by your comments; they and the 4th division are responsible for everything, and, seem to be in many places at once. There must be millions upon millions of them…everywhere!

July 16th, 2011, 11:32 am

 

why-discuss said:

Abboud

As you friend of Tel Aviv repeats it: You have a great sense of humor! You posts are very entertaining and hilarious. Especially you use of My Gawd, uh uh, so cool!
Your only serious competitor in the same vein is Democracynow.

July 16th, 2011, 11:32 am

 

Revlon said:

Scores of military security personel have defected and are guarding civilians in Al Bukamal.
The power of the regime is breaking apart at the fringes.

من مصادرنا الخاصة في مدينة البوكمال || في سابقة تعتبر هي الأولى من نوعها والتي ستحدث منعطفاً هاماً في مسلسل الانشقاقات المتزايدة في صفوف نظام آل الأسد، تم التأكد من انشقاق العشرات من عناصر ” الأمن
العسكري ” في مدينة البوكمال بالاضافة الى أعداد كبيرة من عناصر الجيش

July 16th, 2011, 11:34 am

 

Tara said:

Syau,

This where the problem is  and you are refusing to see it.  One must talk the talk AND walk the walk.  Announcing reforms means NOTHING.  ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.  He is trying to buy time.  And time unfortunately is not on Syria’s side.  Just try for one second to ” step out” of your self.  Assads are not Syria.  You want the same Syria I want and I know you know it.  A tolerant and democratic one.  We want to live with you guys.  We do not want alawi state and sunni state.  We do not want Aroor state.  We do not want a puppet state.  We do not want a saudi state.  I certainly do not want to eventually wake up to a new reality I never expected but if it happens, it is the Assad fault.  He is not the country.  We are the country.  You, me and everyone else.  He is just a one man ( and ugly too).  Assad is the problem.  He  needs to step down or announcing that he is stepping down in 6 month to a year.  

July 16th, 2011, 11:35 am

 

Akbar Palace said:

The Double Standard: Example 3702D

(Arab lives are cheap unless confronting the evil Zionists)

Syria:

32 Terrorists killed yesterday.

http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-security-forces-tear-gas-protesters-110959239.html

What does the Arab League have to say about it?

Nothing.

Israel:

Israel killed 9 armed passengers while defending their own lives, and all hell breaks out:

The UN Security Council condemned “those acts which resulted in the loss of lives” and called for a prompt investigation conforming to international standards.[220][231][232][233] The UN Human Rights Council called the attack outrageous and dispatched a fact-finding mission to investigate violations of international law.[234][235] Unofficial responses included civilian demonstrations in Malaysia and Lebanon.[236] There were also some rallies in support of Israel. British Prime Minister David Cameron described the “Israeli attack” as “completely unacceptable.”[237]

Israel–Turkey relations reached a low point after the incident. Turkey recalled its ambassador, cancelled joint military exercises, and called for an emergency meeting of the UN Security Council. Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan harshly referred to the raid as a “bloody massacre” and “state terrorism”, and harshly criticized Israel in a speech before the Grand National Assembly.[text 9] The Turkish Grand National Assembly held a debate on whether to impose sanctions on Israel, and eventually came out with a statement criticizing the attack as illegal, demanding that Israel apologize, pay compensation, and prosecute those involved, and calling on the Turkish government to review ties with Israel and take “effective measures”. The flotilla raid was among the issues discussed during a security meeting of Turkish military commanders chaired by Prime Minister Erdoğan.[238]

Several entertainers canceled appearances in Israel.[239] Iran’s Red Crescent organised an aid shipment that was called off after being informed that Egypt would prevent it from passing through the Suez Canal.[240] B. Lynn Pascoe, United Nations Under-Secretary-General for Political Affairs, cautioned “such convoys were not helpful in resolving Gaza’s basic economic problems and needlessly carried the potential for escalation”.[241] “Our stated preference has been and remains that aid should be delivered by established routes,” the United Nations spokesman said, prior to new Lebanese ships sailing to Gaza on 23 July 2010, “There are established routes for supplies to enter by land. That is the way aid should be delivered to the people of Gaza.” [242] Israel’s United Nations Ambassador Gabriela Shalev said in letter to Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon about new Gaza-bound ships: “Israel reserves its right under international law to use all necessary means to prevent these ships from violating the … naval blockade”.[243]

The Gaddafi International Charity and Development Foundation,
a Libyan charity organization headed by Saif al-Islam Muammar Al-Gaddafi, chartered the MV Amalthea to deliver humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip. The ship carried food, medical supplies[244] and pre-fabricated houses[245] and docked at the port of El Arish, Egypt on 14 July[246] from where the supplies were reportedly to be taken to Gaza by road. The humanitarian aid and supplies were donated by Greek companies and charities.[244]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid

July 16th, 2011, 11:36 am

 

why-discuss said:

Arab world faces long, painful road, says Islamic group head

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=arab-world-faces-long-painful-road-says-islamic-group-head-2011-07-15

…..Q: How do you see the situation in Syria?

A: I have a friendship with Syrian officials dating back many years. Even at the times when relations between Turkey and Syria were at their worst, I always believed the day would come when they would be the closest countries. This is dictated by the geographical realities, by history, by sociology. When I first met Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in 2004, I came to know him as someone open to the world, open to change. Until I became secretary-general, Syria was not active in the OIC. But we organized two ministerial meetings in Syria. So within the framework of this relationship, we could talk with unprecedented honesty, giving the message that the world is changing and that Syria need to change.

Q: Has al-Assad disappointed you?

A: Unfortunately Syria has not acted with the speed one would have expected. There was not enough progress ahead of the demonstrations that took place. But the national dialogue process that started recently is a very important step. We hope this trend will continue.
…..

July 16th, 2011, 11:43 am

 

syau said:

Revlon,

The psychological warfare your Syrian revolution 2011 is playing at is pathetic and no one with a right mind will fall for it.

Cried once, cried twice, how does the story go again?

July 16th, 2011, 11:45 am

 

jad said:

SyAu,
Doudi is having his usual breakdown, he does this theatrical dramatic scene from time to time when someone doesn’t agree with every coma he writes, similar to the mentality of the dictatorship he is attacking, no discussion or dialogue, he must have the last word of else, and if he is really mad he will start addressing people with their comment’s number as a prove of his superiority then he loose it and start yelling scum this and scum that, shabiha, baathist and of course the classic menhebak.

July 16th, 2011, 11:48 am

 

why-discuss said:

Syria releases 28 anti-government intellectuals

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-07/16/c_13989634.htm

July 16th, 2011, 11:54 am

 

Aboud said:

@134 I must start to have become telepathic. Even before I clicked on your link, I just knew it would be the video of the Qatna incident. Heck, I was already formulating a reply in my head while the video loaded.

(One thing I will admit is that the Internet lines have been superb since they came back after an 11 day outage. Always getting top download speeds no matter what the day, and not a single dropped connection. You poor feeble Americans, when will you be blessed with the reliability of Syrian lines. Muwahahahaha)

Do you see a single gun in the clip? Rifle? Boom-action (whatever the hell that’s supposed to be)?

No, what you see is a bunch of kids mad as hell that people from outside the village, came in and provokingly started waving around the Hizbollah flag. If someone from our side were to go to Al-Hadara Street and wave about Aror’s picture, then he deserves whatever he’s got coming.

In these delicate times, it is the height of folly for people to go out of their way to deliberately provoke others. Who was the fool who thought that waving Hezbollah flags in Qatna would be a good idea? It’s not even a Syrian flag, Nasrallah isn’t even a Syrian leader. Wave Bashar’s picture, fine, at least he is a Syrian.

But this? This was crass, thoughtless and highly provocative. All Syrians should maintain higher standards of behavior and maturity.

Jad @141 *throws flowers* “and if he is really mad he will start addressing people with their comment’s number as a prove of his superiority”

Sorry, Tara warned me about that. I’m not used to replying to posts on a single thread forum like this. Most forum software allows for threaded comments. I assure you I don’t consider myself superior. I’m just way more intelligent and insightful :p

July 16th, 2011, 11:54 am

 

abughassan said:

I am still waiting for a “clam” answer to the questions I asked about the conference in Turkey. I know enough about the regime and security forces,abboud,and I do not think this regime is expected to be accommodating to the opposition that wants to replace it,but nobody outside Syria should interfere with our affairs.A number of credible opposition figures have attacked the conference and the shadow government,not just me,this includes:
Burhan Galioum,Louia Hussain and Fayez Sara
Despite all of that, I am willing to look at the names they will propose,my loyalty is to Syria,not Bashar or the MB.

July 16th, 2011, 11:55 am

 

Tara said:

Jad

Sorry but I can’t hold my self from saying this anymore.

I would know we achieved a milestone on SC when you start to accept a non- flattering opinion in regard to Bassam Alkadi articles without calling us names.

July 16th, 2011, 11:58 am

 

why-discuss said:

Jad

#141
Is there a psychiatrist on board?

July 16th, 2011, 11:58 am

 

why-discuss said:

AbuGhassan

There seems to be a power fight between the two oppositions. I hope this will act as a stimulation to the local opposition who has been rather apathetic until now.

July 16th, 2011, 12:01 pm

 

N.Z. said:

“arresting Mai Skaff and colleagues. For god sake, is she an MB?”

A question that begs an answer, did you see her interview on Alarabiyah? she points out to men who seem ready to attack her, they are more scary than the interrogators she encountered during her 3 days ordeal in prison. They are called “shabihat el nizam”. In other words, apologists of the nizam.

She can not be an MB, she is either a Muslim Sisterhood or a Syrianhood.

July 16th, 2011, 12:01 pm

 

Aboud said:

Abughassan @144 “and I do not think this regime is expected to be accommodating to the opposition that wants to replace it”

Then the regime has completely and utterly failed to understand and comprehend the most basic principles of a democratic state, and by your statement you clearly expect no better from them. Yet again, a clear-as-day example of how the regime’s notions of dialogue are just a desperate play for time.

Does the UK Conservative government deny the Labor opposition access to conference rooms and the media? Do the Democrats ban the Republicans the same? Kindly stop making excuses for the regime, and condoning the way they treat the entire country as their property, to deny and allow conferences at whim.

“She can not be an MB, she is either a Muslim Sisterhood or a Syrianhood.”

LOL! Yeah, the name Muslim Brotherhood is pretty sexist. But according to the way the regime has in the past charged even Christians with membership to the MB, they seem to be an open minded bunch.

July 16th, 2011, 12:05 pm

 

Tara said:

Why,

Yes we need a psychiatrist for shock therapy. It may work well. But guess for whom?

Supporters,

I am so intrigued when you call Ford visit foreign intervention and you leave Iran intelligence and military support without a title? Shock therapy anyone?

July 16th, 2011, 12:07 pm

 

syau said:

Jad,

Lol.

What sickens me is, people that die at the hands of the revolutionists do not even get acknowledged, or they are listed on the martyrs that were killed by the bullets of security forces. As if that will make their death go unnoticed. It seems so easy for them to blame everything on the ‘shabiha’ or one division of the army, that they make out to be everywhere at once and think the word scum makes it sound more real. But God forbid they admit the existence of the murderous armed gangs.

Take a look at this clip, where the shooting spree of the ‘non existant’ armed gangs shooting at the security personnel kill a man, but when they see a clip such as this, they will claim it weak.

July 16th, 2011, 12:09 pm

 

Aboud said:

Tara @150 George Orwell has a name for it; doublethink, the ability to hold two contradicting thoughts in one’s head and actually believe both to be true.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink

The Baathists always remind me of that book, especially the way they are always changing the name of their enemy. “We are at war with Eurasia! Down with Eurasia! No wait, now it’s Eastasia! We’ve always been at war with Eastasia!”

SYAU @151 I’d like someone who is an expert in ballisticsto please enlighten me….HOW THE HELL COULD HE HAVE GOTTEN SHOT LIKE THAT?

First, from what *possible* angle did he get hit? There is someone covering him from behind, who is unscathed. And there is a wall to his right. And finally, his friend is covering him from the left. And yet, the video clearly shows his wound as being inflicted to his chest, from the front, not the side or to the back.

Unlike you, I do not gloat over any loss of life, but if you are going to post claims of armed gangs, be prepared to have answers ready to such obvious questions.

July 16th, 2011, 12:13 pm

 

N.Z. said:

Aboud,

Seems that Syria is more loyal to Bashar. That is why abughassan’s loyalty is to Syria.

Sounds complicated, but it s not.

July 16th, 2011, 12:13 pm

 

why said:

Clinton calls Syria’s Assad to end violence against demonstrators

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-07/16/c_13989429.htm

ISTANBUL, July 16 (Xinhua) — U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton Saturday called on the Syrian government to end all acts of violence against peaceful demonstrators immediately.

“We do not know how things will turn out in Syria but what we do know is that Bashar al-Assad’s government while promising reforms continues to shoot at peaceful demonstrators and this needs to stop,” said Hillary Clinton in Istanbul.

Clinton was answering questions posed by youth and members of non-governmental organizations during a live appearance on Turkish TV channel CNN-Turk. She attended the Fourth Meeting of the Libya Contact Group on Friday.

“I don’t know anyone who was able to predict the exact events,” said Clinton, referring to events across North Africa and the Middle East.

“It is the people of those countries that can enact change. What we want is to help those countries during their transition to democracy,” she said, adding that the United States is working with many countries, including Turkey, to provide financial assistance toward that end.

Referring to Syria, Clinton said, “Stability is required but it must be the right kind of stability.”

She said they wanted to see a peaceful transition in Yemen and reforms in Jordan and Bahrain among other countries.

July 16th, 2011, 12:14 pm

 

Amir in Tel Aviv said:

Tribal Jad is a chauvinist and he treats with rudeness any one who is not like him: male, Arab, reactionary.
Remember his remarks on women, and the role women should play in society?
Many years in the west couldn’t change this mentality, so don’t even try, Tara.
.

July 16th, 2011, 12:14 pm

 

Revlon said:

Mr Ford’s charm in Hama is still holding; No casualties this weekend!

I urge the ground opposition, vested by their popular legtimacy to affirm their authority on the ground, by extending invitations to Ambassador Ford and those of UK, France, and Germany to attend as observers in their forthcomming meetings.

It is time that leaders of the ground opposition start to build on the new momentum that was gained by declaring the illegitimacy of the regime and the recent backing and pledge of support of Mr Ford and his fellow Amabassadors in the free world, to ensure and exapand the space for freedom of expression by the protestors.

July 16th, 2011, 12:21 pm

 

OFF THE WALL said:

ABUGHASSAN

According to Burhan Ghalyoun’s speech in the conference, it seems that the shadow government idea has been dropped despite of the incredible weight Maleh brings to it. Also Maleh, Ghalyoun, and the conference secretary seem to highlight that those conferring would be very wrong to think that they represent or replace the others or speak on behalf of the whole opposition. It seems to me that a new tradition is emerging that is based on accepting the others and avoiding pretentious postures. Ghalyoun’s participation, i believe has a big role in doing that.

The best words of today were Ghalyoun’s (cut and paste from Aboud’s post):

“لا يمكن لمن شن الحرب على الشعب وخرج عن القانون وانتهك الدستور أن يكون قائدا للشعب إلى السلام ولا أن يكون الضامن للدستور الديمقراطي في المستقبل”.

As for being free to hold conference in Syria, I guess situation on the ground proved otherwise. Just recall the ordeal the thugs had May Eskaf and her 8 colleagues go through today and you find that ze3ran al-asad (AKA shabibeh) are still around as they are here. May was absolutely correct in stating that they are more dangerous than most of the security officers. It is these ze3ran that the country will have to deal with and rehabilitate both mentally and behaviorally (if possible) after the eternal one becomes the past one, in due time.

Aboud: Thanks for the reference and reminder to “doublethink”,

July 16th, 2011, 12:24 pm

 

syau said:

Reports of about 200 armed men storming the Regional administration department and seizing control of it, including all weapons.
They burned the civil affairs office, the court, the police post and the resident house of the Regional administrator, in Al Bokamal

http://www.shukumaku.com/Content.php?id=30076

More merry peaceful protesters on the loose it seems.

July 16th, 2011, 12:28 pm

 

Tara said:

Abboud

In case supporters did not open your link. Double thinking:

” To know and not to know, …. to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget, whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself — that was the ultimate subtlety; consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you just did..”

“To use logic against logic”……. Outstanding!!

July 16th, 2011, 12:37 pm

 

why-discuss said:

Clinton avoids repeating the ‘deligitimization’ statement
and ‘hopes’ for reforms

http://news.yahoo.com/syrians-mourn-slain-protesters-opposition-meets-125220907.html

“What’s happening in Syria is very uncertain and troubling because many of us had hoped that President Assad would make the reforms that were necessary,” U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told reporters in Istanbul on Saturday. “The brutality has to stop, there must be a legitimate sincere effort with the opposition to try to make changes.”

“Yesterday we witnessed the largest demonstrations to date in Syria, an effort to try to convey directly to the government the pent-up desire of the Syrian people for the kind of reforms that they have been promised,” she added.

July 16th, 2011, 12:37 pm

 

5 dancing shlomos said:

the syrian people call on the zionized u.s. to end its violence against syria. while putting an end to your violence knock off your lies.

the civilized part of the world is tired of you and your master, the shitty one.

July 16th, 2011, 12:38 pm

 

Tara said:

Syau

You did not answer my question. Why is Bashar not announcing that he will step down after the dialogue takes place and a road map for freedom and democracy is established? Wouldn’t that save us from any bad scenario?

Is it about Besho or about Syria? Can supporters make the mental distinction between the two?

July 16th, 2011, 12:49 pm

 

jad said:

Tara
“when you start to accept a non- flattering opinion”
You apparently have no clue of my comments on SC

“calling us names”
You like to accuse me of something I don’t do, don’t you?

“Calling”
when did I call you anything but Tara?
“us”
who are ‘us’ and who are ‘them’? for me we all are the same.
“names”?
Go check all my comments, the few times I called anybody on here anything it was only when the other person cross the line and personally attacked me, otherwise every person on SC knows that exchanging comment with me wont get him/her anything but respectful and honest reply.

May I ask you not to accuse me of anything anymore.
Thank you

The prince
“Remember his remarks on women, and the role women should play in society?”
Please remind us of what tribal Jad wrote about women

July 16th, 2011, 12:51 pm

 

Norman said:

Abughassan

Do you think that the reason the opposition did not hold the meeting in Syria because they are afraid to be called collaborators with the regime and be killed by the opposition who wants nothing less than chaos, as they did killing a man in Rastan that was trying to calm things down between the armed men of Rastan and the government.

July 16th, 2011, 12:52 pm

 

abughassan said:

yes,abboud and all,I expect very little from the regime and I do not trust Bashar and I want a regime change. My problem with some is the lack of vision. Syrians must start preparing for the post-Bashar era but not by holding a meeting in Turkey and forming a shadow government.the focus should be on keeping pressure to enact political reform which will allow free elections and end albaath domination.

July 16th, 2011, 12:53 pm

 

Norman said:

Tara,

you want democracy but still want Bashar Assad to resign, why don’t you or one of your people run against him in a fair and clean election and let us see, the idea that you can shove one of the opposition down our throat to be president and call that democracy is ludicrous.

You want to fight you will lose you want equal access to it , you are welcome , we are not going to change one dictatorship with another and wait another 40 years.

by the way , I do not think that he should run in 2014, but he does, he got my vote, If i can vote.

July 16th, 2011, 1:00 pm

 

jad said:

From twitter:
مصادر اعلامية :تجميد العلاقات الدبلوماسية بين سوريا و قطر و طرد السفير القطري و عائلته و الموظفين الدبلوماسين القطريين من دمشق !!

July 16th, 2011, 1:01 pm

 

Tara said:

Jad,

Come on. Check your comment . ” naive” is name calling. Don’t you think? It is a subjective description of some one’ mental ability to Judge and it is all in the eyes of the beholder. Am I wrong?

I am not mad though. Really. It adds a flavor to the discussion.

July 16th, 2011, 1:02 pm

 

abughassan said:

the truth is that Syria today is like a soup with many tasty ingredients and some poisonous substances. Some people here and elsewhere are not objective,they either deny the existence of thugs and terrorists who infiltrated the uprising,or they insist that the regime only fired on armed Mundasseen. brutal regime thugs and evil anti regime armed rebels are doing the same thing is Syria,they make it harder for Syrians to get out of this mess and they inflame emotions and spread fear and despair. I know that the discussion is a waste of time when the guy on the other side refuse to see the whole picture. for those who choose to forget,the regime is the mother of all evil,but that mother has a husband,kids and some relatives too !!

July 16th, 2011, 1:02 pm

 

jad said:

WD,
What do you think of Clinton being in Istanbul the same time of the opposition Syrian conference

Bad day in Syria:

سبت مليء بالأحداث على غير العادة.. الاعتداء على مرافق عامة بالبوكمال وأنباء عن سقوط قتلى

الإفراج عن المعتقلين في مظاهرة المثقفين بالميدان في دمشق.. وأكثر من 300 معارض يعقدون مؤتمرا في اسطنبول
يبدو وان يوم السبت, لم يكن كما غيره مقارنة بايام السبت الماضية من كل اسبوع, حيث شهد ارتفاعا في وتيرة الأحداث التي تمر فيها سورية منذ خروج تظاهرات في عدة مدن سورية في الأشهر الأربعة الأخيرة, والتي تركزت ايام الجمعة.

فقد أفاد التلفزيون السوري أن مجموعات مسلحة قامت بحرق مخفر الشرطة في البوكمال بمحافظة دير الزور ودائرة النفوس وهاجمت مبنى مدير منزل مدير المنطقة وحرقت المحكمة, لافتا إلى أن هذه المجموعات المسلحة اقتحمت مبنى قيادة المنطقة واستولت على الأسلحة الموجودة فيه وبعض المسلحين ينتشرون على أسطح الأبنية.
كما أفاد التلفزيون السوري أن “عددا من عناصر حراسة المباني العامة التي هاجمتها مجموعات مسلحة في البوكمال بمحافظة دير الزور أصيبوا، وان عنصرا من حفظ النظام استشهد جراء الهجوم, فيما اصيب اخرون بجروح”.
فيما تناقلت محطات فضائية عن مصادر حقوقية قولها عن سقوط قتيلين وإصابة 20 آخرين بجروح برصاص, محملة الأمن السوري مسؤولية سقوط هؤلاء.
وشهدت دير الزور خروج الآلاف يوم أمس الجمعة في مظاهرات تنادي بالحرية وشعارات مناهضة بالنظام, في غياب اي تواجد امني ملحوظ.
وفي قطنا, شهدت الساعات الأولى من اليوم أعمال عنف, إذ قال عدد من اهالي قطنا انه تم سماع صوت لإطلاق نار من الساعة الثانية عشر منتصف ليل الجمعة السبت وحتى الساعة السادسة صباحا, وإنها جاءت على خليفة إحداث الأربعاء التي شهدت اشتباكات بين مؤيدين ومعارضين للنظام.
وقال أحد سكان مدينة قطنا أن “عددا من أبناء قطنا توجه إلى مساكن للعسكريين ومساكن التوافيق وأطلقوا النار على المساكن ومقر للأمن العسكري وقاموا بالتكبير وبحرق محل إسفنج في مساكن التوفيق وحاولوا حرق محطة وقود الجبل, ردا على أحداث يوم الأربعاء”, لافتا إلى أن “عناصر الأمن ردت بإطلاق النار بعد الهجوم على المفرزة”.
وكان عدد من أهالي قطنا قاموا يوم الأربعاء بالاعتداء على مسيرة مؤيدة للرئيس بشار الاسد تجمعوا بساحة البلدية, بقنابل المولوتوف, كما قاموا بوضع حواجز بالطرقات ورفعوا علم قال بعض من الأهالي انه علم لإمارة سلفية.
كما اعتدى حاجز أقامه عدد من أبناء قطنا يوم الأربعاء على احد أبناء وجهاء منطقة بقعسم وابنه وهذا ما أثار حفيظة المنطقة, الأمر الذي أدى إلى نزول عدد من أهالي تلك القرى إلى قطنا وحدوث اشتباكات وحرق محلات, وذلك بحسب أهالي.
وفي الرستن, أفاد مراسل سيريانيوز في حمص عن استشهاد أحد وجهاء مدينة الرستن، عبد القادر طلاس، يوم السبت, على يد مسلحين قاما بإطلاق النار عليه.
وذكر أحد أقارب الشهيد لمراسلنا في حمص أن “طلاس قام أمس الجمعة بمحاولات لتهدئة المتظاهرين ضمن لجنة شعبية قام بتشكيلها لحوار المتظاهرين وتهدئة الحركات الاحتجاجية في المدينة”.
وفي دمشق, تحدثت تقارير إعلامية عن قيام النيابة العامة في دمشق، بإطلاق سراح جميع المشاركين الذين تم اعتقالهم في المظاهرة، التي نظمها مثقفون سوريون، يوم الأربعاء الماضي، أمام جامع الحسن في حي الميدان بدمشق، من بينهم مي سكاف، وريما فليحان، ويم مشهدي.
وتجمع نحو 200 شخص من فنانين وصحفيين، يوم الأربعاء الماضي، عند جامع الحسن في منطقة الميدان بدمشق، لتنفيذ تظاهرة تم الدعوة إليها عبر موقع التواصل الاجتماعي “فيسبوك”، إلا أن التواجد الأمني المشدد منعهم من ذلك، فيما تم اعتقال عدد منهم، بينهم صحفيين وفنانين، كما تعرض واحد على الأقل منهم إلى إصابة جراء ضرب.
خارجيا, عقد اكثر من 300 معارض مؤتمرا اطلقوا عليه “مؤتمر انقاذ وطني” في اسطنبول جمع اكثر من 300 معلنا نيته العمل على جمع شمل المعارضة.
ومن المفترض ان يتفق المجتمعون في مؤتمر اسطنبول على “خارطة طريق لتحرك المعارضة”, كما ان تقارير إعلامية أشارت إلى أن المجتمعين تراجعوا عن مشروعهم الذي يتناول تشكيل “حكومة ظل” بعد انتقادات طالتهم بشأن الصفة التمثيلية للمؤتمر.
وشهدت عدة مدن سورية منذ 4 أشهر خروج مظاهرات تنادي بمطالب عامة وشعارات مناهضة للنظام, تزامنت مع سقوط مئات الشهداء من المدنيين وعسكريين وعناصر امن, حملت السلطات مسؤولية هذا الأمر إلى جماعات مسلحة, فيما يتهم نشطاء حقوقيون السلطات باستخدام العنف لإسكات الاحتجاجات.

سيريانيوز

http://syria-news.com/readnews.php?sy_seq=135033
———————————————-

Abughassan,
“brutal regime thugs and evil anti regime armed rebels are doing the same thing is Syria,they make it harder for Syrians to get out of this mess and they inflame emotions and spread fear and despair.”
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, the radicals are the ones winning this game over all Syrians.

July 16th, 2011, 1:07 pm

 

jad said:

Tara,
Seriously? that what you could come with? calling a comment as naive is ‘name calling’..now I feel very ‘naive’ that I even answered you.
No need to reply.

July 16th, 2011, 1:10 pm

 

Tara said:

Norman

” fair and clean election”. You must be kidding. Like the one brought him to power 11 years ago or even brought his daddy 40 years ago.

Free and clean election with shabbiha at the voting booth asking you to declare Bashar as your divine god or else….

You want to vote for someone who is directly or indirectly responsible for 2000 death including the army and security officers. Go right ahead. I won’t. A man ( or a women) is defined by what he stands for Norman. Don’t you think?

July 16th, 2011, 1:11 pm

 

jad said:

“اطلاق نار بكثافة غير معهودة في حمص ومئات الرسائل والاتصالات من جميع احياء مدينة حمص ويستغيثون ويطالبون بدخول الجيش الى المدينة بعد ان اصبح الوضع الامني في المدينة لايطاق”

“عاجل : الزهراء || حـمص : مخربون من خارج المنطقة قامو بالهجوم على بعض محال المنطقة ” الزهراء ” و تخريبها”

July 16th, 2011, 1:17 pm

 

Afram said:

coming soon to syria,,MB sharia law

http://youtu.be/6V82MBIr8aw

July 16th, 2011, 1:22 pm

 

ss said:

What do you expect from Radical Islamist Men Driven thugs and gangs. Do you expect peace? Hell no. Of course they will randomly shoot people in the streets of Homs and elswhere.

July 16th, 2011, 1:24 pm

 

Tara said:

Afram,

This is terrifying.

In what country did this occur? Indonesia or the Phillipine? What was that? The link called it stoning but this is not stoning I would imagine?Why were there police officer?

In what countries other than the KSA shariaa law exist?

July 16th, 2011, 1:38 pm

 

Revlon said:

Dear Yazan, any confirmation on Jad’s post?
175. jad said:

“عاجل : الزهراء || حـمص : مخربون من خارج المنطقة قامو بالهجوم على بعض محال المنطقة ” الزهراء ” و تخريبها”

July 16th, 2011, 1:45 pm

 

Aboud said:

Post 176 is in very poor taste. It has nothing to do with Syria, and whoever posted it has atrocious judgement. It’s interesting to see what company the Baathists keep.

July 16th, 2011, 1:46 pm

 

Aboud said:

179, there’s alot of sh*t going on in Homs right now, I’m not about to post rumors of rumors.

July 16th, 2011, 1:48 pm

 

Norman said:

Tara,
Cool down, I said free and clean election like the one we have in the US not like the ones we had in Syria,in the last 40 years, It is the new Syria where all can have a chance , about the 2000 dead you blame on him, HE DID NOT START IT , YOU DID , you should be shamed of all this misery you caused Syria and the Syrians.

July 16th, 2011, 1:50 pm

 

Tara said:

Abboud,

What countries practice Shariaa law other than kSA. There were police officers. This was an action sanctioned by the government. They do not look Saudis obviously. So where would this happen?

I just want to know whether this was a application of a shariaa law or some brutal act somewhere nor related to shariaa law but attributed to it as part of a scaremongering/ hatemongering tactic.

July 16th, 2011, 1:54 pm

 

Norman said:

Jad, WD, OTW, others too,

What do you make out of Erdogan and the officials of Turkey being quite on Syria after the election, does it that they wised up to where their interests are.

July 16th, 2011, 1:55 pm

 

MNA said:

“You want to vote for someone who is directly or indirectly responsible for 2000 death including the army and security officers.”

Since the MB is directly or indirectly responsible for the killing of thousands of people including Hama, would this apply to them if one of their leaders decides to run in a presidential election

July 16th, 2011, 1:58 pm

 

why-discuss said:

Tara

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/aug/20/qanda.islam

….An Islamic court in Nigeria yesterday upheld a sentence of death by stoning for a woman accused of adultery. The case is the latest in a series of sentences passed under sharia law – a set of religious laws adopted over the past two years in northern regions of Nigeria, which have predominantly Muslim inhabitants.

“Sharia governs the lives of people in ways which are not governed by the law,” says Lynn Welchman, director of the Centre for Islamic and Middle Eastern Law. “Over 50 countries are members of the Organisation of Islamic Conference, and you can expect there will be some form of compliance with sharia – either in people’s personal lives or enforced through the courts by the state.

A lot of states in the Middle East are taking more elements of sharia into their state laws.”

July 16th, 2011, 2:00 pm

 

majedkhaldoon said:

Abughassan said:
“number of credible opposition figures have attacked the conference and the shadow government,not just me,this includes:
Burhan Galioum,Louia Hussain and Fayez Sara”
That was in comment # 146
Burhan Ghalyon attacked the conference!Burhan was there and he spoke in the conference, he did not attack the conference.

Norman you can vote, but I like for the next election to be fair,and not rigged one.
The regime ,and the pro regime are not serious about reform,nor I expect a dictator to lead reform, the pro Assad are not pro Syria,they are only pro Assad clan,there is not much time for a free election, the regime will change first.
There is no sense discussing rationally with the pro regime who worship Assad, what we need is to find out how we will change the regime without american help,We need to organise,to resort to secret measures so the regime will not know our steps,secrecy is very important thing,we need to unite,demonstrations only will not change the regime,unless it is massive,that include Dimashq and Halab, we need to contact the officers in the army and increase their support,and also contact the rich segment in Syria.
Iran is helping the syrian regime financially,this will ruin Iran,and will lead to the collapse of Iranian regime.
There is no diference between extreme Muslems and extreme Christians(Crusaders).

July 16th, 2011, 2:01 pm

 

Tara said:

Norman

I would accept him if he was reelected in a free and clean election similar to the US election. Do you like that?

No, he started it. And you know it. He got silent on torturing children by cousin Atef, then he remained quite-er on shooting protestors in Daraa asking for the children freedom. didn’t you hear his silence?

July 16th, 2011, 2:03 pm

 

Tara said:

Dear MNA

You need to read my previous posts to know how I feel about MB. I just do not have mental energy yo repeat myself. Sorry to sound dry.

I won’t vote for anyone who have blood on his hand if that can answer your question.

July 16th, 2011, 2:09 pm

 

Revlon said:

159 Dear Off The Wall,
I am glad Mr Ghalyoon have stepped out of his self imposed confinement to intellectual activism and joind his fellow pragmatists in Istanbul.

It is imperative upon the revolution, following their land mark achievement of declaring the regime illegitimate that they act responsibly and swiftly to establish an alternative legitimacy to the one they declared void.

It is the structure, functions and capacity of this legitimate body that should be the subject of debate, rather than the principle.

Until the ground oppostion becomes better empowered and protected, perhaps by the international community, the opposition in exile represented by Istanbul meeting participants could and should assume this responsibility. The ground opposition, who gave them the green light, can join once able to do so.

July 16th, 2011, 2:12 pm

 

abughassan said:

The regime wants to us now to be happy and thankful because the artists arrested in Al-Midaan are now free !!
Those artists did not deserve to be arrested in the first place,who needs enemies when you have al-mukhabarat as your friend ?
I was told that new promises and decisions will be announced by Wednesday,but I lost confidence in this president and his ability to keep his word, those announcements are still useful and significant because they will put the regime under the microscope and magnify its inability to deliver.Syrians have no choice but to keep pushing for a new regime. violence,internal or external,may be used by thugs who could not care less about democracy,they would rather have a Theocracy,KSA-Iran style,Kingorepublic(Makhlouf-style)or a Dollacracy,Hariri-style.

July 16th, 2011, 2:13 pm

 

Revlon said:

184 Dear Norman,
“Quiet” Erdugan/Turkey is hosting opposition meeting to form a Syrian government in exile.
Need he say more?

July 16th, 2011, 2:27 pm

 

why-discuss said:

Norman

In my view, for the time being , Turkey and the US want Bashar to go on with the reforms. Ford has seen in Hama that the opposition is in reaction mode and have no plan whatsoever.
Ford has admitted that he wouldn’t go to Homs because the opposition there was using violence.
They are well aware that the intellectuals in the opposition in Syria are undecided and apathetic.
Overall the US and Turkey see no progress in the opposition and see that the governnement is slow in attracting more opposition in the dialog. So they try to get it moving.

Turkey is having its own crisis with the PKK and they do not want instability with the Kurds in North Of Syria. There is no one than the present government to guarantee stability there now.

After the failure of Antalya meeting, Turkey and the US are making a second attempt to test the x-opposition’s ability to become stronger and more united with the local opposition either to go into a dialog with the government or take its place.

This meeting is an excellent opportunity for the Syrian government because they will be able to evaluate better their opponents and adjust their strategy accordingly.
My view is that the x-opposition wants Bashar out before dialogs, the local opposition only want a stop to violence before dialogs.
Therefore if the x-opposition comes up with murky decisions that are not condoned by the local opposition, there is a very high probability the meeting will fail to unite the two approaches.

This failure will benefit the Syrian government in convincing more opposition leaders to come to the next meeting.

July 16th, 2011, 2:27 pm

 

Aboud said:

“I was told that new promises and decisions will be announced by Wednesday”

Too late my friend. Far, far too late….

July 16th, 2011, 2:28 pm

 

abughassan said:

The three opposition figures i mentioned DID express their opposition to the shadow government,that is why the conference may have to drop that crucial element from its platform, please be factual,khaldoun.
Another note,not to expose myself again to the wrath of conservative muslims here which I respect,few women attended,the vast majority are covered,almost none was given a front seat. again,correct me if I was wrong,the expat opposition looks increasingly non secular,and the remarks of Al-Maleh,who was collected and cool,were not enough to remove that tag (I am calling secularism a tag since religious opposition is now a label)..
The term “madani” state was repeated so many times I thought this was a baathist conference 🙂
Kidding aside,I did not like seeing another conference in Turkey and I thought from day one that a shadow government is a bad idea.
Otherwise,I respect and support any effort to get rid of this regime without the use of violence or foreign intervention.

July 16th, 2011, 2:28 pm

 

why-discuss said:

revlon

191

Wishful thinking…

July 16th, 2011, 2:29 pm

 

Tara said:

Why,

Thank you for your answer. This was savagery… It is shame to call these people Muslims.

I woke up happy today. My mood changed drastically. I am forced to watch things I have never watched before. Blood, killing, beating, torture, and now thousand year old shariaa law have been our new reality for the last 4 months.

I want to stick to Snow White and little mermaid.

July 16th, 2011, 2:31 pm

 

abughassan said:

I agree,abboud,but I still want to hear those announcements.
(pssss: drink some Syrian tea and relax, this is just a blog)

July 16th, 2011, 2:36 pm

 

Nour said:

I am tired of hearing about the “criminal gangs” and the “terrorist groups.” I am tired of hearing about the international conspiracies against Syria. I am tired of hearing of the Arab collaboration against Syria. We know there are armed elements in Syria now. We know that Syria will always be subject to international conspiracies; it is part of the reality of the world. And we know that the Arab regimes are puppets of the US. So what does that mean? What are WE going to do about it? This regime seems to think that everyone is dumb and is going to buy their BS forever. The fact is that this regime is going to fall one way or the other, so they have two choices. Either make the necessary changes that will avert disaster for the entire country, or continue with their thirst for power so that they take the entire country with them. It seems that until know, they are opting for option two.

July 16th, 2011, 2:39 pm

 

why-discuss said:

Abughassan

If this conference represents the future of Syria, then the numerous Syrian women active in the present government may find themselves scarce, covered and in the back seat.
It is obvious that the x-opposition has a strong color of islamic conservatism.
Anyway, what an you expect when you see who is behind the Facebook Syria revolution?

By the way, how do you explain that there are more women in the current Syrian government (including ambassadors) than in the Lebanese one?

July 16th, 2011, 2:40 pm

 

abughassan said:

just want to remind you that Syrian political groups and parties were never united even when their political enemy was the same.
Clashes between MB and Baathists were common in the 1950s and early 60s and tension between progressive secular students and traditional Islamists was always high. In a new and open society,many of those memories will come back (older people told me those stories, I am not that old 🙂 )..

July 16th, 2011, 2:43 pm

 

Revlon said:

193. Dear Aboud, thank you for the link.
Fantastic news; more defections means less fire power on civilians and more saving of lives.

Istanbul meeting participants, probably including commander harmoush are mindful of this development.

It might weigh in the hands of those favouring the formation of a transitional government.

July 16th, 2011, 2:45 pm

 

Afram said:

coming soon to syria,,3ar3oor SUSHI Safari food

http://youtu.be/TH0vY5O1pzI
sharia law is almost practiced actively in all arab world.under the term of honor killing
sudan was partioned recently coz of sharia law fsacim so is east timor in indonesia

July 16th, 2011, 2:46 pm

 

Tara said:

Nour@ 198

I can’t agree more.

Why@ 192

Sound assessment.

July 16th, 2011, 2:54 pm

 

Revlon said:

What is going on in Homs Abboud?

أوغاريت || حمص : قامت قوى الأمن بتكسير كل محل صاحبه سني في شارع الحضارة و دخلت حي الميدان وسط اطلاق نار و أهل الميدان يكبرون من على سطوح و شرف منازلهم الله أكبر

July 16th, 2011, 3:02 pm

 

ss said:

186 Majedkhaldoon,

“Secrecy…….Unite the demonstration….Iran will fall for paying 6 billion dollar to Syria…..will contact officials in the army…”

It looks like physicians make a great leaders….Sure you can do all of that and I would elect you immediately the Amir of Lazekia Dr. Khaldoon.

Great and well excuted MB plan………cheers

July 16th, 2011, 3:06 pm

 

ss said:

204 Revlon:

What I heard and it is all romurs that three or four Alawi were found dead with their bodies mutilated, and cut to peices…..What I heard is that some young Alawi are writing openly on facebook that they are against Assad handling the situation. It looks that those people are angry armed alawite that are fed up with the soft hearted Assad and they are retaliating. Again the coming hours will reveal what is going on. I smell sectarian war on the horizon

July 16th, 2011, 3:12 pm

 

OFF THE WALL said:

NOUR
Welcome…

July 16th, 2011, 3:15 pm

 

N.Z. said:

Ssssssssss, I hear a hissing sound from you SSSSSSSSSSSSS, it is becoming louder by the hour. Not in Syria, Sssssssss Sectarianism have no place in our midst.

July 16th, 2011, 3:16 pm

 

Revlon said:

Philanthropist Makhloof Media’s attempt to fake a video of armed infiltrators raising an Israeli flag was foiled, for it was caught on tape, by the demonstrators!

The Syrian Revolution 2011 الثورة السورية ضد بشار الاسد
حمص ::تنويه هام جدا من أهالي حمص :
– يحاول النظام الفاشل للمرة الألف ان يجد المبررات لإقتحام مدينة حمص بالرغم من التضييق والحواجز الموجودة فيها …. لقد حاول أول الأمر أن ينشر وقائع بأن الجماعات السلفية قد انتشرت في حمص .. وعندها نشر جماعات من الشبيحة بلباس أفغاني وذقون طويلة ولم تنجح معه الخطة بسبب وعي اهل حمص ….. وحاول في المرة الث…انية ان ينشر أكذوبة رفع العلم الإسرائيلي في حي باب السباع … وأيضا باءت محاولته بالفشل الذريع بعد أن فضح أمر قناة الدنيا وهي تحاول تصوير علم اسرائيلي أتى به طاقمها إلى حي باب السباع وحاولوا وضعه هناك وتصويره … ولكن الأهالي كشفوهم وهذا الأمر مثبت بفيديو كان قد نشره أهالي باب السباع لطاقم قناة الدنيا ….. والآن يحاولون نشر أكذوبة الجماعات المسلحة التي تجوب شوارع المدينة حاليا وتعيث فيها خرابا وفي اهلها تقتيلا (((( وهذه الجماعات هي من الشبيحة بلباس مدني ومحمية من الأمن )))) ونحن نقول لهذا النظام الفاشل أن يلعب غير هذه اللعبة , ونقول له أن اهالي حمص اوعى من أن يقعوا في مثل هذه المطبات … وكالعادة فإن هذه اللعبة سوف تنقلب على كل من خطط لها …… التوقيع : أهالي مددينة حمص

July 16th, 2011, 3:20 pm

 

abughassan said:

So,Revoln, are we supposed to waste time here hearing your rumors? you want us to believe that security forces are on a campaign targeting Sunni merchants in Homs at a time when the regime is trying to calm the streets and win support?
Similar rumors were spread about attacks on Alawi-owned businesses and individuals. These rumors,and those acts if true, strengthen thugs on both sides and hurt the average Syrian,Mr Al-Maleh asked his supporters to focus on the future and lay foundation for a new Syria,not to say or do anything that deepens division and actually helps the regime !!
In Homs,there is a mix of armed thugs,unarmed protesters and people in between. There is a movement in Homs to create another Hama and kick the government out(refer to my previous posts if you want),it does not look it gonna work in Homs. Even Hamwis are now talking to mediators to end the strike with conditions,which I totally support.We all know that the last thing Syria needs is a sectarian conflict that will eat everybody including you and me,my friend !!

July 16th, 2011, 3:25 pm

 

Revlon said:

Martyr AbdulMuhaymen AlSuyoofi fell victim to Jr’s forces.
Khaldiya, Homs, this evening.
Al Fati7a upon his soul,
May God bless his family with solace and empower them with patience.
أوغاريت || حمص :: استشهاد البطل عبد المهيمن ابن عبدالله السيوفي في حي الخالدية

July 16th, 2011, 3:26 pm

 

jad said:

I guess someone forgot to read alfatiha for those four Syrians too, just reminding you of your religious duty in case you forget:
‘أستشهاد 4 أشخاص من منطقة الزهراء اليوم
الشهيد : محمد العبد لله
الشهيد : تمام محمود
الشهيد : محمد فهد عرب ( الذي أطلق فكرة أكبر هوية سورية في حمص)
حيث عثر على جثثهم في منطقة الوعر بعد التمثيل بجثثهم
بعد اختفائهم منذ ثلاثة أيام
هذا بالاضافة إلى العثور على جثة مساعد أول في الكلية الحربية
الشهيد : أحمد حسن العجي
بالقرب من طريق زيدل بعد أن مثلوا بجثته أيضاً’

July 16th, 2011, 3:35 pm

 

Aboud said:

Abughassan, you are the worst type of arm chair analyst, your feeble analysis is always way behind events. Your shabiha scum thought they could run riot in Homs. It’s not turning out the way they wanted.

July 16th, 2011, 3:36 pm

 

Revlon said:

210 Dear Abughassan,
You said:
“you want us to believe that security forces are on a campaign targeting Sunni merchants in Homs at a time when the regime is trying to calm the streets and win support?”

Are u OK?
Do u really mean that?
Could u please support your claim by showing me how and when have the regime started to calm down the street!

You are against posting rumours, but you took the opportunity to analyse your piece of rumour to draw conclusions.

I urge you to stop dilly dally and make up ur mind, like Nour has done.

July 16th, 2011, 3:37 pm

 

why-discuss said:

Security Forces Open Fire on Syrian Protesters

By ANTHONY SHADID
Published: July 15, 2011

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/16/world/middleeast/16syria.html?pagewanted=2&src=recg

….While the protests seem overwhelmingly peaceful, signs have emerged of more violence lately, underscoring a familiar theme of conflicts in Algeria and Iraq. In the absence of a genuine political process, opponents resort to arms to press their demands. Residents speak of more people buying weapons, in places like Homs, and the prices of guns rising.

A banner hung two weeks ago in a Damascus neighborhood listed names of government informers and threatened revenge. Human rights activists say they have reports of nearly a dozen informers killed and many more wounded, often gravely.

Diplomats say they believe a gas pipeline that exploded in the east this week was probably an act of sabotage and not, as Syrian officials have portrayed it, an accident….

July 16th, 2011, 3:42 pm

 

why-discuss said:

Abboud

And your analysis are brilliant as usual! Not only humor but also humility.

July 16th, 2011, 3:46 pm

 

N.Z. said:

A massacre is taking place in Homs. At this point we need neither humility, nor, humour. We want humanity to prevail.

July 16th, 2011, 3:52 pm

 

Revlon said:

Seven martyrs have fallen victims to Jr’s bruital forces today, Saturday.
Such included 7 month old baby boy Mohammad Sabbouri from Qatana
قطنا الشهيد محمد صبوري العمر7 أشهر السبت 16-7

Video Not for the faint hearted.

Al Fati7a upon their souls,
May God bless their families with solace and empower them with patience.

July 16th, 2011, 3:58 pm

 

Revlon said:

A statement from the “Union of Homs Neighbourhoods”has been posted on the Syrian revolution’s FB website.

http://www.facebook.com/Syrian.Revolution#!/photo.php?fbid=228671910506311&set=a.211582485548587.58850.211578702215632&type=1&theater

It refutes the regime’s claim of murdering three shabbeehas and urges the 3alawi brothers to remain vigilent and not fall for these rumours

July 16th, 2011, 4:06 pm

 

OFF THE WALL said:

REVLON
It is now nine victims.

July 16th, 2011, 4:15 pm

 

SALAH ADDIN said:

Abboud
You may think that you are more intelligent that most of your opponents as you stated above, but in fact you are not. You are nothing but a loud mouthpiece representing no one but yourself, patting yourself on the back, with an occasinal cheer from an Israeli who admires your style.
In one of your posts a while back, you had bragged about you being good at your craft. In another post you listed your prerequisites for a peace agreement with Israel to include a date with an Israeli celebrity and joining another Israeli actress/model and some other silly crap that only you and your Israeli admirer finds funny.
I am curious what is your craft that you bragged at being so good at? Are you a professional (paid) agent to Syria’s enemies? You sure come across as a hard working agent. Your intimate knowledge of some Israeli celebrities and their culture couldn’t have been acquired in Homs.
Was that bragging about being good at your craft and flaunting it in your post, knowing that your handlers will be monitoring it, part of your plan to ask for a raise?

July 16th, 2011, 4:48 pm

 

Tara said:

I find Abboud and Abughassan too to be smart and funny. I find Abughassan has a very high class.

Abboud, I got a bonus too per Mina from my alleged job. I really did not need the bonus but oh well. I am planning a second vacation to Tehran. I have few close Iranian friends who offered to show me around. I will be looking for a chic apartment for Bashar in Tehran. If you got your raise too and interested in visiting Iran, I would provide you names of trendy neighborhoods in Tehran so you can also look around in case I don’t find a suitable apartment.

July 16th, 2011, 5:01 pm

 

Norman said:

Did anybody hear about sectarian and dismemberment killing in Homs, i saw that on BBC World.

That might ignite Syria as id did Lebanon.in the seventies.

July 16th, 2011, 5:31 pm

 

Abughassan said:

I just can not allow myself to participate in a match of “he said,she said”. Security forces did not destroy Sunni merchants stores but kept intact other stores that belong to merchants from other sects,that is just not true,however,you can count on some security officers for acting violently and stupidly,their actions do not distinguish between citizens,this is why Syrian prisons were filled with alawi political prisoners and some of the harshest critics are alawi and Christians . I maintain my position,which coming days will tell if it was rightful,that the only exit from this mess is a gradual change of regime lead by secular opposition that is non violent and not allied with foreigners. I do not have to make up my mind,I already did: this president must go,and there is no place in Syrian politics for islamists(using a clear definition of Islamist as those who mix religion and politics and have no problem using violent means to force their views on others).
As for Nour,who I think is another secular,I can not speak on her behalf,she is articulate enough to do the job.

July 16th, 2011, 6:15 pm

 

why-discuss said:

Norman

Homs is considered, even by Ambassador Ford as a place where opposition uses violence. Shadid reported in the NYT that more guns are been sold in Homs. It has become an city in the hands of outlaws.
Which media mentions anymore the successful cleanup of armed elements in Jisr al Shorough and Deraa that are now peacefully demonstrating on friday? Same should be done with Homs.
I think more strength has to be applied anywhere the opposition is armed and uses violence. Peaceful protesters should stay home so they are not targeted.

July 16th, 2011, 6:27 pm

 

why-discuss said:

Anyone has the full list of the participants to the Istambul meeting with their titles??

July 16th, 2011, 6:31 pm

 

why-discuss said:

Abughassan

Do you think Farouk Sharaa should replace the president during the reform phase? if not who else? Someone of the Baath party or a member of the opposition, Kilo or Al Maleh.. or?

July 16th, 2011, 6:34 pm

 

Abughassan said:

I have close friends from Homs from all sects and I have relatives in Homs too. I know what is going on in Homs and I do not rely on you tube as my main source of info. Homs will follow Hama’s example if things continue to deteriorate,and the next target will be Dair Al-zour especially albukamal ,and certain areas in Greater Damascus. When people use guns to talk to each other,their brains migrate to their testicles and they lose focus. I firmly believe that an escalation of violence will only serve thugs in the regime and those hateful Islamist criminals. Do not expect me to blame either the regime or the opposition for every drop of blood that is spilled in Syria,I know better,and I also put most of the blame on the regime figures because they had the upper hand for 41 years and they failed to immunize Syria against domestic unrest and made Syria a disaster zone. The army is the secret word,not those who blog or give Speeches,,we are here to talk to each other not to distribute certificates of approval and patriotism.

July 16th, 2011, 6:48 pm

 

Abughassan said:

Farouk al-sharaa’s name was circulated as an acceptable name by the opposition,but they may have changed their mind now because they keep coming with new ideas. The opposition must give Syrians specific names and reasonable demands and deliver those demands to the person they choose to start a negotiation process that ends with Bashar’s resignation and the formation of a transitional government,but the army has to be consulted and their approval must be obtained . The army is ready to talk,just watch and see,most army officers are underpaid and did not gain much from the process of corruption and stealing,and they will do their job as long as those thugs are arrested and their arms are collected. Do not forget the regime thugs,this is an EO process ..
I have to confess that I do not have a candidate,that is why we need parties and elections. Do not be surprised if the army takes over for a period of time,I trust the army because we need a period of relative calm and order,a collapse of the state must not be allowed even if we have to start a curfew.however,I want to see Bashar leave his post, he is not qualified to lead and he is a divisive figure now.

July 16th, 2011, 7:04 pm

 

Nour said:

Just to clarify, I do not support the sudden collapse of the regime, given all the consequences it entails. In fact, it is exactly what I want to avoid. I support a peaceful transition into a SECULAR democratic civil state. However, I am seeing that the way the regime is proceeding, they are unwilling to go except through a sudden collapse and it seems they are willing to take the entire country with them. That the regime needs to go is not in question, it is the way in which it should go that is important at this point. I am still hoping that something will happen in the next few days (and the sooner the better) that will avert a disaster, but with each passing day I am becoming less and less hopeful.

Oh and Abughassan,

I am he not a she :-).

July 16th, 2011, 7:34 pm

 

Abughassan said:

Here is a truthful description of what some claimed to be an attack by government forces on Sunni-owned businesses. This is taken directly from Homsi residents,sorry to disappoint some on this blog,there is now a pattern of lying and misinformation,and I am not pointing fingers here,many Syrians were victims or participants of this uncivilized behavior,I will do my best not to copy that behavior,and if I erred,please correct me.
3 alawi civilians were kidnapped and found dead and a forth was captured by thugs and killed. Angry alawi thugs,not army or security officers,attacked stores and destroyed properties that belong to sunni merchants,this was followed by the influx of security forces. Some people automatically classify angry or violent alawi mob as security officers to make their story “spicier”. The destruction did occur but the deatails were conveniently hidden. My comment is only applicable to that particular incident(s), I am not speaking in general terms.
A number of Syrians have been killed after being accused of being informers for the regime,and some were killed as a retaliatory measure. Welcome to the Third World…

July 16th, 2011, 7:57 pm

 

daleandersen said:

Memo To: ABUGHASSAN

RE: “…I trust the army…”

Trusting the army and trusting Bashar are two sides of the same coin. The Syrian Army does not have the same character as the Egyptian Army. While the Egyptian Army is perceived as being “above the fray,” the same cannot be said of the Syrian Army.

If the Army is allowed to step in to “sort things out,” it will be to protect its own interests, which are different from those of the nation at large.

The Army is not to be trusted because, for the past forty years, it has been an instrument of the Assad Mafia…

http://playwrighter.blogspot.com/2011/07/dialogue-syrian-style.html

July 16th, 2011, 8:03 pm

 

Majed97 said:

Let’s not kid ourselves into believing that appeasing Islamists will bring calm back to Syria. Like it or not, the uprising has by now been completely hijacked by the Islamists. They will stop at nothing until their Khalifat is established. I have completely lost faith in the opposition, now that their Islamist color is exposed. Who are we kidding; their chants are purely religious; and their starting gate is always the Mosque. Secular revolutions come out of universities, factories, offices, and military; not out of places of worships yelling Allah Akbar. Until they change their chants to Souria Akbar, count me out. Like the title of the movie said: Start this revolution without me; I’ll wait for the next one…

Do you really believe Bashar’s departure will pacify the Islamists?! Think again; it will only embolden them and weaken the seculars by dividing them further. I don’t think anyone doubts the need for reform and change, but be careful what you wish for, and with whom you trust your future.

I suspect most posters on this blog are Syrian expatriates, like me, who have been away from Syria for a long time. We may have forgotten how tough that neighborhood is and how uncompromising people are in that part of the world. We are wishing for a western system of democracy in the Middle East, as those of us who live in the west saw how inclusive and progressive that system is. The only problem is tolerance and equal rights for ALL are key ingredients for such a democracy. Honestly, how many of you really believe the masses are capable of embracing such principles?

The only way to keep Syria from collapsing at this late stage of chaos is to temporarily restore the emergency law until order is restored. Only then can gradual SECULAR reforms be gradually implemented.

July 16th, 2011, 9:50 pm

 

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